seabeachfred

SoxSport, I've decided Dave Martinez should be our new manager as well. Working closely with John Maddon I'm sure a lot of TB's manager has rubbed off on him. As for Jarrod, remember this was his biggest workload in years and it stands to reason he would tire at the end, but he needs to improve his OBP. I think the guy is capable of hitting 20 homers and driving in 65-70 runs but all of this could be a moot point. On the other board I have been talking up Ryan Lavarnway for the past two seasons. I think this guy is the real thing and could put Salty on the bench. At the ver least Lavarnway can DH, play some first and some in the outfield because he has played those spots before. What I may be seeing from some posters, and I hope I am very very wrong, is that they might be hinting that we need to bring back Jason Varitek for another season....NO WAY JOSE, NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!! He and Wakefield have come to the end of the road and it is time for them to depart.

Sox Sport---Word is out that Dave Martinez is high on the list of a potential manager for our team, and we was Joe Maddon's right hand man for years. I'm certain if he is hired he will bring a little derring-do to the Red Sox. Just to let the other teams know that we have the potential to steal, hit and run, run and hit and take the extra base, is enough to allow them to worry about more than just watching the batter. FrancoMa was a disaster in this regard but what might not be too well known was that he was the same way in his four dismal years in Philadelphia, a league where more small ball and a running game are more often emphasized. Well, we will see. When you have Ellsbury, Pedroia and Crawford you have speed. Hell, use it. It is another weapon for us and could help win some of those close games we've been losing the past few years.

That's one of the frustrating things being a Red Sox fan. They don't think the stolen base is a good offensive weapon and they turn that misdimeanor into a felony by saying the stolen base used against them isn't important. To be that pure bulls@it!!!! There were figures presented to show the run differential that works against us with that stupid philosophy. We have some speed now and we need to utilize it---stealing, run and hitting, hit and running, taking the extra base. FrancoMa was brutal in this regard because he was a slave to the station-to-station philosophy that only led us into leading the league in hitting into double plays or a close second year after year. Don't give them one out, give them two. One other point with this wrong headed philosophy. If the opposition knows you are playing that kind of a plodding game their pitchers and fielders can concentrate only on the batter and have nothing else to worry about. A manager like Maddon has his team doing everything under the sun to win and that forces the pitcher to worry about the base runner(s) as well as the batter and the fielders must do the same. I hope the new manager will see how bad this has worked against us and change the thinking. If it turns out to be David Martinez, Maddon's right hand man, it should. But, please, not another FrancoMa type.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Uh Oh, maybe I'd be better served if I didn't mention this, but it is part of Red Sox history even if I was on the opposite side of it in 1986. Tomorrow it will be the 25th Anniversary of that unnverving day which might be the worst day of all for Red Sox fans. Boston blew a three run lead and lost the series to the Mets. It happened to be my 46th birthday and being a nominal Mets fan back then (born in Queens and live their my first 14 years) I thought it was a great thing. Who knew???? Flash forward 18 years. I had my Red Sox epihpany four years earlier and I see the Red Sox win their first World Series in 86 years on my 64th. I am in New York riding the rails with my friends to celebrate the 100th Anniversary of the New York Subway (October 27, 1904), and this is the second best place to be. The next day I walked down 5th Avenue and then 42nd Street like I was the king of New York, getting hoots and howls all along the way. I even stopped into the Yankee store on 42nd to the glare and stare of those working that day. I can say without a second's hesitation that the 2004 birthday present beat the 1986 one all to hell. I might have overdone the celebration bit and sticking it to the Yankees who I had despised since I was seven. I think possibly the Big Guy up there may have wanted to bring me back to earth because on the 29th heading for the airport I got hit with a case of sciatica and layed me up for about seven weeks. For the further record, believe it or not, when I see films of that Buckner miscue today I cringe and change channels even though back then I thought it was a good thing. As I like to say, go figure.

From my own personal experience I would concur with great prejudice that a great back of the bullpen is a necessity for any team with aspirations of winning a title. This season we were 0-6 and I flew to Boston for the Red Sox Home Opening Series, one of the treats I reserve for myself. It was the Yankees and we needed to win that series. We did 2-1 and in each game Papelbon came in the ninth inning to big fanfare from the loudspeakers and proceeded to nail the Yankees one-two-three on both occasions. Please don't anyone try and tell me that we can survive without a great closer and 8th inning set-up man, not to mention a good seventh inning pitcher if we can get one. We only have to turn back to 2003 and Epstein's ridiculous "closer by committee" debacle. Remember that my friends? I can't exactly remember how many games that little plan cost us, but it was over ten by the end of June and it cost us the division and home field advantage in the ALCS. We need a good bullpen led by a solid closer and that is Papelbon.

