Boston Red Sox deep in dissension.

[SCM33]

Hold up there big fella'. Saying that THIS is THE PROBLEM is probably putting to much weight on team chemistry, player discontent and its impact on play. Yea they look like they are distracted and lack focus. They even look whiny at times and I think it likely that it is an issue for them.

 

I also will agree with you that the injuries are just a huge pile of excuse making if that is your point about the injuries. The teams they are competing with have monster injuries to contend with. For the most part the Sox injuries have been to everyday players and their offense has still been good enough to keep them 2nd in the league even while losing to many ballgames. So CC is not really a valid reason for their demise and while dice and Lackey are pitchers, they were lost to the Sox long before spring training. The Sox decided not to try to fill those holes. So, I really don't think you can point to their absence at least for this year.

 

They need to bury the hatchet on this CRAP because any mistake made because of a lack of focus due to discontent or the sort of unhappiness the article is discussing is unacceptable and there are so many field lapses that the Sox are making at this point and a fair amount of open discontent that you can see as the camera pans the dugout and as we listen to the players in their interviews. It is hard to believe that one thing is not associated with the other. However that is not THE PROBLEM.

 

They don't have enough starting pitching. That is the problem. If they really want to take a run at this thing this year, they need to solve that problem. If they don't in my view, they are not likely to make a legitimate run although I have reserved judgement until I see how June finally pans out.

 

It is remarkable how many field lapses there are in a Sox game and that is why I suggested watching some other baseball just for the heck of it and just for comparison. However until and unless the Sox resolve their SP, everything else at least to me melts into the background.

 

At least in my view if the Sox are on the outside looking in when all is said and done it won't be because somebody got picked off daydreaming on first base during a July 23rd night game. It will be because they never had enough starting pitching to begin with and don'e have enough now.

 

They were screwed before the season started.

 

They did not address the problems off the field. Instead they blamed Tito and called him a drug addict.

[d-money]

Bunch of millionaire whiners is what they all are!After last year's embarrasing collapse, u would think they would play with a chip on their shoulder.

[SCM33]

So because olney wrote it' date=' it's automatically true?[/quote']

 

Strawman.

 

He posted the article. I posted it here. He is a respected baseball journalist. He is not someone with a reputation of stirring the pot or posting misinformation.

 

You dont have to believe it.

 

Dont argue with me about what someone else wrote on their blog.

[a700hitter]

There is usually more than a grain of truth to these stories. Is it fatal to the team's chances? No, teams with horrible chemistry have won in the past.

[example1]

Players who are probably grumpy:

 

Daniel Bard

Adrian Gonzalez

Dustin Pedroia

Kevin Youkilis

Josh Beckett

Jon Lester

 

I can't say I blame them. There are lots of reasons to be grumpy, even not knowing what's actually going on in the clubhouse.

 

* The FO/Ownership might be more worried with gate receipts than fielding a winning team.

 

* A team with one of the best offenses in baseball, and the game's best bullpen the past 50 day is in last place.

 

* A fan base and media that is supposedly very well informed is at an all-time pressure cooking temperature... as impulsive and reactionary as I can remember it.

 

There's plenty to be grumpy or dissatisfied about from all angles. I don't think Olney is going to win a Pulitzer for this reporting.

 

I think there's still hope that this team can turn it around and win 90+ games this season and compete for a post-season spot.

[jung]

I suppose it is possible that it has suddenly occurred to these guys that they may not ever put having been part of the biggest collapse in baseball history behind them. That until that demon is expunged there maybe nothing they do individually or collectively that really matters.

 

Will GM's be sitting there valuing and evaluating players when one of their minions pipes up with "well boss, he was part of the biggest collapse in baseball history". Who are these guys that almost seemed to will failure on themselves. Hell we lived it. Did it not get to be something that had the air of inevitability about it.....complete with nitwit Danny Boy pronouncing on the last night while the games were in progress that the Sox had escaped this most ignominious of fates.

 

They basically took the most playing of players managers imaginable and stabbed him squarely in the back with it. They took all the rope he gave them, wrapped it around his AND their collective necks and kicked the stool out from under the whole miserable bunch of themselves. Is it a coincidence that every guy on E1's list was part of that mess? Maybe it isn't. Food for thought.

[a700hitter]

Players who are probably grumpy:

 

Daniel Bard

Adrian Gonzalez

Dustin Pedroia

Kevin Youkilis

Josh Beckett

Jon Lester

 

I can't say I blame them. There are lots of reasons to be grumpy, even not knowing what's actually going on in the clubhouse.

 

* The FO/Ownership might be more worried with gate receipts than fielding a winning team.

