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Why would you want to trade anything of value for Willis at this point? I understand he is playing with an awful team, but how does the team effect his BAA or ERA. Good pitchers may lose a decision due to lack of offense, or errors made behind him, but in the month of May so far hes given up 30 hits and walked 6 in 14 innings. He always kind of reminded me of Hideo Nomo. Nomo was very good early in his career becuase of such a unique pitching style, but when hitters became comfortbale with him, he became an average pitcher. If you compare their first three seasons, they are very similar with great success. But Nomo is now at 123-109 with a 4.21 for his career. http://baseball-reference.com/w/willido03.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/nomohi01.shtml After three seasons Nomo was 43-29 with a 3.33 ERA After three seasons Willis was 46-27 with a 3.32 ERA Talk about similarity.

Aubrey Huff is a 1B, 3B, LF, RF.....all of which below average. He is a glorified DH, someone who should be a DH on a good team, but has to dawn the leather for bad ones with other people who cannot play in the field (Johnny Gomes). If they thought they were having nightmares about Matsui, Bernie, or Melky in the OF, wait till they get a load of this stone hand garbage. Not to mention he hit .261 with a .321 OBP last season and is hitting a cool .156 with 0 homers since returning from the DL this season. Pick your poison because TB will rape the Yankees FO for prospects considering they wanted God for Lugo during this previous offseason. As for Torri Hunter or Shannon Stewart (both of MIN), while they are unlikely to make the playoffs because of Chicago, and the fact that the Wildcard will most likely come from the east, I doubt they deal either one till the all-star break when multiple teams will be calling them looking to deal so it ensures that they are getting the best possible deal for either one.

BTW...im not saying he should get suspended either, I just have a feeling he will. It was very uncharacteristic of him, he is generally a professional.

After his third strikeout, he tossed his bat....and as the ump was ejecting him he tossed his helmet simutaneously in the umpires direction. It landed at his feet.

How many games will Bernie be suspended for the incident on 5/9/06? Delmon young was suspended for throwing the bat at the ump, and that helmet was definately in the vicinity of the man in blue. Whats the Verdict?

Scoreless inning 5/9/06 Looks like the lead was "Seanez proof".....nice to see him do well, I'm pulling for him.

MIKEY TWO BASES strikes again...last 8 hits have been doubles, frigin unbelievable.

Hillenbrand also makes a helluva lot more than Choi and Snow and would bitch and moan sitting on the bench behind Mikey two bases and the Greek God. Plus, all three are right handed, and Shea doesnt play as good of defense as either of them. Not gunna happen.

The point was, we werent giving up a bag of balls. To say Arroyo had little value is a little ridiculous. Middle of the road ERA, won 14 games, has a bargain contract. He was a very valuable trading piece. However, if you are saying we stole Pena for Arroyo, I do agree with that, I think everyday he is getting better and better, but I dont think that Arroyo was invaluable.

A little "Sweet Chin Music" :thumbsup:

Ok, I am outta here for the night, It was nice debating with you, I see your points Alexander, I just hope you see mine as well...It depends on what you are looking for in a hitter I guess. It was nice discussing this with you, I will catch ya later.

Actually, these were the statistics I posted. .332 Career Hitter .377 Career OBP .819 Career OPS 190 SB in 5 years (38 per season) All time leader for hits in a season (262) 1130 career hits in 5 seasons (226 per season, INCREDIBLE) Lets compare the stats that I provided keeping in mind that I do agree that Dunn is the superior power hitter, so he obviously hits more HR and has more RBI's. DUNN .248 career hitter .383 career OB%, .06 greater than Ichiro, so no... not greatly larger .901 career OPS....well thats a little strange, for a big hulking power hitter he is only .82 greater in the BIG power hitter category. We wont bring up the speed issue. Most hits in a season for Dunn, 151...Ichiro averages 226 In 4+ seasons he has 564 hits.....Ichiro almost had that over a 2 year period. What does the rest of major league baseball think? Well Ichiro has been IBB 86 times in his career....a leadoff hitter, IBB'd 86 times, while the big hulking slugger has been IBB'd 48 times in his career. Lets go further. Doubles....Ichiro has 135, Dunn has 127...Triples? 41 to 6. Strikeouts? Ichiro has fanned 313 times in his career, Dunn has fanned 733 times. The only thing that clearly seperates them is the fact Dunn hits more HR.....thats it. That leads to the higher OPS, because its clear ichiro has outhit him in every other statistical category....singles, doubles, and triples all go to ichiro. The HR attributes to the higher OPS and Dunn also plays with a helluva better lineup than Ichiro. Ichiro has miserable ball players around him in that lineup.

