a700hitter

Luckily for you that I am a self-appointed ceremonial monarch and not a dictator.

Theo is history. I'm not sure why we are debating his record. We owe him a debt of gratitude. He did a lot of great things and he never shirked accountability. Good luck to him. Now, we need to move on.

No, it wasn't. My initial argument was about responsibility and accountability. As for getting rid of him, I felt that the time was right to make a change, and they should let him him walk to the Cubs. It was convenient way for the Sox to implement their own personnel strategy. There's no reason to shoot someone when they'll voluntarily remove themselves. My argument was never premised on any active purging. They didn't want him any more. He probably told the owners what the Cubs were offering, and asked what the Red Sox had planned for him. They told him that they could not promise that he would ever get to that level with the Sox and they did not attempt to offer him anything additional to stay. Everyone left the room understanding that the Sox didn't want him to stay. The Sox owners made the choice for him. You are in serious denial if you think they wanted to move forward with Theo as their GM.

If the Cubs interest hadn't been there, he might not have been fired at this time. I believe that if had stayed, he would have been on very thin ice. However, the Cubs situation was the perfect excuse for ownership to change direction without dirtying its hands. If they thought he was the key to the franchise's future, the owners would have sweetened the pot and convinced him to stay.

You have slipped back into denial. As for the Cashman analogy, if the Yankees miss the playoffs 3 out of 6 seasons and collapse like the Sox did in September, he too will be gone. That hasn't happened to the Yankees. They win the division almost every season and they go to the playoffs every year. In Theo's tenure the Sox won the division once--the same number of times that Duquette won the division. Over Theo's 9 years, the Rays also won the division once. Believe what you want to believe. The real facts probably won't come out for years if ever. They create the public reality and release it to the press. Do you really think that someone will breach those confidences in the not too distant future? Not likely. Theo and the FO have probably inked a confidentiality agreement as well as a non-compete agreement. The FO doesn't want Theo poaching other key FO personnel. We told you that Theo was responsible, and that he would likely be gone, and he is. All the reasons why really don't matter. If he was their guy, they would have matched the Cubs offer. The Sox made the determination that they didn't want to match the offer. Believe whatever you want to believe about the circumstances of his exit, but to keep posting that you have seen no evidence that the Sox wanted him gone is making you look a little foolish and out of touch with reality.

Why would any of us have regrets? We didn't fire him or let him go. If it turns out bad, we blame the owners. It's the good thing about being a fan. Everyone, the players, the manager, the FO and the owners are ultimately accountable to us.

They are planning on having the Wild Card teams play a 1 game playoff to determine which team advances to the LDS. That would make winning the division very very important.

I think Cashman is a bit disenchanted with the Yankee ownership. He was not too happy as he disclosed that he was not in favor of signing Soriano. He may be looking to move. I'd take him in a heart beat.

Most managers are dummies, but Johnny Mac had nothing to gain if he was lying. Clemens ha proved himself to be a liar on a number of fronts, not just Congress and steroids. Remember the bat throwing incident with Piazza. He actually said he thought it was the ball. A major league pitcher would know immediately if he held a ball that was only slightly off from official size and weight. I am pretty sure that he knew he had the bat in his hand. Clemens has no credibility about anything in my book. I chose to believe Johnny mac who had nothing to gain from telling that story.

Once he's officially gone, you had better prepare for the knives to come out in the press. The Boston Red Sox spin machine will kick into gear and Theo will be blamed for all sorts of things. It's the Boston way. Stab them in the back after they walk out the door. All big business is the same when it comes to parting ways. The considerations by both parties are very similar across all industries. I have seen bigger fish than Theo get canned. It is almost always the same scenario. The public story is never that they've been fired. Here, they definitely didn't want to say that they would fire him, because that would negate the opportunity to ask the Cubs for compensation. They are saying that it could be a pretty good prospect. It's a shame, because we know how Theo coveted prospects.

Derek Lowe never got a single call from the Red Sox when he became a free agent. That could be what happens here.

