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    Who’s the Red Sox Third Baseman? It's Messy


    Davy Andrews

    After two days of dueling quotes, we have a much better idea of who wants what and how things are likely to turn out. But that doesn't mean that things will go smoothly.

    Image courtesy of © Nathan Ray Seebeck-Imagn Images

    Red Sox Video

    So maybe you were busy on Monday and Tuesday. Monday was a holiday, and maybe you just took Tuesday off from paying attention to spring training. That would be totally fine. Very little that truly matters is happening right now. However, if you love drama, then I’m so sorry for your loss, because the past two days were extremely weird and messy. Allow me to catch you up.

    On Monday, the Red Sox had a meeting from 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM. Then practice started. Around 12:30, Rafael Devers – simultaneously one of the league’s best overall third basemen and the league’s absolute worst third base defender – took questions from reporters alongside translator Daveson Perez. Let me hit you with some highlights:

    “My position is third base.”

    Asked Dan Shaughnessy, if the team asked Devers to DH, would he do it?

    “No. I play third.”

    What if they insisted?

    “No.”

    Devers then revealed that Craig Breslow and Alex Cora had met with him on Friday to broach the subject of moving to DH.

    “They asked me the question about how I feel about DH, and yeah, I gave them the answer I just gave: ‘No.’”

    What about first base?

    “No.”

    First of all, let’s give Devers credit for honesty. He wants to play third base. He believes he can hold the position down. He’s being direct and honest. Second, he said plenty of other, less grabby things. He said, “We all know that this team drafted me and I’ve been here my entire career and I am Boston Red Sox through and through….I’m open to listening and hearing what they have to say moving forward.” He also said that when he signed his 10-year deal in January 2023, it was to play third base: “That was definitely what was discussed when I signed, that I would be playing this position for a long time.” He went on, “I believe people’s word and I take it to heart, so it was very surprising that they would suggest that [moving to DH]. Since the beginning, I have known that this is a business and I’ve known that each side is going to do what’s comfortable to them. I don’t think that this is the right way to do business.”

    For the most part, Alex Cora and Alex Bregman, the two other main characters, did their best to defuse the situation. Cora declined to comment on Devers’ comments on Monday. Then on Tuesday, he repeatedly touted the strength of his relationship with Devers. He told reporters that he’d invited both Bregman and Devers over to his house to chat for 45 minutes on Monday night. After batting practice, Devers and Bregman fist bumped in full view of the writers.

    In the afternoon, Bregman offered reporters a grand bouquet of bland affirmations: “I’m super excited just to be his teammate. He’s a great player. I think everybody in this clubhouse is worried about winning….I’ll play wherever AC tells me to play.” He kept talking for quite a while, but you get the point. Bregman has never been the most genuine player when it comes to addressing the public, and he came out and said all the things you’d expect while dodging the question of where he thinks he should play. Masataka Yoshida, who would be the odd man out were Devers to move to DH, chimed in: “My job is to give it all my best, whatever my job calls for. If that is to DH or that is to play the outfield, I’m giving it my best.” It sounded like the drama was just about over.

    Then things got hairy again. Speaking about Devers, Cora said, “He feels like he’s a third baseman.” This is an incredible quote. Cora could have just said that Devers is a third baseman. He would’ve been telling the truth. He could have just said the obvious, that Bregman is literally a reigning Gold Glover. Instead, he went with feels like. It’s a work of passive-aggressive artistry.

    Cora didn’t stop there. When asked about the promises made to Devers, he got right to the heart of the matter, “Different people here, right? There’s a different leader here. Chaim [Bloom] is in St. Louis right now.” That’s not mincing words, and it’s not accidentally getting passive-aggressive. It’s saying very clearly that the Red Sox do not in any way feel bound by the promises they made to Devers. I don’t think that’s an indefensible argument, but I do think that Devers has every right to be hurt by it.

    I have my own opinion about how the Red Sox should handle the situation and what the best infield configuration would look like. I’m sure you have yours too. We’re also working with incomplete information, because the injury component – when the shoulders of both Devers and Yoshida will be healthy enough for them to play at 100% – no doubt affects the team’s calculus, and that’s not public knowledge. However, Cora has now made it very clear that the team wants Bregman at third and Devers at DH. That means a couple things. It means Yoshida will either be playing in the outfield or not at all. It means that the team expects either Vaughn Grissom or Kristian Campbell to play second base and play it well. It means the team expects Trevor Story to stay healthy and perform at shortstop, which at this point would be a major surprise. This is purely speculation, but I think we have to at least entertain the possibility that the Red Sox never really considered playing Bregman at second base; that they always figured they’d find a way to move Devers off third.

