6/23 BJ'S @ Boston

[jung]

It's just two games. A team can go 30-8 and still have a 2 games losing streak withing that frame.

 

I don't think its the fact of the losses as much as the team is losing every conceivable way possible except fielding. Its poor starting pitching or inconsistent hitting 1-6 or lousy BP or the short bench. Its just always something IMO. To me it just says 500 team. They have tons of talent but can't get out of their own way. If they were a no talent team IMO they would be right down there at the bottom sucking exhaust. Instead of their talent putting them in the top tier of teams, it only allows them to bump along like this. Imagine if they fielded the way most of these chump teams field...my God that would be another 5 losses this season.

 

The only part of the team that is bereft of talent is the BP. Have said they are a collection of journeymen from the start and that is exactly how they pitch.

[a700hitter]

I don't think its the fact of the losses as much as the team is losing every conceivable way possible except fielding. Its poor starting pitching or inconsistent hitting 1-6 or lousy BP or the short bench. Its just always something IMO. To me it just says 500 team. They have tons of talent but can't get out of their own way. If they were a no talent team IMO they would be right down there at the bottom sucking exhaust. Instead of their talent putting them in the top tier of teams, it only allows them to bump along like this. Imagine if they fielded the way most of these chump teams field...my God that would be another 5 losses this season.

 

The only part of the team that is bereft of talent is the BP. Have said they are a collection of journeymen from the start and that is exactly how they pitch.

Basically the identical squad as the dominant 2018 team (except for the pen) is playing mediocre .500 ball. As you said, they are finding every way to lose, except fielding. You have to hang it on Cora.

[moonslav59]

Basically the identical squad as the dominant 2018 team (except for the pen) is playing mediocre .500 ball. As you said, they are finding every way to lose, except fielding. You have to hang it on Cora.

 

The pen is doing about the same as last year, without all the blown saves, but also with several games where they clearly went above and beyond to get us a win or keep us from losing.

 

Pen 2018 vs 2019:

WHIP: 1.29- 1.32

ERA-: 83-84

SIERA: 3.70-3.85

K/BB: 0.98-1.19

W-L: 40-16 - 20-10 (Prorate to ~40-20)

Sv: 46- 16 (Prorate to ~33)

WAR: 3.8 - 2.9 (Prorate to ~5.8)

xFIP: 4.05- 4.18

xFIP-: 96-92

IP 587.1- 303.2 (Prorate to ~610)

 

Other than the saves issue, the numbers are very close, and when you figure offense is up league-wide,one could argue they look about equal-- by the numbers.

 

That being said, I'll take the 2018 pen over this one.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

I don't think its the fact of the losses as much as the team is losing every conceivable way possible except fielding. Its poor starting pitching or inconsistent hitting 1-6 or lousy BP or the short bench. Its just always something IMO. To me it just says 500 team. They have tons of talent but can't get out of their own way. If they were a no talent team IMO they would be right down there at the bottom sucking exhaust. Instead of their talent putting them in the top tier of teams, it only allows them to bump along like this. Imagine if they fielded the way most of these chump teams field...my God that would be another 5 losses this season.

 

The only part of the team that is bereft of talent is the BP. Have said they are a collection of journeymen from the start and that is exactly how they pitch.

 

Barnes has been one of the best set-up men in MLB for 2-3 years. He's looking bad now, but he's not a journeyman. Workman and Walden are having career years, but I agree in calling them journeymen. Brasier was always a wing and a prayer. Hembree is a journeyman.

 

We have to hope Wright is in top form, and we luck out on whoever we end up trading for. It's not impossible.

 

If Eovaldi comes back to form, we can maybe get by with just one of the above.

 

Most championship teams win despite an area with journeymen.

 

[OH FOY]

Sox are going to have play their best baseball to beat the White Sox. Even a better team then the Blue Jays.

[Slasher9]

It's just two games. A team can go 30-8 and still have a 2 games losing streak withing that frame.

 

I am trying to keep this faith. A 2 game sweep in London England sure would help

[Slasher9]

Basically the identical squad as the dominant 2018 team (except for the pen) is playing mediocre .500 ball. As you said, they are finding every way to lose, except fielding. You have to hang it on Cora.

 

Waiting on maxbialystock response to this one....

[jung]

Barnes has been one of the best set-up men in MLB for 2-3 years. He's looking bad now, but he's not a journeyman. Workman and Walden are having career years, but I agree in calling them journeymen. Brasier was always a wing and a prayer. Hembree is a journeyman.

 

We have to hope Wright is in top form, and we luck out on whoever we end up trading for. It's not impossible.

 

If Eovaldi comes back to form, we can maybe get by with just one of the above.

 

Most championship teams win despite an area with journeymen.

 

 

I would agree with that and have said several times around this forum that Barnes is the "best" Cora has got and has to fill the "fireman" role because nobody else can. As such Barnes is not available to close. Heck he is not really even available as the set up man unless it dovetails with a fireman assignment.

 

The mess that is this pen even exposes Barnes in ways he was not exposed in the past. For example, his efficiency seems to fall off dramatically if he is used two days running even if in one inning stints on both days. That second day is often enough... ugly.

 

Arguably it is STILL difficult to see us get to the end of the regular season boosted out of even the wild card. It is equally difficult to think of us in terms of either the best team of the five there or even one of the two best teams there. We can muse about how you just have to get there all we want to....it sounds more like wishful thinking by the day. It looks more to me like a year when the Sox get to a wild card birth as the 4th or 5th best team making it as opposed to a team showing its true metal late in the season and going "all the way" based on a run from there.

