seabeachfred

Taking this post from where this thread begun by SCM, it is obvious that except for press butt kissers like Edes and Silverman, the Boston Press is finally laying into messrs Henry, Lucchino, and Werner and not a minute too soon. In fact, it should have happened a lot earlier because this trio along with Epstein and Francona were given a boatman's holiday for years, and to refresh memories that mostl likely don't need to be refreshed, the last four seasons have been pure crapola. The last two have been a debacle. I get pissed off when some of the pollyannas on all the boards keep harking back to 2004 and 2007 as if that should placate all of us from here on in. Bu@@sh@@!!!!!!!!! Two third place finishes in succession and a weak second place finish in 2009 won't cut with fans who demand more and expect more. I'd like to believe that after the assault from the press and TV and radio media, coupled with this season's disgraceful finish, the bogus trio at the top will get their butts in gear and start doing the right thing by hiring a tough manager, getting rid of the sacred cow relics, rid ourselves of the excess personnel garbage and clean up the clubhouse so that maybe we can win a division once in awhile. It's my opinion only but if this season didn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth I have to question just how deep your affection for the Red Sox is. We should all be pissed off.

I live in the metropolitan Los Angeles area and though I have no use for the Dodgers and haven't since they left Brooklyn (I'm originally from Queens), I tried to see Koufax pitch as often as I could because there was always a chance he could throw a no-hitter. From 1962-1966 he could rank right up there with the greatest pitchers in baseball history, and as 700 pointed out, back then pitchers like him, Maloney, Gibson, Marichal and Drysdale pitched over 300 innings a year, they completed the vast majority of their games, and they pitched every fourth day instead of five. Get the impression I'm not a big fan of these damn pitch counts. Beckett is a six or seven innings pitcher but I really believe he could complete a helluva lot more games than he does and that goes for Lester and Bucholz as well. Nolan Ryan has brought that mindset to the Texas Rangers with impressive results. My guess is that with so much money tied into contracts pitchers and their agents don't want to risk an injury to their meal tickets, nor do they want to do what Koufax did after every game his last two years-----soak his elbow in a tub of freezing water. Of course they won't win 26 and 27 games as he did those last two seasons either.

The $50K is now chump change to Epstein, but an apology to the fans of the Red Sox might have been an appropriate gesture because he leaves our team is disarray after three or four years of some of the most miserable personnel moves imaginable. I guess we should all be grateful that we can turn the page and move on. My own take is that we will not miss Epstein very much at all, and Francona we won't miss at all. I wonder though how you people out there are feeling about the World Series? I just have no real interest in it because my entire focus is on what the Red Sox are going to do this winter to help us get out of the gutter.

Now that Epstein has been introduced officially as Chicago's Chief of Baseball Operartions, that part is a done deal and he is finally one (thank God). The bummer is that our leverage with the Cubs is done as well and I'm hearing that Selig might have to step in and settle the hash. I lean to getting Matt Garza or Brett Jackson, but frankly I think that is a reach right now. Good, though, if it could happen.

Is it possible that Henry is paralyzed by indecision right now? It seems that way to me. I heard that on Tuesday Cherington will be officially named GM; maybe then things will start moving. He either will name a manager as the World Series ends or this soap opera plays itself deep into November. I think the board of execs are arguing over what kind of manager they want to hire, but here's a tip for them. Make whoever you choose the complete antithesis of Francona. Personally I think we need a guy like Bobby Valentine but my collegues on two other boards don't like the guy and I find few who agree with me on that. However, in my opinion that is exactly the type we need. Just jog your memory back to ST, the first 12 games and that dismal September to see how a milk and cookies manager can help bring ruin to a team.

Elk, I don't know who the people are who say "they say", but since your sources are better than mine since you right on top of things in Boston, if what you just wrote is true it simply speaks volumes just how out of touch and out of sorts this 2011 Red Sox ensemble was this season. I take it he went to FrancoMa since he was on the field. Apparently Fetch blew him off to start the debacle. Then again, many of us had little faith in the guy to begin with, but again if this is true the front office had better hire a manager with balls who will read the riot act to the players that they had better stay in shape next season. That is why naming a new manager as soon as possible would be in the best interests of the ball club. The new skipper has to make his mark and lay down a set of rules that will prevent this season's debacle from happening. As each day goes by it becomes more and more evident just how much damage from a lack of responsible leadership was wrought by FrancoMa and Epstink.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