MVP78---You're most likely right on this, but the thread is called "THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID", and many of us are doing that right now. I suppose in a short time we will wear ourselves out and turn to more important matters like what do we do for a better 2012 when he celebrate the 100th anniversary of Fenway Park. Wouldn't a title of some kind, Division, ALCS or WS be a great way to celebrate it? Remember, the Yankees opened two YS, in '23 and in 2009 and they celebrated those openings with WS Titles. I'd like to say WHAT ABOUT US but that might sound silly. Still I think the clamor will die down and the guy who started the thread will delete and we can move on. Frankly, I'm about spent talking about this season anyway. i guess you are too.

I mentioned earlier that Cherington was one of the two men who engineered the Beckett-Lowell trade when Boy Blunder went gorilla on us. That was the key of our winning the 2007 World Series. I say give the guy a chance and see what he does this winter, but just for the record here are some suggestions. 1. Resign Papelbon and keep Bard in the bullpen along with Aceves. A strong bullpen is a must. Remember we last had the most effective bullpen in 2007 and we all know how that worked out. 2. Sign Harden and Bedard--one could be No. 5 starter and another long man in the bullpen with Aceves. 3. Either trade or sign as a FA a real quality starter who could be a No. 4 or a No. 3 man in the rotation. 4. Try to sign a couple of bullpen men and hope that this time we don't draw blanks. Keep Wheeler, though. 5. Get a RH hitting rightfielder unless we don't sign Ortiz, then we can put Kalish out there and give a good long look to Ryan Lavarnway who I think has the makings of a very solid RH power hitting who could catch, DH and play some outfield (which is what he was).

Interesting thread guys, but may I add my two cents worth into it? Our bullpen was questionable as it was this past season. We need Papelbon resigned and Bard with his head out of his ass and pitching up to his capabilities, some he did from May through August and failed miserably in during April and September. We need both those guys in the bullpen and we need Aceves down there as well. Here is my idea.....Beckett, Lester, Buchholz----add a fourth solid starter through trade of FA and sign two pitchers to give the rotaton depth. Aceves and one of the extra starters can be long men in the bullpen until needed for sudden doubleheader make-up games or whatever. Harden and Bedard would be two guys healthy might be good additions, but we need a solid fourth starter and there is where I go off the track. Just who that guy might be I'm not certain of, but either by trade or FA we need that No. 4 guy. Maybe Oswalt????

Just to refresh yours, mine and everyone else's memory we went the buy low and pray blew up in our faces the second half of the 2009 season with the likes of Brad Penny and way over-the-hill John Smoltz. It didn't work then and it won't work next year. Let's assume that our "Big Three" are firing on all cylinders next season ( reminds me of the song High Hopes, doesn't it?), what to do for the next two spots. Well face it, we need a solid No. 4 starter and there are a few out there that's better than what we have right now in the minors. We need a solid rotation and a crack bullpen or we'll be talking about this same crap next winter. Whether Cherington wants to admit it or not, a big trade or a solid free agent signing or two is badly needed. That is why I want Papelbon resigned if it comes down to a choice of between him and Ortiz. Our offense ought to be good again next year but without solid starting pitching and a good bullpen we're spinning or wheels. Good to hear we won't have to worry about Lackey or Matsuzaka next season. That' what I call successful addition by subtraction. Next on the dump list....Wakefield and Varitek.

700, I'd like those people who think those of us who are critical of what went down this year to tell us just how we are supposed to act in the face of the recent debacle. I was off this board for over three years when I got into a snit with a couple of jokers from a since defunct Dodger board and thought it best if I made myself scarce for awhile. For that reason I don't want to start coming on too strong, but I have to tell you that on that other board I post on it split in two because we had the same breakdown we have here---one camp not willing to allow a mismash season to go without rebuttal and the other willing to accept the party line that things will get better because the front office says it will. The FO and the media were complicit in papering over the problems that many of us saw with clarity early in the season and we don't want a replay of this again. Every time I go in my Red Sox baseball room I cringe looking at those pictures and asking myself how the hell could they just suck as they did. What those other people must realize is that I'm sure, you, SCM and the rest of the tough talking posters are literally dying inside to see what happened to our team. Someone mentioned WS or bust is our motto; it isn't mine. What I would like is to see us win an AL East Divison for a change and then take our chances. We've won exactly ONE the past 16 years and that is as bogus as anything I can think of.

I wonder if those people who get on us for speaking what we know to the truth think that we really enjoy knocking the Red Sox. We don't, but how can a fan stomach what happened this past September without having just a little bile in their stomach? You know, on that other board many of us posted on it got so hot that the board was split into two forums---the Realists or Jacobins as we called ourselves, and the Pollyannas or Ball Washers as they were referred to. Hard to fathom how those types will not allow us to have our say. We certainly weren't angry in 2004 or 2007 were we? This year was miserable for all Red Sox fans; some can take it with a grain of salt, others can't. I can't, and I want to see how the front office rectifies it this winter off season. I heard Cherington on ESPN and though talk is cheap I was impressed with the man. You might remember SCM that when our old friend Epstein went gorilla on us in the fall of 2005Cherington took over for that hiatus and together with that advisor whose name I keep forgetting made that blockbuster trade for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell---a trade Epstein later admitted he would not have made. That trade won us the 2007 World Series two years later so for that reason I want to cut the new GM some real slack and give a chance to right the ship that took on water while Epstein fiddled in his last years in Boston.

