Is it time to rethink offensive production from the catching position?

[Brock Beauchamp]

"Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!"

Catchers Are Mashing The Baseball In 2025. That's Right, Catchers - Padres - Padres Mission

PADRESMISSION.COM

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Since 2018, catchers across baseball have shown steady improvement. Now, they're nearly league-average. Well, not the Padres.

 

[moonslav59]

To me, defense by a catcher far outweighs what they can do on offense.

I've always been one to believe a catcher's defense goes far beyond just catching the ball, throwing out base runners, blocking bad pitches and framing balls into strike calls. How they handle the pitching staff is underrated, IMO. Whether it's building a comfort zone, providing a steady target to throw to or calling the right pitch, at the right time (although some teams call almost all pitches from the bench, these days) or settling down a shaken pitcher, a catcher's job extends beyond data and stats, more than any other position.

It's not something you can easily prove, but ask almost every MLB pitcher who ever existed, if the catcher makes a significant difference, and I'll bet over 90 to 95% say yes. That has to count for something.

The CERA stat has been misunderstood and misused for years, as is OPS Against by catcher. It's a highly limited stat that only has use when comparing catchers catching the same pitchers over the same season, and even then, it's not perfect and often involves unbalanced sample sizes and small to tiny sample sizes. It's more about the theory that some catchers get more out of the same pitchers than others do or would be expected to do, had they been that team's catcher, instead. I'll go to my grave thinking some catchers make a huge difference beyond blocking, framing and CS rates.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'll go to my grave thinking some catchers make a huge difference beyond blocking, framing and CS rates.

Oh, I 100% agree. It's such an important aspect of catching, yet one we have yet to quantify, at least publicly.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh, I 100% agree. It's such an important aspect of catching, yet one we have yet to quantify, at least publicly.

I'm not sure it can ever be quantified, especially when comparing catchers from different teams, staffs, parks, coaching and more.

It's one of those, "You know it when you see it" things.

I liked Vaz, but it was sort of a long-standing beef I had, that our other catchers, for the most part, got better numbers from the same pitchers during the same seasons, more often than not. Even the more unbalanced and smaller sample size comps seemed to greatly favor the "other guy."

Vaz did hit better than the other guy, most seasons and had a decent CS%, and some other metrics, but not that unmeasurable aspect.

[Kimmi]

On 6/15/2025 at 1:25 PM, moonslav59 said:

To me, defense by a catcher far outweighs what they can do on offense.

I've always been one to believe a catcher's defense goes far beyond just catching the ball, throwing out base runners, blocking bad pitches and framing balls into strike calls. How they handle the pitching staff is underrated, IMO. Whether it's building a comfort zone, providing a steady target to throw to or calling the right pitch, at the right time (although some teams call almost all pitches from the bench, these days) or settling down a shaken pitcher, a catcher's job extends beyond data and stats, more than any other position.

It's not something you can easily prove, but ask almost every MLB pitcher who ever existed, if the catcher makes a significant difference, and I'll bet over 90 to 95% say yes. That has to count for something.

The CERA stat has been misunderstood and misused for years, as is OPS Against by catcher. It's a highly limited stat that only has use when comparing catchers catching the same pitchers over the same season, and even then, it's not perfect and often involves unbalanced sample sizes and small to tiny sample sizes. It's more about the theory that some catchers get more out of the same pitchers than others do or would be expected to do, had they been that team's catcher, instead. I'll go to my grave thinking some catchers make a huge difference beyond blocking, framing and CS rates.

It's almost like I wrote this post myself, though I'm sure you said it much better than I would have.  I agree 100%.  Given the choice between a great defensive catcher with a light bat or a great hitting catcher with poor defense, I'm taking the former every time.  Of course, it's nice if you have a great defensive catcher who can also give you some decent offense.  Narvaez seems to be in that boat, although we're still looking at less than half a season.  So far, very good though.

[moonslav59]

29 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

It's almost like I wrote this post myself, though I'm sure you said it much better than I would have.  I agree 100%.  Given the choice between a great defensive catcher with a light bat or a great hitting catcher with poor defense, I'm taking the former every time.  Of course, it's nice if you have a great defensive catcher who can also give you some decent offense.  Narvaez seems to be in that boat, although we're still looking at less than half a season.  So far, very good though.

I'm encouraged by the minor league numbers by Narvaez, as well. Not great, but pretty damn good for a catcher, at least.

OBP: .382 (.371 in AAA)

SLG: .382 (but he improved to .400 in AAA and .451 in AA)

In 627 AAA ABs, he hit 21 HRs and 33 2Bs.

A MLB .350 OBP w 20 Hrs and 30 2Bs would be fantastic!

His defense looks awesome!

[Maxbialystock]

On 6/15/2025 at 6:20 PM, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure it can ever be quantified, especially when comparing catchers from different teams, staffs, parks, coaching and more.

It's one of those, "You know it when you see it" things.

I liked Vaz, but it was sort of a long-standing beef I had, that our other catchers, for the most part, got better numbers from the same pitchers during the same seasons, more often than not. Even the more unbalanced and smaller sample size comps seemed to greatly favor the "other guy."

Vaz did hit better than the other guy, most seasons and had a decent CS%, and some other metrics, but not that unmeasurable aspect.

Right now Narvaez seems to be good at both, which is great, but the last 6 games suggest that his role behind the plate is much more important.  Reportedly, Wong worked hard on his catching in the offseason and is improved.  That's important because Narvaez can't play every day.  

 

[Kimmi]

32 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Right now Narvaez seems to be good at both, which is great, but the last 6 games suggest that his role behind the plate is much more important.  Reportedly, Wong worked hard on his catching in the offseason and is improved.  That's important because Narvaez can't play every day.  

 

Wong ranks very well in defensive metrics, despite not playing a lot.  I think his offensive struggles are due to not having much playing time.  I am fine with Wong as our backup catcher.

[moonslav59]

I'm fine with Wong as the back-up, too. I'm hopeful Jo Garcia can stick at catcher and be our back-up in 2-3 years.

[Nick]

I think we can improve at the catcher position.

Especially if the DH spot opens up. 

Narvaez looks like a hitter to me at the plate. I would love for him to DH today.