VA Sox Fan, are you the lady I met at Fort Myers during Spring Training in 2007?:dunno::dunno:

Vic PM'd me and said he gave you a "four day time out". Please Brennan, don't let that make you want to leave Sawsheads. We need our whole crew there, and now that all of them are on here we might recruit some new members to post there as well as here like we're doing. As for wiping out five years I can only surmise that he might have wanted both boards operating on an even keel since a lot of the old posts were written by members of the new board. Just a guess, though. I'll tell you this....no one I know on this board would pick that new pollyanna site over ours. Like TalkSox we're a real baseball board where everygoes goes and usually does.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I've come to the conclusion that Lackey has to go because he has apparently had a deleterious effect on Lester and most likely on Beckett. The Beckett thing I can't figure out; why someone could influence him when he was around four years before Lackey arrived. Of course it is easy to jump on Lackey because he has sucked for two seasons and he is an easy target. It begs the question, though, as to what Henry will do with him. I don't see him eating that $45 million contract, yet the consensus is that he has to go. There are a lot of areas that need fumigating this winter. A new manager, a new pitching coach, and, yes, a new medical staff and new physical strength and conditioning staff, and that comes before we start ejecting the relics like Varitek and Wakefield, rejects like McDonald, malingerers like Drew, and excess refuse like Miller. I notice there are a lot of angry people on this board right now, but I would bet dollars to donuts that it would be a whole different ball game if we were in the WS right now instead of scattering to the four winds. If John Henry is listening in, get the hell to work and start doing the right things.

If what 700 posted is true then that settles the hash. However, I heard that Commisssioner Selig is about to intervene in the case because of the Red Sox insisting the Cubs' offer of compensation is the dregs. Maybe they settled on it and will announce it on Tuesday. We shouldn't accept garbage for Epstein, but on the other hand I don't want this guy back in Boston. I soured on this guy long ago and am convinced he is a miserable judge of talent and has saddled us with a group of players over the years who have been less than desirable------Pena, Lugo, Drew, Snyder, Delcarmen, Seanez, McDonald, just to name a very few.

Bravo 700!!!!! But why did you stop there. The same can be said for the regular players who looked painfully out of shape this year and once again were ringed with injuries....Youkilis, Drew, Lowrie, as well as the pitchers. We need a new medical staff to correctly diagnose what appears to be an injury, some the clowns we currently employ have failed miserably at. A new strength and conditioning team is also a must because we can't win squat if our team can't stay on the field. And later to that 100 pitch count. No less an authority that Nolan Ryan pilloried that when he took over as President of the Texas Rangers. Their pitchers now go deep into games and last time I checked they've gotten to the WS two years in a row. We also need tough pitching coach who will push the pitchers, something ancient Curt Young either couldn't or wouldn't do.:(:(

I never thought we would get much from the Cubs because I agree that they hold all the leverage. My fear was that they would just say chuck it and tell us to keep Epstein which to me would be debacle of the first order. I just want the guy gone so we can move on and start clearing the debris that he and his flunkie manager saddled us with. We have a lot of work to do to rid ourselves of the excess trash and the sooner we get to this task the better it will be for all of us.

Lackey's not going anywhere unless John Henry is willing to eat a big portion of the that contract and I doubt the mousy owner has the will to do that. The only thing I know for certain is if Lackey is still with us next season the fans are going to let him have it with all the artillery it can muster. If he stays with the Red Sox he better somehow try and find his stuff that he lost since he left the Angels.

That's what was most appalling about Crawford's performance this past season. Not only was his hitting piss poor but he took his hitting problems out to the field with him, and that spells LOSER to me. I know the guy is a hard work and is not a loser but he has a lot to live up to next year and he owes the team, the fans and especially himself a much better performance in 2012. It would be a big boost to the team if he could return to near the form he showed with the Rays in 2010. We are going to need good players and leaders next season to set a positive example to make up for how miserable we looked last month, and a Crawford performing at his best level is one of the way to make that come about.

