SchillingIsTheNatural

If Jacoby Ellsbury goes into the deal I would hope it doesn't include Lester, Masterson, AND Lowrie. Perhaps if the Twins could throw in another player.

I do know the Red Sox and Twins were supposed to talk this afternoon. I haven't seen a single report from the Red Sox side, only that the Yankees are willing to include Hughes. Will be interesting if we see a report tonight

roto: Well this sucks. maybe we can get Dan Haren.

If that deals goes through the Yankees rotation appears as: 1. Johan Santana 2. Chein Ming Wang 3. Andy Pettite 4. Mike Mussina 5. Joba Chamberlain ...that puts them back in contention and I have Pettite penciled in because if he sees a hole open in that rotation he will join in. I wonder if its possible the Red Sox can push the offer a little more on the Yankees. Or better yet...turn around and somehow get Dan Haren without including Buchholz or Ellsbury.

Just read a report on roto saying the Yankees have increased the offer to Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera for Johan Santana.

Again I have to say Melky Cabrera was bumped up to the MLB level based on a need from the Yankees standpoint. When he first came up he looked lost and confused at CF. He has managed to grow at the MLB level but I don't think he necessarily earned the position. The Red Sox and Yankees have a complete different approach when dealing with youngsters. He is also surrounded by a team of excellent hitters. What if Caberera were to go to a weak offense such as the Twins? Isn't it fair to say his numbers have a better chance of dropping? I have the same issues with people claiming Ian Kennedy is further along than Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden. Why..because he is in the majors? Big deal..Chase Wright, Matt DeSalvo, and Jeff Karstens were also in the MLB last season with the Yankees. When dealing with the amount of service time in the MLB between Cabrera and Ellsbury it means little to me when I really believe, after everything I've seen, Jacoby Ellsbury is a much better player.

I'm not so sure since the Twins are already loaded with pitching talent. They are more interested in offense. Ellsbury and Lowrie will give the Twins a middle infielder and CF who can both contribute heavily on offense. Austin Jackson still has a ways to go and Melky Cabrera just won't be a big offensive player. I will take Hughes and Kennedy over Lester and Masterson but whats more important to the Twins? My bet is they go with the offense.

I would think if the Red Sox add Jacoby Ellsbury in place of Coco Crisp for the previous deal mentioned....what would the Yankees need to do to counter? Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson vs. Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester, Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson Thats a tough call between those offers

I have to say the Red Sox are deep with outfield talent in the farm system. Ryan Kalish, Jason Place, Che-Hsuan Lin, Josh Reddick ...we are going to see these kids make more of an impression in the next year or so....I think there is a chance one of them could make us forget about Jacoby Ellsbury quickly. This may not be such a bad move. The upgrade from Jon Lester to Johan Santana is much more significant than the downgrade of Ellsbury to Crisp (if a downgrade at all).

Lets just lay this out: Yankees Hughes, Cabrera, Jackson/Tabata 6 years / 150 million extention for Santana Now required to look at Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones since Damon may not be capable of CF. Red Sox Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson/Bowden cost control of Dan Haren ....I like the Red Sox position more than the Yankees.

I'd be all for sticking him at AAA and seeing what he can produce. No harm there.

I remember when the Red Sox were talking to the Mets with Manny Ramirez on the radar. The big name from the Mets was Lastings Milledge. What happened to that guy? He was supposed to be all world a couple seasons ago.

Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie, Jon Lester, and Justin Masterson ....they may be the front runners but who the hell knows. This doesn't seem like enough but who knows the truth.

per rotoworld I can only imagine its linked to Johan Santana but the Red Sox aren't about to come out and say it like Hank.

I have a hard time thinking teams like the Mets or Dodgers would look at that deal and not try to top it. Both teams have the money for Santana and he would dominate in the NL. The Twins have to do better than Hughes and Cabrera basically. Hell don't you think Jon Lester and Coco Crisp is close to the same....I'm sure we could top Austin Jackson with say...Justin Masterson. Hughes, Cabrera, Austin Jackson Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson ....I think thats a starting point from the Twins perspective and see who outbids that price.

What is bogus is you making any claims to have any valid information on Johan Santana. You don't watch him pitch so you have no clue what you are talking about. Making a statement like he has a plus-slider. It is not a great pitch and you are a fool to think otherwise. He lives off 2 pitches that he throws with deadly control and great deception. I want you to read this sentence very closely so you don't have another brain fart.... He was sitting in the 90-92 range for "part of the season." Not "this year" as you put it. Now not every pitcher comes into every game with there best stuff and Santana has the control to battle through it. But what happens when his range drops to 90-92 or below 90 permanently which is likely to happen sometime within a 6-7 year deal. He will not be as effective. These are things you need to think about when deciding on making a big move which will play a part in your teams performance for years to come. Or you could just be the Yankees and throw 305 million away on a player that won't win you anything.

He does sit in the 92-94 MPH range. I never said he was hitting 96 did I?? A few points this season he was sitting in the 90-92 MPH range. That is still effective but you need to look past what he has done and look toward what he will do. What happens when he does loose that velocity?? Suddenly the change is not as effective. His slider is not a pitch he can live off of so you saying its a plus pitch...I should ask are you serious? Have you ever watched him pitch? He lives off the fastball and changeup. If you are going to sign him for 6-7 years these are the things you need to consider. I'm making the case cause I knew another pitcher who lived off a fastball and changeup named Keith Foulke who was lights out and suddenly lost his velocity. Then he was completely ineffective. I'm not trying to make a case for Keith Foulke being in the same category of Santana (thats just silly) but the issues are still there and if something were to go wrong with Santana (injury, loss of velocity, whatever) he does not have the variety to change his approach. So my question would remain, can this guy reinvent himself down the road if called upon? Maybe he can but its still an issue I'm positive the Red Sox front office is asking when contemplating the involvement of a Jacoby Ellsbury, Buchholz, or Jon Lester.

This could be a reach but maybe not. There is a rush to move him based on the fact they can't sign him. It's not like the Twins didn't try to keep him so if thats the case I can't forsee anything occurring in the background like illegal steroid usage.....then again it could be true. It was interesting to see Santana's fastball drop in velocity for part of the season. It could be the injury he dealt with or something else but thats what worries me. If Santana looses the velocity on his fastball then his change won't be as effective and suddenly his ERA is more in the 3.5-4 range. He really is a 2-pitch pitcher with an average slider. I don't know how well Santana would do having to reinvent himself. If a transition like that is approaching I'm scared to trade away decent players and sign him to a 25 million a year deal.

I agree but what about Youkilis and Lester.

One other guy I didn't mention as a dark horse candidate. I'm not sure if he is healthy but if he is...Mike Sweeney is still an excellent player. He was always the one bright spot in Kansas City and if healthy he fits our offensive philosophy. Gets on base at an excellent clip and has some power. Again it depends if he is healthy.