HMMMM I believe I ALSO posted his offensive numbers, which overall are better than most LHH in the game......find one with better all around numbers besides Ortiz. You cant, and wont. Therefore my initial statement was correct regardless. Ortiz? Arguments can be made, very different approaches Giles? No Edmonds? No Giambi? No Anderson? No Hafner or Dunn like you suggested? Well all the above players are better than those two. So again No. I guess I made a mistake, because the thread is OVERALL PLAYERS, and I typed overall hitter when in fact you knew exactly what I was suggesting anyway, and replied that Ichiro was overrated when in fact he is not. Numbers wise, hes clearly one of the best combing speed, on base skills, some power (15 HR last season) and an unbelievable ability to make contact.

http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6311

Hey thanks for pointing that out, but that has no significance to my post either way, because I made the point in many other areas which you convienently left out to bait me. So thanks anyway.

They arent half the player Ichiro is. Not even close.

I think you are ridiculous. AL Silver Slugger Award (OF) AL Glove Glove Award (OF) American League Rookie of the Year American League Most Valuable Player AL Glove Glove Award (OF) AL MVP (Voting Rank: #17) AL Glove Glove Award (OF) AL MVP (Voting Rank: #23) AL Glove Glove Award (OF) AL MVP (Voting Rank: #7) AL Glove Glove Award (OF) .332 Career Hitter .377 Career OBP .819 Career OPS 5 Time GG RF Cannon for an arm 190 SB in 5 years (38 per season) All time leader for hits in a season (262) 1130 career hits in 5 seasons (226 per season, INCREDIBLE) You are on f***in crack, the guy is one of the best players in the game, and is going to be a hall of famer when its all said and done when you consider what he did in Japan also. Hands down one of the top ten position players in the game. He completely changes the game. Overrated, what a frigin joke.

Low? We dealt a pretty valuable pitcher who is lighting up the NL....dealing a 23 year old for a proven solid big league arm is hardly suggesting Pena was of low value.

riverside.......you beat me to it, and said almost the same exact thing haha

Did you put any thought into this post? Do you HONESTLY think they are going to deal Wily Mo? After all the progress he has made since joining the team? Please tell me this is a joke. We are watching a transformation everyday much like we saw with David Ortiz three years ago. The guy is a little over 4 years removed from high school baseball and stinging the ball all over the park and playing a decent CF (for him anyway). He is 23 and has enormous talent and promise, the guy can flat out rake. They made this move with the intention that Nixon wasnt coming back. Wily Mo is not going anywhere.

We should come up with our own way of evaluating players.:thumbsup: There are many ways to analyze a player, I think people should be open to all of them. Stats are great, but like I said....generally you can tell what a player is doing wrong, or how they will perform by watching them. Stats will tell you if they are currently succeeding, but how they swing, their arm slot, their front shoulder, their footwork and their reads on balls tell you alot more about the player as a whole.

Its Scott Proctor, enough said. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/P/scott-proctor.shtml He didnt exactly light it up in the minors....EVER. The knock on him is that he sucks. Plain and simple. I dont count Myers or Villone. Villone for one, is awful and Myers is hardly considered a relief pitcher. Hes one and out. He is a "specialist". So that leaves you with Mo, and Farnsworth. And oh, by the way. Check this out: http://thebaseballcube.com/players/F/kyle-farnsworth.shtml Good one year, bad the next, good one year, bad the next....which one will he be this year? He was good last year, so that means that there is at least a chance he will suck this year.

We both posted over at SOSH. We know it very well, probably better than you do. Fact is, it gets old, and I think we are tired of ALWAYS looking at it through saber minds, which is why we came back here. I think sabers are the ones who have a hard time looking at the game with an outside view becuase they are too busy calculating the thousands of formulas to back up arguments. You can find any mathmatical significance if you look hard enough and nobody has been able to put together a formula which equals a good ballplayer, or a good team. Look at Oakland for instance, Billy ball gets them into the playoffs, nothing more. What has Mark Bellhorn done since leaving Boston? The thing is, all those calculations looked great when he was doing well in Boston, and everyone fell in love with sabermetrics, but does that indicate how good of a ballplayer Bellhorn is? No. Its very subjective and fun to talk about but in the end its no more accurate than any other theory, which is in itself argumentative. There is no formula for success, sometimes the numbers work out, sometimes they dont, but its when stat heads insult people who have just as much insight that I have a problem with. I am a very educated baseball mind and know all about sabermetrics, but came to the conclusion that it is not the end all for baseball discussion. People at SOSH dont understand that.

Not many other teams in baseball have three quality arms in their pen. The yankees sure dont, baltimore and TB have atrocious BP's and Toronto has Ryan and Speier. We are doing ok within the division in terms of BP.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesnt...but I doubt they cut him. He is of more value than career minor league Matt Ginter and MDC hasnt impressed with his appearances, and we all know how many chances Tito gives rookies. When its all said and done, I think Hansen eventually works his way up and wishful thinking is that Wells returns and the most possible transactions are Dinardo and MDC back to AAA with the resurgence of Foulke and his ability to get LHH hitters out and the fact that Dinardo is not a lefty specialist. Edit: I still think Hansen doesnt come up for a while since they are working hard at getting Riske back. We have arms in the bullpen, no need to rush Hansen.