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What was Ron-Wash doing taking Feliz out of the game? That move will undoubtedly be questioned for a long, lon time if the Rangers don't win.

Might be the best game I've ever seen. Likely the best WS game I've ever seen. Just amazing baseball.

There's the problem right there. It will get better because the team had a collapse of epic proportions--which is extremely unlikely to happen again--and because they actually have good players on the team. It has nothing to do with the FO saying that they will do better--anyone with any knowledge of baseball will put the Sox as a top 5 team going into the season next year. I can't predict the future, but history tells me the ownership will put a very good team on the field next year. That's happened consistently. It is disrespectful to the intelligence of other posters here to say that it is simply a matter of buying some stupid party line. I thought Theo Epstein was a good GM. I think that the ownership thought he was a good GM. Plenty of baseball people think he was a good GM. The Cubs bent over backwards to get him because they think he'll be a good baseball executive. Clearly this is something that can be at least debated. It isn't cut and dry. No need to pretend it is. Just stop it. I care about the Sox too. Enough to have been consistently posting on this site for 6 years. The collapse hurt all of us, but this is sports, not real life. It sucks when the Sox lose, especially when they collapse. However, being hurt about the consequences and demanding swift retribution are two different issues. Being more hurt does not logically equate with correctly demandingmore retribution. One does not follow the other. That's what I mean by "measured" response. The response should be based on the 'facts on the ground', not by the emotions inside. Emotions are illogical. Is it as bogus as not winning a WS for 86 years? Stop with the hyperbole. There are plenty of things to bitch about in life. They haven't won enough AL East titles for your liking? They've made the playoffs more and won more games than every team BUT ONE since 2003. They've won more WS titles than any other team. It literally might as hard to win the AL East as it is to win the World Series. Do you think the Cardinals or Rangers could win the AL East this year? How about the Giants last year? Winning the AL East is not the prize. It just isn't. Would you be happier if they won two AL East titles but didn't make the playoffs aside from that? Ridiculous. It is time to put this issue to rest, as far as I'm concerned. 2012 has plenty to offer and the team is still good.

As soon as I posted I knew I should have mentioned you. Would have edited but freaking iPod makes it hard... Yes you are a vet!

In starting to get interested in Bard as Alexi Ogando. #5 starter in season and long relief stopper in the playoffs. Teams can get a lot out of an arm like that.

User Name may not have much tact as a relatively new poster knocking china off the tables like a bull, but I agree with him about the hyperbole. It has been out of control since the collapse. I'm hopeful it is mere venting rather than the level of nuance we can expect moving forward. I'm used to it from old vets like a700 but I hope the group of so called realists from the other site are not hellbent on setting unrealistic standards year after year and then playing Monday morning quarterback when things don't work out. I can handle (and appreciate) a few of those views but a majority is tough to stomach, especially in an offseason that really calls for measured responses rather that abstract calls for accountability. The team will be addressed this winter. have no fear. It's a good club and god willing there will be another fresh season next spring. Go sox!

Agreed. People who are willing to write off potential managers because they have some past association with the team--regardless of the nature of that association--are throwing away other positive attributes. It wouldn't hurt if the next manager had rapport with the players already, or if he didn't need to learn all the nuances of managing in Boston. Farrell is an intimidating mo-fo. He could run a tight ship and be an excellent name on the short list. Personality matters a lot here.

I would have thought he might be interested in going to a yearly contender when the Cards were struggling earlier in the year and didn't appear to have a chance of winning a WS. Now they look like a team perfectly capable of getting to the WS any particular year with the right combination of role players and getting hot at the right time.

Emmz has shown a very consistently solid knowledge about baseball since she joined the site. This is clear.

It had been 4 hours and 39 minutes since the previous post. I posted in the 4th inning. Nobody had posted for the entire game to that point. Shoot a guy for commenting about how good Yadier Molina is and how I would like him. And you shouldn't be shocked that the comment might relate back to the Red Sox. This is a Red Sox forum. I didn't hijack a thread, it was a few sentences. That's all I have to add, but just cool off a bit.