    So that’s where things stand as of Wednesday morning, but there’s also one more puzzle piece. So far, the collection of quotes I’ve shown you has been messy, but as is his wont, Triston Casas jumped into the fray and took the whole situation from drama to locker room farce. Visibly smirking, Casas told reporters: ““I think it’s Raffy Devers’s position. I think he’s the third baseman and at that point that’s where it stands. He’s done it for a really long time now and I think he’s only getting better at that position. I think his defense is getting better every single year.”

    Casas continued, calling Devers, “the best third baseman in the league,” and saying that Bregman should play second base. “I think he’s going to make the transition well. I think he’s athletic enough to.”

    This is very tricky situation. The Red Sox are bound to Devers for a very long time. Despite his glove, he’s still the best player on the team, and they have not yet figured out how to handle the situation without hurting him. Still, it's hard to imagine Devers staying at third base if Brelsow and Cora want him elsewhere. The situation might stay messy for a while. It will certainly be resolved one way or another by Opening Day. In the meantime, at least we get to enjoy Triston Casas.  

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    39 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

    This is how I see it:  Devers has been the Sox third baseman for over seven years, including on a world championship team. He is generally considered their best player at this time. Now, he hears talk that he is not good enough defensively and has to change positions to make room for the new guy. Devers is human. He has his pride and his feelings. So, he reacts by saying something like " I am the third baseman, I don't want to play another position or DH". The more diplomatic response would have been,  " I prefer playing third, but I will do whatever the manager wants to help the team".  But Devers' response was totally understandable. I don't blame the translator or the reporter. If anything, I blame Sox management for being indecisive. They should have made it clear to Devers, Bregman and Casas exactly what their plans were and what was expected from each of them. 

    If the decision has already been made on 3B then I agree it’s on Cora, but IMO the big decision will come if somebody can win the 2B job well enough to play it FT. If not i still see Bregman playing there. Cora has already said he doesn’t want to move Bregman around just like he did when Story arrived his first year.

    1 minute ago, Old Red said:

    If the decision has already been made on 3B then I agree it’s on Cora, but IMO the big decision will come if somebody can win the 2B job well enough to play it FT. If not i still see Bregman playing there. Cora has already said he doesn’t want to move Bregman around just like he did when Story arrived his first year.

    So, if a DHam-Romy platoon is hitting .800 and playing plus D, that's not good enough to keep Bregman at 3B?

    We need a 2Bman who plays FT?

    Regardless who plays 2B and how much, they are likely just a placeholder for Campbell, who may very well win the opening day job or become the FT 2Bman by May.

    It's nice to have choices, and by that I mean better choices than Peraza vs Arroyo or EValdez vs Reyes.

    17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    So, if a DHam-Romy platoon is hitting .800 and playing plus D, that's not good enough to keep Bregman at 3B?

    We need a 2Bman who plays FT?

    Regardless who plays 2B and how much, they are likely just a placeholder for Campbell, who may very well win the opening day job or become the FT 2Bman by May.

    It's nice to have choices, and by that I mean better choices than Peraza vs Arroyo or EValdez vs Reyes.

    Both DHam, and Romy are backups, and most likely wouldn’t have even got on the 26 last year except for injuries. I don’t think they are in any running for the 2B job. Grissom, or Campbell are the front runners for the job IMO, and if they can’t win the job then Bregman will.

    2 hours ago, Old Red said:

    Both DHam, and Romy are backups, and most likely wouldn’t have even got on the 26 last year except for injuries. I don’t think they are in any running for the 2B job. Grissom, or Campbell are the front runners for the job IMO, and if they can’t win the job then Bregman will.

    EValdez and Reyes did not get injured. Grissom did, but he seemed set on losing the job, anyway.

    Why does it matter how they got the job, anyway?

    I agree, they are better as back-ups, but answer my question. If they hit .800, combined and play plus D, why do we need a FT'er to keep Bregman at 3B?

    1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

    EValdez and Reyes did not get injured. Grissom did, but he seemed set on losing the job, anyway.

    Why does it matter how they got the job, anyway?

    I agree, they are better as back-ups, but answer my question. If they hit .800, combined and play plus D, why do we need a FT'er to keep Bregman at 3B?

    I already did answer your question. DHam, and Romy aren’t in the running IMO. Grissom, and Campbell are IMO, and Campbell, and Grissom will get most of the reps. I didn’t say Evaldez, and Reyes got injured. Story, and Grissom did, and that opened up the whole revolving door need, and thus the call up of so many. If no one is good enough to play FT at 2B then Bregman would be the best option IMO. 2B is more important than 3B.