I've been swimming with the business sharks for 25 years, helping them navigate the waters. I know how this stuff goes down. I don't know the particulars of what went wrong and who wants him out. I don't know if it was JH's sole decision or an organizational vote, but this is the way business organizations act when they decide to move on. If they thought Theo was still the guy to bring them back to the promised land, they'd never let him walk. Business organizations don't let their top talent walk to a competitor and if they insist on walking, they have to sign a non-compete agreement. They wish Theo no ill, but they are not looking out for his well being with this decision. This a decision driven by their desire to take the organization forward with a different GM. I know that you feel bad about this. It's understandable. You obviously admired Theo's approach a great deal, and he did many great things, but business is heartless. There's no sentimentality. I can't guarantee that the next guy will be as good or better, but the time had come to move forward from Theo.

For the same reason that they let Tito "part ways" with them and for the same reason that in my 25 years working in the Law Department of a big company that I have seen a couple of hundred memos saying that an executive decided to retire or when not retirement age "decided to pursue other endeavors" aka they were all fired. Am I being conspiratorial? No, I am not, because in everyone of those cases a severance package was involved. I work on that stuff. Our severance plan, requires an involuntary termination. To the general work population and to the press and the outside world, there has been an amicable split-- a "parting of the ways". Your not really a business guy, so you don't see this stuff. I have. Iortiz has. They want Theo out, but they don't want to hang this around his neck or lynch him publicly. They will stick to the press releases and public statements, but trust me, he got fired. Theo told Buck the other night that he'd tell him some stuff if they had a beer after the game. I think the story had to do with Casey Stengel. When he "parted ways" with the Yankees, they had a cover story that Casey had decided to retire. Casey was never one to pull a punch. When asked about it, he said: retired? Hell, I was fired. He ad just turned 70 when he got fired. The rumor was that it was due to his age. Casey said, "I'll never make the mistake of turning 70 again." Casey got fired when a vastly undermanned and outgunned Pirate team beat the Yankees in the 1960 World Series.

If they wanted to keep him, he'd be working on an extension with the Red Sox. You need to wake up. Ownership wants a change. Top organizations don't let top talent walk to competitors. They just don't. They step up and do what it takes to retain the talent. Iortiz, you may need to chime in on this. E1 is still not getting it. :dunno:

You are reading tonight's posts the way that I intended them. Unfortunately, you read my posts about accountability the wrong way. I had always wished that Theo had succeeded. I loved all of the off season moves, and I thought this would be the year. I was wrong. Theo was wrong, and there were other problems in his organization that weren't obvious to the fans until it was over. Iortiz weren't demanding his head. We were trying to inform you all that in a big business setting he would bear the responsibility and that businesses that have a disaster usually change the captain. We were right. The owners made the sound business decision here. No one else, the press nor the fans dictated this decision. It was just business. Like you said earlier, personally they like Theo, but business is business. I was right. I take no joy from it, and I wished things had worked out better in the end for Theo in Boston.

It's a blockbuster. Theo has become something of a cult hero....or... uh don't ... you see that?

Do you really think this ownership would let a blood thirsty media dictate such an important business decision? I have more respect and confidence in them than that.

Truth is often times stranger than fiction. Don't forget the 2005 Hissy Fit and the Gorilla Suit.

She wasn't going to fire Clemens after his Cy Young/MVP season. Edit: Johnny Mac did not sell out Clemens until much later. He had nothing to gain from it, which is why I believe him. If he had waited until Clemens lied to Congress, maybe Geddie would have backed up Johnny Mac and not Clemens. Geddie's defense of Clemens was always half-hearted and reluctant, but making an enemy of one of the greatest pitchers and a sure-fire HOFer would not have been a wise move by Geddie.

Fixed

A few questions: 1. Being that Theo is still under contract, would the Cubs give the Sox compensation for releasing Theo? 2. Could this this be a big bluff by Theo, looking to squeeze out LL? If so, the owners have called his bluff and Theo has left himself with no good options. 3. If Theo turns down the Cubs, do the Sox owners fire him anyway, or do they have a meeting where the owners recommend that he take the Cubs job?

Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. Maybe the owners are looking to squeeze out Luchinno. I think that LL would never be outmaneuvered by Theo. He's too damn smart for that, but maybe the owners think LL is too old for the job.

Best of luck to him.