I will be surprised if his 3 HR (and Hall of Fame performance overall) don't get him signed back in St. Louis. I'm not sure which other teams would make sense for him, or which could justify the last 5 years of a 10 year deal in which he is more A-Rod than Babe Ruth. Maybe the Cubs, but I suspect they will push for Prince Fielder. Do the Mets have the money to make a push? Anyone else that seems primed to make a move?

I don't know... he's got rolling mutual options. They may be losing Pujols. You never know. In any case, Molina is the catcher I like watching most in the game. He's just really solid.

I wish the Sox would overpay and get Yadier Molina when the Cards lose Pujols and LaRussa after this season (maybe). He's such a rock behind the plate and actually good defensively.

I'm really glad to have all the new participants here, but there's probably better threads for complaining about other websites, no?

Can you find me a single projection system (PECOTA, Marcel, James, etc.,) that projected Crawford to have the numbers he had? How about a single person who projected it? It's baseball. Sometimes this s*** just happens.

BTW, This is exactly what I'm talking about too.

You're not wrong. Some people here are on a crusade for accountability and straight shooters because the majority of people involved with the collapse have been side-stepping and hiding from the issues. Of course, their side-stepping and hiding doesn't actually impact the problem, which is the collapse itself, which is now over and will not repeat itself. What matters most is how the FO (open/honest or side-stepping) decides to improve the team moving forward. That's issue #1. While we wait, however, some will continue to analyze the small issues as a proxy for improving the team.

My comment was about expressed dissatisfaction with Cherington for not immediately banning beer in the clubhouse... For him waiting to figure out next steps. As if it really matters.

The board has taken a turn since the collapse toward demanding swift, categorical and decisive action in every area. The idea of actually evaluating what went wrong before moving forward is rejected in favor of declaring that what went wrong is "everything" and that therefore "everything" needs replacing, including policies, players, coaches, vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.

This is a solid analysis... should have read it before I posted my long-winded version. You compare Aceves to the list of best pitchers in a few ways to see if it compares to what you would think. When it does it gives you confidence in the metric. That list seems intuitively correct to me. :thumbsup:

I wouldn't just dismiss a stat out of hand like that. Aceves was undoubtedly more valuable than Lackey last year... not every stat gets it right every time. Fangraphs weighs pitchers using FIP, which is a metric designed to eliminate luck from pitchers' performances. The past two seasons it has really emphasized the amount of "bad luck" that Lackey has had and has improved his value because of it. Of course, by " bad luck" it really is capturing things similar to BABIP, which is a very useful stat but anyone who watched Lackey this year knows that his BABIP would probably be higher because there were many hard hit balls off of him. In any case, Fangraphs is consistently saying that Lackey's results are worse than his performance/abilities should dictate. I would say the stat should be used depending on how much weight you give to this type of analysis. Fangraphs still said that Lackey was really bad according to FIP and WAR, it just seems that he had a better combination of other stats than the guys whose FIP was worse (K rates, walk rates, HR rates). He also pitched many more innings than Aceves, so he may have contributed more actual wins to his team because of that difference. I think ORS laid out nicely why these types of metrics are useful. When they match your percieved list of player value--even if that list is mostly based on traditional stats--then you come to trust its validity. Then, when it spits out something unexpected, it can help you check your biases. For instance, both sites do not list Lackey as the worst pitcher in the league. With fangraphs I looked at FIP at a certain number of innings and (as discussed earlier) there were a few worse pitchers. With B-R there are 3 pitchers over 100 IP who were worse/the same (Joel Pineiro, Fausto Carmona and Tim Wakefield). That more or less confirms my suspicion... especially having watched Wakefield. He was terrible for most of the year and his 'intangables' really hurt too.