    34 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    I already did answer your question. DHam, and Romy aren’t in the running IMO. Grissom, and Campbell are IMO, and Campbell, and Grissom will get most of the reps. I didn’t say Evaldez, and Reyes got injured. Story, and Grissom did, and that opened up the whole revolving door need, and thus the call up of so many. If no one is good enough to play FT at 2B then Bregman would be the best option IMO. 2B is more important than 3B.

    No, you answered a question I did  not ask.

    I did not say DHam and Romy will hit .800. I asked, if they do, would you  still want a FT'er at 2B? (Hell, Bregman hasn't even his .800 over the past 5 years combined.)

    Of course, I'd rather have Bregman at 2B than a DHam-Romy platoon. Everybody would, but the choice is not just about 2B. It's about several positions related to the choice Cora makes. Maybe Campbell, takes the choice away.

    I can certainly see this position is valid, if Campbell does not win the job:  3B: Devers, 2B Bregman, Yoshida/Ref DH (and no Yoshida/Ref in the OF.) I've recognized the benefits and downfalls of this choice. The choice is not clearcut, and there may be more factors involved than we know (like Yoshida's health.)

    Assuming no Campbell at 2B, I also like this plan, maybe even more: 3B: Bregman, 2B: DHam-Romy platoon, Devers DH and REF in LF vs LHPs. I know you don't like the idea, but that was not my question. There are pluses and minuses to this idea, too. Maybe Cora mixes and matches both plans and we see moving parts all over the place- just what yuou like...LOL!

    12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

    No, you answered a question I did  not ask.

    I did not say DHam and Romy will hit .800. I asked, if they do, would you  still want a FT'er at 2B? (Hell, Bregman hasn't even his .800 over the past 5 years combined.)

    Of course, I'd rather have Bregman at 2B than a DHam-Romy platoon. Everybody would, but the choice is not just about 2B. It's about several positions related to the choice Cora makes. Maybe Campbell, takes the choice away.

    I can certainly see this position is valid, if Campbell does not win the job:  3B: Devers, 2B Bregman, Yoshida/Ref DH (and no Yoshida/Ref in the OF.) I've recognized the benefits and downfalls of this choice. The choice is not clearcut, and there may be more factors involved than we know (like Yoshida's health.)

    Assuming no Campbell at 2B, I also like this plan, maybe even more: 3B: Bregman, 2B: DHam-Romy platoon, Devers DH and REF in LF vs LHPs. I know you don't like the idea, but that was not my question. There are pluses and minuses to this idea, too. Maybe Cora mixes and matches both plans and we see moving parts all over the place- just what yuou like...LOL!

    DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS - we're talking helpless.  (This was a huge problem for Sox hitters in general last year.)

    Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

    11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS.  This was a massive problem for Sox hitters in general last year.

    Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

    Hamilton isn't really all that much to write home about against RHP if he's a strict platoon bat either. 

    1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS - we're talking helpless.  (This was a huge problem for Sox hitters in general last year.)

    Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

    No doubt. Platoons are not ideal. My point was not about them hitting .800, combined, it was IF THEY DO, would that do away with the need to have to have a FT 2BMan?

    Both would likely get a few ABs against the wrong handed pitchers, but the scenario was that combined, they would have an .800 OPS. (I'm not sure they can do that, since DHam will likely hit .750, at best, vs RHPs- the larger split.

    23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    No doubt. Platoons are not ideal. My point was not about them hitting .800, combined, it was IF THEY DO, would that do away with the need to have to have a FT 2BMan?

    Both would likely get a few ABs against the wrong handed pitchers, but the scenario was that combined, they would have an .800 OPS. (I'm not sure they can do that, since DHam will likely hit .750, at best, vs RHPs- the larger split.

    I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

    1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

    Hamilton isn't really all that much to write home about against RHP if he's a strict platoon bat either. 

    No, but I think the SBs add to that offensive value.

    There is also the worry that he had just one hot streak.

    .438 in 2023 (39 PAs)

    .553 to start 2024 (36 PAs)

    .916 middle 99 PAs in '24

    .607 in last 182 PAs of '24

    I'm not arguing DHam will be good enough, or not.

    Overall, he hit .729 vs RHPs in 2024, which is not bad, but certainly hopes are we can do better than that. (27 SBs in 267 PAs vs RHPs is a nice plus.) He ended up hitting .715 in gams with a RH'd starter.

