a700hitter

When a team gets this bad and hopeless, there is almost nothing to discuss. But most of the pom pom wavers have been gone since the beginning of August. They returned briefly to discuss the huge trade.

This forum does have tendency to brand people thus making it hard for them to stick around very long. Pom pom wavers have a much better chance of staying than posters with critical analysis. Usually, banning is not rampant and many poster get away with stuff that shouldn't be tolerated. However, in a trying time like this season, there was less tolerance for negativity. I think negativity is appropriate when there is a solid basis in fact for negativity. There was absolutely no rational reason to think that Bard would be a solid starter with a mid-3's ERA, yet people posted those projections. There were plenty of facts and good reasons to believe that he would fall on his face. The posters who thought the Sox were toast on opening day are all gone with one exception. SCM is the only one left, and he probably would have been banned if he had posted more regularly. All of the pom pom wavers are still around and some are still looking for excuses, but the utter and complete failure of this team makes it almost impossible for even the most positive fanatic to find scapegoats. As some of the negative posters correctly pointed out, the organization has been poorly run in almost every aspect for several years already. This FO took over a talented roster, a competitive deep team, and after its initial notable successes they have driven the organization to the level of the teams like the Guardians and Mariners at all levels. They have returned this team to its status of the late 50's and early 1960's in a few short seasons. They had to be extraordinarily inept to manage such a precipitous fall in stature with a payroll of $170 million. Those who saw the signs and were willing to say so were denigrated as lousy fans and banned because they made us uncomfortable. There is a possibility that we could suck for a few years, because the same guys that helped to ruin the team are still in place. Maybe Cherington was not the problem and he will finally get his chance to shine. We can hope. If we suck for a few more years, we will have some pom pom wavers posting in April and May each season only to disappear when things go bad and this will be a lonely place with just a few tolerated posters who allowed to engage in critical analysis.

I don't think we need guys who will dominate, just guys that can keep us in games consistently and go into the late innings with some consistency. This would prevent the weaknesses in the pen from getting over-exposed and it would help to keep the good bullpen arms fresh. The last few years 3+ innings from the pen has been commonplace at least 4 out of 5 games. This has resulted in leaving starters in games for 7 or more runs too often, because the pen can't handle long stints with an already heavy workload. I don't think we need to get 2 studs, but rather1 good innings eater like a Mark Buerhle and 1 stud. Pitching will be available in the off season. Every off season very good pitchers change teams. :ast off season, I felt strongly that we missed the boat on Gio Gonzalez and I felt even more strongly after he signed his very reasonable 5 year extension. That guy is a tremendous value with his current contract. Instead, we decided to go pick from the trash heap.

Oh s***, my bad. i never clicked on October. Finishing the season against us shifts the advantage back to the Skanks. Damn it!

I just looked at the schedules for the team's in contention. The Yankees schedule at first looks easier than Baltimore's schedule, but the O's play us 6 times (the Yankees only play us 3 times). We will probably roll over in all 6 games against the O's. Tampa also gets us six times. The team with the toughest schedule is the A's. They have to play the Angels (4), Baltimore (3), Detroit (3), Yankees (3), Texas (4) and Seattle (4).

If they miss the playoffs, let them whine about that one call. They'll just look like jackasses. Good calls, bad calls they even out over 162 games. It pisses them off tonight, but if the O's win the Division it will be because they played better over the course of the 162 game schedule. The bad call will just be a whiny excuse.

It's not that bad. It's just a regular season game. Joyce's call denied Gallaraga history.

After tonight, we should be in undisputed possession of last place. To those who asked earlier in the season whether people seriously thought the Red Sox were a last place team, I think you have your answer.

Yep, he was safe, but the ump spared the yanks bullpen from humiliating themselves for a second night in a row.

Now that would have been worth watching.

I think the only two teams that he hits against are the Yanks and the Red Sox.

We are just guessing and basing our opinions on personal like and dislike. The problems are all throughout the organization. It is up to the guys at the top to fix it. If the problem is at the top, we will suck for a while longer.

And if they don't do it right, we don't have to wait?

Hopefully, we never see the Japanese National Treasure ever again.

Just because you can't get rid of him doesn't mean that he isn't the problem. Ask Met fans how they feel about the Wilpons.

I never put those words in your mouth. I would have Morales and Doubs fight it out for the last rotation spot with Lackey. The losers become depth options and long relievers. You think they should both be in the rotation. I disagree. One of them makes it. The other is a depth option. I'm not saying to get rid of either of them, and I am not saying that you think they are aces. I've had enough discussion of these two guys. They are not a big issue either way.

Who is talking about letting him go?

I'm not knocking Doubront. He's a bottom of the rotation pitcher. I don't see him have a ceiling any higher than that. That's not a knock on him. I think that is where most baseball people would project him. I disagree with you if you think either are top of the rotation type guys.

Pitching is this team's biggest problem, and I agree with you that the system is light on good pitching. If we don't have it in the system, I don't see there being an alternative to getting it elsewhere through trades or other acquisitions. I'm not reading anything hopeful from you with regard to the pitching. Hitting has not and will not be a problem.

"denial-ridden high roller strategy"? With what suggestion of mine do you disagree with? As far as denial, I was on record pretty darn early (actually before the season started) that the current team was not going to be very competitive.

They are really good players, top performers with big potential. Morales and Doubs don't have big potential. They have potential to be the #5 pitcher on a good team. If Doubront and Morales are both in the starting rotation to start next season or any season, we will be rooting for a 4th place team. If you disagree, fine. Sig it if you want. Be forewarned that people who sig me with the intent if ridiculing me look like asses in the end.

He has had a less talented group than Tito had and September 2011 was worse than what have seen thus far. I think we have a good chance of being worse this September, but the talent level is not even close to what it was last September.

I didn't say that we stunk because of them. There were plenty of reasons why we stunk. I said that we stunk with them. They are not part of the answer.

We already have these guys. We stunk with them. I don't expect that they will every be a lot better than they have been. They are #5's. Neither is a #4 on a winning team. They are 5 inning pitchers who will tax the pen 2 out of every 5 games, so the top 3 guys would have to go deep into games on a regular basis. Lester suffers from high pitch counts and he doesn't work deep into games anywhere often enough. While we don't need aces 1-5 (it should be pointed out that we have none), it helps if the guys at the bottom can eat innings. Doubs and Morales are not innings eaters.

Ghere was no right guy for this team. The organization stinks from top to bottom. They s*** the bed for Tito last September in a mind-blowing record setting manner. His low energy style would not have had any better results with this group. I get that you don't like Bobby V, but this train wreck was not all on him-- not even close. He will get fired, because managers just don't survive seasons like this. The stench of losing needs to be cleansed and the easiest place to start is with the manager.