example1

Until we know what the terms of the offers were, I'm hesitant to start faulting one side or the other. My initial rage is lessening and reasonable Example1 is coming back... slowly but surely. Before I got to bed tonight I will be optimistic again. Is there anything preventing San Diego from signing Gonzalez to a deal and then trading him, thus eliminating any need to renegotiate a "window"?

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Feeling heartened. The Sox don't want to let this one slip through their hands. They really don't. I just don't want to have to listen to the douchebags here complaining about the FO dropping the ball again if they are going to get the deal done.

The FO needs a new policy. "We will shot down every rumor as completely baseless until the player has a Red Sox jersey on at the podium. Until then, Gordon Edes or Buster Olney or Peter Abraham can do nothing but cause us trouble with our fans." Yesterday they could have come out or tweeted "I haven't heard the deal is done and it isn't over until it is completely over". They don't need to do a lot of handholding all of the time with us, but something to keep expectations from blowing through the roof would be wise. I'm coming back to a place of sanity now...

First of all, let's stop saying the Sox NEED to spend more than they've offered across the board because the Nationals shocked everyone in baseball with their deal. I'm willing to bet they regret that soon. Also, the only reason the Nationals do that is because players DON'T WANT TO GO TO DC TO PLAY FOR A s***** TEAM IN THE NL EAST. The Sox aren't in that position and have plenty of players who will happily play with them. That doesn't bode well for Crawford, should bode fine for Gonzalez (not getting him isn't acceptable) and obviously Werth is off the table.

All of this is mind boggling. How do the Sox even anticipate signing players in their prime if they aren't willing to extend them beyond 35? This is just a prelude to what is going to happen when Pedroia is a FA. Gonzalez isn't interested in hitting the market at 36, but it sounds like he's willing to sign with Boston without becoming a FA if they will pay him through those more difficult years. That in and of itself should be worth something. Werth contract is something the Sox shouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Probably the same with Crawford.

We know. You would rather watch hockey any way. You were rooting for the Sox to lose before this and you were happy that the deal fell through. You are not a Red Sox fan.

me too, but I think it is because my body ran out of "mad" hormones and now my system is flooding with opioid-like chemicals to help me recover. Usually Henry would have thrown Gonzalez and his agent under the bus by now. Maybe they're saving that for tonight.

No thanks. They make up plenty of offensive production by getting Gonzalez. Lowrie should be a good producer at 3B and if Iglesias can contribute with his glove by mid-season then that can add some WAR to the pot. While I disagree with your premise, I have to admit that the entire off-season relies on a huge move for Gonzalez. What annoys me more than anything is that they had the CHANCE to sit down today and say "we have Adrian Gonzalez for a year and we gave up a lot for him" and then they figure out the contract anyway. The most they would lose there is some prospects (minus Gonzalez's production for one year). Instead, they turn the entire deal down and say "If I can't have my cake and eat it too, I don't want anything!" Hey Sox FO, your fanbase deserves this. We have watched you bungle deals over and over again, A-Rod, Teixeira, etc., but this would be too much. If they don't come out of the weekend being able to say that they have Adrian Gonzalez (with or without extension) then it is a loss. I don't give a f*** that they gave up Casey Kelly. Even a pitcher as good as Jon Lester doesn't sell out ballparks. Kelly won't either. Gonzalez would.

Pink hats don't have the pit at the bottom of their stomachs like you and I do. This literally hurts my soul.

What I don't understand is why they would think they could get an extension done anyway? If that was a sticking point then nobody should know about the deal, or potential deal, until it is finalized. Red Sox fans have been continually dragged through the mud on this s*** and I'm sick of it. Absolutely disappointing. And Werth is going elsewhere? Awesome. That's f***ing awesome.

Can someone please stop this guy from posting for a day or two? Please? He's just trying to get the rest of us to say something we can't take back.

f*** Beltre. Get Gonzalez or I'm not getting the Extra Innings package or mlb.tv package next year. No tickets, no spending. f*** it. A generational star, a former #1 overall pick, and they're f***ing squabbling between 6-8 years? As a Red Sox fan I'm sick of being embarassed by these types of things. It is intolerable.