My fear is that Lucchino might become clever by half and blow it all because of his hard ass stance. Ricketts could just say the hell with it, take Epstein back and hire someone else permanently or appoint someone in the interum. That means we would be stuck with this bum for another year. Enough!!!! Nobody I know of wants him back, he has burned his bridges with the fans, the press and the players by running out on them after running the team into the ground with his miserable handling of the roster the past few years. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't be worried but these are not normal circumstances. We have an owner who has been exposed as little more than a walking moron who actually offered the guy a three year extention. That only means to me that Henry hasn't a damn clue of the damage that has been done, nor, for the matter, the work that is ahead of the Red Sox to get them back up to speed----and you can't do that with Epstein around. Just get rid of him.

Once again Prune Face Henry is dithering while Fenway is burning. The Red Sox medical staff has been a disgrace for the past few seasons. It has been one misdiagnoses after another and in the meantime we lost Youk for two weeks in 2009 when it was just a one day or less bruise, lost Ellsbury for the whole of 2010 when they screwed up his medical chart and this past season it was Bucholz who wasn't given an MRI by these boobs when he first complained about back discomfort. We have a lot on our plates this off season but one thing that can be done quickly if Henry gets his head out of his rear end is to jettison the medical staff and hire one that is competent enough to keep our players on the field next season, and that goes double for the strength and conditioning staff. There should be programs in place to make certain that Red Sox players are in the proper physical shape to enter a season where they will have a lot to atone for, not the least of which is overcoming their sad and sorry reputation as a laughing stock of the league---a title they earned with their choke job last month.

The WAR and VORP and all that other stuff makes my head feel like it's exploding. To me I want to know what a person's batting average is and what it is with runners in scoring position. To batters hitting in the # 3-6 spots I want to know how many runs they've driven in. That's what wins games. Sure OBP is important but I want a solid hitter up there with the game on the line and if a guy is hitting over 300 most likely he is the one I want up there. I know there are those of you on this board that are big Bill James supporters but I think the guy is mainly bogus because none of his stats can read what kind of guts, heart and balls a batter has when he steps up to the plate with the game on the line. I look at BA and RBI's and RISP and I have a pretty good idea if I have the right man up there.

If you're referring to me X1, I dismiss no young pitcher on the Rays. My point was to show how paltry our young pitching prospects are. It seems when they get to Double or Triple A they seem to go backwards. Look at Michael Bowden. Three years ago Peter Gammons was calling him the best pitching prospect in the minor leagues and now he is hardly worth a can of beans in a trade. We have to do a much better job of developing pitchers than we've done the past few years. After Papelbon and Lester we seemed to have hit a wall in the development and advancement department, though I should add Bard to that small list of pitchers who have made themselves valuable to the Red Sox.

700---On his resume Epstein is going to be the one listed as the GM on those 2004 and 2007 Red Sox teams that won the World Series those years, so I could be accused of splitting hairs on that trade I mentioned. To be fair, though, I am aware that on the 2004 team while Theo's trades for Roberts, Menkiewitz (sic), Cabrera, and his signings of Ortiz, Millar, Mueller and Arroyo were significant in that title, we should also give some credit to Douquette because he signed Ramirez, Damon, drafted Nixon and traded for Varitek so there is credit to be handed out on all fronts. My complaint with Epstein is that his FA signings the past few years have been horrible, and even though the drafts have been lauded there is a disconnect there as well as we seemed to be focusing on LH hitting outfielders and maybe not enough young pitching prospects. Right now we have Renaudo as a potential rotation man in a year or two, but Doubrant, Weiland, Britton and others have taken giant steps backwards and the way I see it we either are going to have to trade for an established starter or go through the FA market again, only this time with better luck. Even if Josh, Jon and Clay come back real strong next season, there is still a void at the back of the rotation. I think we can sneak by with some different No. 5 men not named Wakefield, but a #4 is absolutely necessary if we want to be playing into deep October next year or anytime soon.

Jung---700 brought up the medical staff and not a minute too soon if you ask me. He sees as I do that this group has been less than stellar in diagnosing injuries correctly, nor have they and their conditioning cousins been able to keep our players on the field. The fact is we have a large laundry list of problems to solve this off season and while two of them have been abated in the dismissal of Francona and Epstein's fleeing to Chicago, we need a new medical and conditioning team and only if Henry and Lucchino were totally blind could they not see this. Then we have to be certain to hire a manager 180 degrees removed from Francona and it would be even better if we could hire a GM from outside the organization that doesn't have a taint of Epsteinism on his body. Only then can we get down to ridding the team of the driftwood and getting the players needed to make us forget what a miserable winter of discontent we're all going to suffering the next few months.