700 Hitter---High tail it out of town he did, but as SoxSport intimated it might have been a case of John Henry finally growing tired of him and wanted him out of town. It puts a lot of heavy lifting on Cherrington's shoulders and maybe we may have to cut him a little slack since our rotation and bullpen is in disarray and we don't know if ownership is interested in a big spending spree this winter. I think we definately need another solid starting pitcher (Darvish maybe?), two good relievers and finally rid ourselves with those who time is up........Varitek, Wakefield, McDonald, Drew and Miller. Don't get me wrong, I am not writing off next season but expectations will start off a great deal more modest. I was one of the guilty ones who got carried away with our new acquisitions last winter but saw during the dismal 12 game losing streak in ST that we could have trouble along the way. Of course, I never envisioned that kind of a collapse. Did you or any other person out there?:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

We're still battling over what constitutes success and what constitutes failure. For my part the word ALMOST is like an ephitet. Coming close just doesn't cut it from where I sit, or as my platoon sergeant told me in basic training decades ago.....close only counts in horseshoes, love and grenades.

Cask, the last two years have been total failure. Hell, we didn't make the playoffs and failed to even win a division title the past four years. I think 2009 was a failure as well. We were three up at the ASB and went completely into the tank as bumbling Francona kept running out Smoltz and Penny until they were both released after getting battered by the Yankees, by then way too late. There could be an argument that 2008 might be a success but not to me. We didn't win the division and with Francona miserable connivance lost the ALCS to a weaker Tampa Bay team. I guess it is in each person's own mind what constitutes success and failure. Take for instance the division. I followed the Red Sox since August of 2000 and in that time we have won only ONE division title. That constitutes failure. We've two AL Titles and two WS and that constitutes some real success, but the last four years put together do not add up to anything I want to talk about....even the 2008 ALCS which I think we blew away as early as the second game of that series when Francona couldn't divest himself of his pre-game plan to let Beckett go seven innings even though the guy was injured most of the season and he was getting blasted around that evening.

Paladios, I don't want you and 700 to get into a tuff because I didn't use a better choice of words. I outlined to you why I thought 2008 was disappointing, but I should have focused on the last three. I think most of us would agree they were crapola; 2008 might not have been, but it was close the way things played out.

Thanks 700; were sympatico on that. Yes, we should have won the title that year and didn't partly for the reasons I outlined to Palodios, but he did catch me saying that 2008 was a crapola year. I guess it wasn't if you are willing to overlook the fact that we should have won that year since we had a better team than the Rays. We were outmanaged that year badly, and before someone calls me out on that, it is only MY personal opinion.

Damn it Palodios, I kept telling myself to say the last THREE years instead of four because some one would call me on that, but didn't take my own advice. I still remember 2008 very disappointingly because I felt we should have won the division that year and gotten home field advantage in the ALCS. There were two crucial series with the Rays that September where we won the first game and lost the next two, games that we should have won. If you remember, Francona has numerous times to lay down a bunt to move a runner, try stealing on Rays pitchers that were slow to the plate, call for a hit and run once in awhile. Instead he played his dull and unimaginative station-to-station baseball and we would up hitting into a number of rally killing double plays. In the ALCS, after we won the first game, Francona said Beckett would have to go seven no matter what and we wound up blowing two or three leads as Josh was getting wracked up. Later on the same rally killing double plays gave the Rays a chance to win the game in extra innings. I fully soured on Francona that season and to me that year was a disappointment. Long explanation but I owed you that because you caught me in what could be a somewhat bogus statement. Have a great day.

The Rangers had ten complete games; we had two. Ten is not an abnormal amount but it is five times what two is, and we have a real head twister here, and some of you hit it right on the head---and is one reason why I never had much use for Francona as a field manager. Too often he would lift a starting pitcher out after six innings, seven tops, if the pitch count got to 100-105 even if they were pitching a shutout or one run ball. I saw this with Beckett at least a half-dozen times in Boston and Anaheim, and San Diego. Yet, he was woefully slow in pulling a pitcher who was getting his pants ripped off (think Wakefield, Weiland, Miller, take your pick) until the pitch count reached between 90-100. That is why I treat lightly on this because the arguments can go either way, but I think the philosophical bent plays a big part in this. My guess is the Rangers' number of complete games will continue to rise, albeit slowly, while ours won't rise as fast unless we get a manager who knows how to use a pitching staff, something I do not believe Francona was adept at very well.