[moonslav59]

I am trying to keep this faith. A 2 game sweep in London England sure would help

 

Maybe something like this would give us LASTING ENERGY.

[Maxbialystock]

Waiting on maxbialystock response to this one....

 

I have said countless times that in the end the manager is responsible for overall wins and losses, especially in terms of the front office's expectations.

 

But, since you asked (actually, a700hitter asked), a couple of points in Cora's favor--

 

1. DD, not Cora, made the decision not to re-sign Kimbrel, a decision I agree with, but it has probably had a ripple effect in the bullpen. Same deal for Kelly even though the Dodgers are sorry they stole him. Kelly wasn't great until the postseason in 2018, but he did have some good games in the regular season, including 21 holds and 2 saves.

 

2. Yes, a truncated pitching regimen for starters in ST got them off to a bad start, but ERod actually pitched the normal (15 innings) amount this year and had no ST in 2018, but his ERA has shot up from 3.82 to 4.71. So much for the "must work hard in ST" theory. Porcello also pitched a decent # innings, 12, this year, and his ERA is up. David Price, on the other hand, pitched just 6.2 innings in ST and his ERA has is slightly better, 3.39 this year vs. 3.58 last year. Only Sale's ERA has shot up after a truncated ST, from 2.11 to 3.59, and I find it hard to believe that's entirely on Cora. I think we are seeing a different Sale this year. I also think lightening his ST load made sense from the standpoint that in the two previous seasons he has great April-July, and lousy August-September.

 

3. Hitting is down this year mostly because three--Beni, Mookie, JDM--in the top five of the order are having lesser years than in 2018. This, I would argue, contributes to the RISP disease currently running rampant thru the team.

 

4. Last year was the best in Red Sox history, and Cora was the manager. So to me he gets a pass this year regardless of what happens.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Maxbialystock

[a700hitter]

Waiting on maxbialystock response to this one....

I am sure that he will completely agree.

[OH FOY]

Team Stats with RISP.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp?c_id=bos#playerType=ALL&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&game_type='R'&season=2019&season_type=ANY&league_code='MLB'&sectionType=sp&statType=hitting&page=1&ts=1561389715143&sportCode='mlb'&split=risp&team_id=111&active_sw=&position=&page_type=SortablePlayer&sortOrder='desc'&sortColumn=avg&results=&perPage=50&timeframe=&last_x_days=&extended=0

[Maxbialystock]

I am sure that he will completely agree.

 

Look right above your post. And thanks for the opportunity.

[jung]

I have said countless times that in the end the manager is responsible for overall wins and losses, especially in terms of the front office's expectations.

 

But, since you asked (actually, a700hitter asked), a couple of points in Cora's favor--

 

1. DD, not Cora, made the decision not to re-sign Kimbrel, a decision I agree with, but it has probably had a ripple effect in the bullpen. Same deal for Kelly even though the Dodgers are sorry they stole him. Kelly wasn't great until the postseason in 2018, but he did have some good games in the regular season, including 21 holds and 2 saves.

 

2. Yes, a truncated pitching regimen for starters in ST got them off to a bad start, but ERod actually pitched the normal (15 innings) amount this year and had no ST in 2018, but his ERA has shot up from 3.82 to 4.71. So much for the "must work hard in ST" theory. Porcello also pitched a decent # innings, 12, this year, and his ERA is up. David Price, on the other hand, pitched just 6.2 innings in ST and his ERA has is slightly better, 3.39 this year vs. 3.58 last year. Only Sale's ERA has shot up after a truncated ST, from 2.11 to 3.59, and I find it hard to believe that's entirely on Cora. I think we are seeing a different Sale this year. I also think lightening his ST load made sense from the standpoint that in the two previous seasons he has great April-July, and lousy August-September.

 

3. Hitting is down this year mostly because three--Beni, Mookie, JDM--in the top five of the order are having lesser years than in 2018. This, I would argue, contributes to the RISP disease currently running rampant thru the team.

 

4. Last year was the best in Red Sox history, and Cora was the manager. So to me he gets a pass this year regardless of what happens.

 

However may innings they pitched, Nate, Price and Sale, down, ERod up, Porcello... about even, the entire Rotation was not ready to start the season. Three of them pitched less than the norm, one about the norm, one above the norm in ST. They all basically SUCKED through 4 turns through the rotation. In fact, regardless of his position in the rotation, the ONLY one that looked remotely ready and able to exceed our expectations was ERod, the guy who pitched more than the norm for a ST. Not to say any of us likely had high expectations for Erod. The fact remains that Erod is the only one of the starters that has exceeded them by any amount AT ALL. Price was closest to meeting expectation while not exceeding it and the other three were trash.

 

So while it might only be partially a question of innings none of them pitched worth s*** until about 4 turns through the rotation. Did the coaching staff manage too strictly what the Starters were doing between ST stints? Did they literally tell them to take it easy all ST regardless of whether they were in an actual ST stint or not? Hard to tell....but there is no changing the history. They basically sucked when they were supposed to be the strength of the team. They taxed a bullpen full of journeymen as a result and gave up about 12 of their first 18 losses without even a fight.

 

That said I am a bit more concerned at this point with our 1-6 in order and their inability to do a damned thing with any consistency v opposing Starters than I am about our Starters.

Edited June 24, 2019 by jung