His caliber of what? Baserunning? His OBP/SLG aren't much to brag about. I'm not sure exactly how to pinpoint his offensive value. He's exciting though.

I'm not so sure. He's a player with a .803 OPS over the past 3 years, of which only .349 is OBP. I don't think I want that batting 3rd, 4th or 5th. Like it or not, Werth is the better middle order hitter (.889 over the same span, higher OBP and SLG), so if we are agreeing that Crawford likely won't hit leadoff, and he's not taking Pedroia's spot, then he's either hitting 6th, 7th or 8th. That's a lot to spend for a bottom order hitter (compare it to the cries against JD Drew's relatively puny $14m salary). I realize he's great on the bases, but that seems most valuable hitting 1st or 2nd, maybe 3rd, but not instead of Adrian Gonzalez. Thanks, but no.

Your post's lack of words allowed you to beat me to the punch. Well done, sir.

I'm not sure I understand why this matters? He hit both really well: 135R/174L OPS+. He also had a .373 BABIP, which is high and suggests statistical variance. That's not to say Gonzalez is bad against lefties like Ortiz, I just doubt we can rely on that to be consistent moving forward (look at his 2009 splits, for instance). Although I would admittedly prefer to watch Crawford every day, there's really good reason to think Werth is the better player who will help them win a bit more. He makes the lineup look more like a "Red Sox" lineup too. I'm not exactly sure where Crawford would fit because I don't think he's this team's #3 with Gonzalez around. Gonzalez is too good to risk not getting up in late game situations. Does that make Ellsbury hit 9th and they put Crawford at leadoff--where he has asked not to hit, apparently? Does that mean Crawford hits 5th or 6th, with mediocre power and OBP skills relative to other options like Werth? Those questions need to be answered for me before the thinking side of my brain will prefer Crawford. My impulsive side would love to watch him.

I think Werth is the better fit. I love how he would fit into this lineup, ballpark and city. I think fans will come to really like his style too. Hopefully his demands are somewhat reasonable because I think they need one more good offensive piece.

Let's try this again with a poll. Will having Gonzalez change opinions?

I think Werth is going to be the guy. Don't know if it will be this week, but I expect heavy posturing toward Crawford and a substantial "take it or leave it" offer to Werth, which he will take with dollar signs in his eyes and Adrian Gonzalez as a new best friend. Both of these guys, from all reports, are good to great clubhouse guys, team guys. If you're going to invest money, get guys you won't have to worry about in terms of effort, caring, maturity, etc., They don't like knuckleheads. If they add Werth and Gonzalez, here are the two stat lines they can reasonably expect to add to the lineup to two of their open positions: AVG season, last 3 years: Gonzalez: 161 G, .285/..387/.523/.910, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 151 OPS+, 4.8 WAR Werth: 150 G, .279/.376/.513/.889, 29 HR, 84 RBI, 132 OPS+, 4.2 WAR FWIW, here are Beltre and Martinez's average seasons, last 3 years: Beltre: 136 G, .286/.335/.471/.805, 20 HR, 74 RBI, 114 OPS+, 3.6 WAR Martinez: 118 G, .298/.362/.462/.823, 15 HR, 74 RBI, 117 OPS+, 2.56 WAR I think there's reason to believe that the addition of Werth and Gonzalez will be a significant net gain over Beltre and Martinez. They might also do better with draft picks as a bonus.

A poster on SoSH has pointed out that there's a chance the Sox will wait to finalize a deal for a few months, having something to do with the way that luxury tax is calculated, particularly when it is calculated. By waiting until April the Sox won't take a luxury tax hit due to A-Gon's salary; it can apply to the 2012 season instead when more salary space is available. Otherwise they couldn't sign Werth or Crawford without taking a hit... or some such thing. Honestly I didn't want to take the time to research or really understand it, but this FO knows what they are doing and if there is good reason to wait I have no reason to question it. They aren't going to include Casey Kelly and Rizzo and Fuentes just to have a guy for one season. They weren't willing to include Kelly this entire time, since they started discussing Gonzalez last year or before. They aren't suddenly going to add him for a very short term gain. It just isn't happening, no matter how stupid GoBruins thinks they are.