    The more promising half of the platoon scenario is Romy, who had great splits vs LHPs, which is a weak area for the Sox. We have the same "was it a fluke" worry with him, too, but .879 vs LHPs and .780 when he started w a LH pitcher was pretty good.

    Remember the 2024 MLB OPS was .711.

    I hope Campbell wins the job, but until he does, I do think  DHam-Romy 2B platoon, with Bregman at 3B and Devers at DH might get some looks, and maybe even more looks than Bregman at 2B and Devers at 3B, especially if Devers has shoulder issues and or Yoshida is on the IL.

    13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    The more promising half of the platoon scenario is Romy, who had great splits vs LHPs, which is a weak area for the Sox. We have the same "was it a fluke" worry with him, too, but .879 vs LHPs and .780 when he started w a LH pitcher was pretty good.

     

    With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

    4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

    Romy played all four of the IF positions last year, and I could see him doing the same this year a one of the BACK UPS. Hamilton could be another, or he could possibly be beat out by Toro.

    15 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

    Again, the point wasn't about whether they could or will hit a combined .800 as a strict platoon, but instead, what if they did.

    BTW, they did hit close to  .800 combined with splits for a stretch in 2024. Overall :

    .729 DHam vs RHPs in 267 PAs

    .879 Romy vs LHPs in 130 PAs

    Since DHam would get about 2:1 PAs in a very strict platoon, whereby they rarely faced wrong-handed pitching, it would be projected to about .780. I realize that is a reach to suggest they might have hit .780 in 2024 with a strict alignment, but that seems like a possible potential. (Yes, that is not .800, but it's way better than the league OPS of .711  and .684 MLB 2B OPS.

    14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

    Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

    DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

    15 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    Romy played all four of the IF positions last year, and I could see him doing the same this year a one of the BACK UPS. Hamilton could be another, or he could possibly be beat out by Toro.

    Toro isn't making the team IMO. He doesn't play SS. He's not on the 40 man. No reason to add him.

    5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

    DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

    To me, if Bregman is at 3b and there's an opening at 2b, Campbell is getting the first crack at it. 

    2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    To me, if Bregman is at 3b and there's an opening at 2b, Campbell is getting the first crack at it. 

    Agreed. It might even be his to lose, this ST'ing.

    What's your solution, if Campbell does not make the roster? That was the scenario I proposed. It's not a far-fetched "what if," like some of my other ones.

    🤪

     

    16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    Again, the point wasn't about whether they could or will hit a combined .800 as a strict platoon, but instead, what if they did.

    I guess I just don't get the point of an impossible hypothetical.

    12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

    Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

    DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

    I get that pretty much every player has splits that favor them playing against a RH or LH pitcher.

    But these guys aren't robots. Many of them don't want to be in and out of the line-up every day and need consistent playing time to be in a rhythm.

    It looks good on paper, but won't always play out on the field.

    1 minute ago, Old Red said:

    Campbell first crack, Griss second crack, and Bregman 3rd option. I don’t think there is a fourth.

    Story. It's not hard to imagine he's not physically able to handle the rigors of shortstop -- for whatever reasons (old or new) -- while at the same time, Mayer crushes the next month in FLA.

    53 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

    Agree, and that’s why Cora said he makes the lineup out according to the pitching matchups for the revolving door players last year.

    3 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

    I get that pretty much every player has splits that favor them playing against a RH or LH pitcher.

    But these guys aren't robots. Many of them don't want to be in and out of the line-up every day and need consistent playing time to be in a rhythm.

    It looks good on paper, but won't always play out on the field.

    Many teams settle on almost strict platons at some positions. Injuries may force some changes, but it often works out okay. Players that platoon must want to play FT, but for some, they would not play at all, if not for their nice splits vs certain-handed pitchers.

    A guy like Refsnyder might not even make the 26, if he wasn't great vs LHPs, and the team has a great need for batters vs LHPs. If more of our players could hit both handed pitchers well, we would not need to platoon. That would be ideal, but it's not reality sand never was for many teams/players. Ref does great starting just vs LH'd starters and PH'ing other games. He ha sstarted some vs RHPs' but not many, and he does not do well, when he does.

    REF 2022: 1.005 v L (1.084 vs LH SP- 20 GS) and .792 v R (.771 RH SP - 15 GS)

    2023: .828 v L (.740 in 39 GS) .466 v R (.556 in 9GS)

    2024: .941 v L (.905 in 31 GS) .733 v R (.774 in 30 GS) He did start many games v R, mostly when O'Neill was on the IL and Rafaela at SS.)




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