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Would you be comfortable with him as the 4th OF/depth signing, realizing that that player is often who the manager calls on when there is an injury?

I think that stuff wise, Santana has upside. He's just never put it together. IIRC, Theo was pretty aggressive trying to look into deals for Santana maybe 4 years ago, but the Angels held tightly to him.

And just to build off of the offensive ranks for Youkilis, here are the pitching ranks for Santana over the past 2 years: Baseball Reference WAR 2010 and 2011 total: 18. Ian Kennedy (8.2) 19. Matt Cain (8) 20. Tim Lincecum (8) 21. Clay Buchholz (7.5) 22. Trevor Cahill (7.5) 23. Mark Buehrle (7.2) 24. Dan Haren (7.2) 25. Jeremy Guthrie (7.2) 26. John Danks (7) 27. Shaun Marcum (6.9) 28. Chris Carpenter (6.9) 29. Roy Oswalt (6.8) 30. Doug Fister (6.7) 31. Jhoulys Chacin (6.6) 32. Ervin Santana (6.4) 33. Mariano Rivera (6.4) 34. Anibal Sanchez (6.3) 35. Johnny Cueto (6.3) 36. Hiroki Kuroda (6.2) 37. Adam Wainwright (5.9) 38. Mat Latos (5.8) 39. Gavin Floyd (5.8) 40. Max Scherzer (5.6) And Fangraphs 2010-2011: 40. Chad Billingsley (6.6) 41. Hiroki Kuroda (6.5) 42. Max Scherzer (6.5) 43. Tim Hudson (6.4) 44. Shaun Marcum (6.3) 45. Ryan Dempster (6.1) 46. Tommy Hanson (6.1) 47. Adam Wainwright (6.1) 48. Ricky Nolasco (6.0) 49. Carl Pavano (6.0) 50. Josh Beckett (5.7) 51. Ervin Santana (5.7) The problems with Fangraphs use of FIP as part of WAR have been well articulated. Hence my inclusion of the B-R list. In any case, I see a number of names there that would cost either prospects or something less significant to the Sox than Kevin Youkilis. Santana is a good pitcher, but he's not elite.

I'm glad this got its own thread. It's a very pressing question. Can't we just make a "Catch-All A700 et al. Bitch About Stuff Thread"?

Let's hope they don't have the same results. I could not tolerate 2 World Series and 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. Absolutely out of the question.

"Nothing better" means that is your highest hope? I want a World Series. This team is capable.

So, speculative means "completely out of thin air"? I was hoping there was some sort of substance here. Speculating, I would say no. Youkilis is a legit cleanup hitter on any team. Santana is arguably a #2, possibly a #3. I like Santana, but I would hope to get more out of a deal for Youk.

SBF, I see an offseason of frustration on the horizon for you. I know you think they should go out and get Joakim Soria, Joe Nathan, Heath Bell and Ryan Madson, but chances are they will get one guy you've heard of, and 2-4 that you haven't. Relievers are often guys you've never heard of but they can still be good. I just ask that you have some patience with the players they get and wait to see what they can actually do. There's plenty of guys who throw mid-90s these days. I also suspect that both Weiland and Doubront and maybe even Wilson will be given the chance to prove their worth from the pen. Plenty of good teams explore many options in the bullpen. The team shouldn't just throw money at established guys because it is the most variable position in the game.

Holy s***! Why didn't the Red Sox get this guy? They should have traded for Melkey Cabrera too. Ben the Boob is a complete failure.

Would it be possible for the Sox to land both Ortiz and Beltran this offseason, or are they mutually exclusive signings? It seems like a move like that, coupled with moving Kalish or Reddick + (Reddick, please) to a team like the White Sox for a pitcher (Floyd), would be a strong offseason. I'm pretty strongly in favor of signing Beltran, not so much in favor of Ortiz, unless he comes along with a guy like Beltran. Ellsbury Pedroia Gonzalez Youkilis Ortiz Beltran Crawford Lavarnway/Salty Scutaro That's a pretty fearsome lineup, if you ask me. Lavarnway will be the best offensive catcher the Sox have had since Varitek was in his prime and will add a lot of length.

I'm a chess player. I'm convinced that there's always a good move that can be made--even when that may not be the case. From that perspective, however, there are often good moves that can be made if you're willing to look ahead a few moves and not be so concerned with losing your current position or a certain piece. I think the Yankees have many of their own problems to work out. I think they have a handful of good players and a number who are an injury or sunrise away from being troublesome. The have had years to figure out how to create an actual rotation and, despite your love for Brian Cashman, they haven't done it. This year they somehow scraped by on Ivan Nova and Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon. None of those players are scary. Texas beat them around and they don't post a huge threat to the Sox. I'm also not afraid of CJ Wilson in pinstripes, especially if they have to pay a fair amount in money and/or years for him. I'm also not afraid that the Yankees will trade someone like Montero for a good pitcher. I fear Montero for the next 10 years more than I do the Yankees getting a great pitcher, even someone like Felix. I guess I just don't live in as much fear of the Yankees. The Sox play 162 games, and something like 144 of those are against teams NOT the Yankees. If they win all of those games then they have nothing to worry about from NY. If they win most of those games they are fine. I think the Sox will field a better team than every team in the AL not including the Rangers, Yankees and maybe the Rays. I think they could be better than any of those teams, and that those teams have to deal with their own demons too. Unfortunately, the Sox have to beat out two other really good teams to make the playoffs. That's a tough expectation, but it has to be done. I think with Beckett and Lester the Sox have as good a 1-2 punch as any team in the AL. I think with Ellsbury, Pedroia, Gonzalez and Youkilis (and others) they have the best offense in baseball. I'm hopeful that the rest of the team will fill out.

Ha. There will be a day when IOrtiz writes something like "you were right, E1, a700 is a blowhard" but until then I will stop trying to convince him. Just kidding, of course. You would be the first to admit that you put being opinionated ahead of being right and that sometimes that works for you, and sometimes it doesn't. Me, on the other hand, I'm "what's wrong with society today" (or whatever) because I prefer a more nuanced view of things. Generational, background, all sorts of differences between you and I. I'm just glad you have a real, honest-to-goodness, online friend in iOrtiz.

I went out of my way to only hurl insults at a700, not you. If one slipped toward you then I apologize. As you will learn, I try to be as particular about language as possible. Sometimes I may miss reading between the lines, but I figure if people have time to write something they have time to be clear. I don't do it to intentionally obfuscate. EDIT: I now realize you weren't saying he's the best today... let's not get into that again. He may be the best combination of experience, current talent, and age, but not the best with a ball in his hand. I merely contest your (repeated) claim that Papelbon is the best closer today. I don't think he is. Sadly, I think even over the next four years that f***ing robot Mariano Rivera could continue to be better than him because.. well, he's a f***ing robot. I pray that I'm wrong. Cheers.