 

* A team with one of the best offenses in baseball, and the game's best bullpen the past 50 day is in last place.

 

* A fan base and media that is supposedly very well informed is at an all-time pressure cooking temperature... as impulsive and reactionary as I can remember it.

 

There's plenty to be grumpy or dissatisfied about from all angles. I don't think Olney is going to win a Pulitzer for this reporting.

 

I think there's still hope that this team can turn it around and win 90+ games this season and compete for a post-season spot.

As to your reasons for the grumpiness, all I can say is that the players and the organization brought those reasons upon themselves.

[redsoxfan3]

For those of you who are saying that chemistry does not have anything to do with winning or not that much to do with winning, you are incorrect. Psychological factors in baseball play a huge role in how a player does. If the team chemistry in the clubhouse is not good, then that will impact the way some guys are out there playing the game.

 

Team chemistry has a more indirect impact on the game. If the team is communicating well and getting along, then the team will be out there having fun and will not be worrying about stuff like that. If the team chemistry is bad, then that will cause problems in several different ways. You want your teammates to be able to pick you up when you are down. If players in the clubhouse have something against each other, then most likely there is not much support for each other. That can be problematic.

 

Let me make it clear that a team can be good with bad chemistry. I have seen that several times. My travelling baseball team in high school went undefeated in the regular season. The team was constructed with the best players from the local teams in my league. There were a bunch of guys on the team that hated each other and had rivalries going on. It was not a big deal at first because we had enough talent to win games, but as the season progressed and we made it to the playoffs, we lost to the last seed in the first round and were eliminated. That was because everyone was fighting in the dugout and no one was having fun. There was a lot of tension and frustration.

 

Let's just hope that this does not translate to problems on the field for the Red Sox. It very well could, but I don't think it will be as big of an issue as this article is leading us to believe.

[FredLynn]

On winning teams' date=' is the body language better than on losing teams? Most likely, but I think Olney has the cause and effect backwards.[/quote']

 

Not entirely, though certainly winning helps make for happy clubhouses. There are individuals, lots of them, in fact, who are still poisoning the clubhouse and making winning nearly impossible. Youkilis is one-wasn't he quoted recently as saying that playing here is not fun? And Pedroia, Mighty Mouth, who, despite his obvious talent and work ethic which no one is challenging, has been quoted as telling his new boss that "Thats not the way we do things around here" and "No one tells me when I will play". Thats simply not helpful; it smacks of arrogance and insubordination. And Beckett, who was more concerned at the beginning of the season in smoking out the rat who exposed the clubhouse antics last year than taking responsibility for his role in what happened. And there are more. Its quite possible that this toxicity could infect some of the new kids who have been called up if it is allowed to remain. I have already seen Doubront at times glaring in at the umpire when he was questioning their balls and strikes calls, just like Lester does. I would hate to see Middlebrooks, Nava, Kalish et al all behaving like some of the entitled fat cats that are now on the roster, a roster that is decidedly mediocre in terms of talent level.

The only solution is to jettison many, if not all, of these miscreants and complete the job of tearing it down so that a winner can be rebuilt over time. It won't be a quick fix, but until it gets started we aren't going to get much more out of this team than what we are seeing this year...and last year...and the year before that.

[FredLynn]

Thats nothing to do with chemistry.

Buch sucked at the begining of the season due to chemistry problems? Is that why Bard s*** the bed as a starter too>?

 

So lets see, according to you we are not 33-33 because of chemistry. What's your explanation then? Don't waste your time with the injury excuse; every team has injuries.

[FredLynn]

Players who are probably grumpy:

 

Daniel Bard

Adrian Gonzalez

Dustin Pedroia

Kevin Youkilis

Josh Beckett

Jon Lester

 

I can't say I blame them. There are lots of reasons to be grumpy, even not knowing what's actually going on in the clubhouse.

 

* The FO/Ownership might be more worried with gate receipts than fielding a winning team.

 

* A team with one of the best offenses in baseball, and the game's best bullpen the past 50 day is in last place.

 

* A fan base and media that is supposedly very well informed is at an all-time pressure cooking temperature... as impulsive and reactionary as I can remember it.

 

There's plenty to be grumpy or dissatisfied about from all angles. I don't think Olney is going to win a Pulitzer for this reporting.

 

I think there's still hope that this team can turn it around and win 90+ games this season and compete for a post-season spot.

 

No coincidence that all of the players you listed have underperformed this year. Instead of getting grumpy and making unhelpful quotes to the media they ought to look in the mirror and see if they like what they see there.

[jung]

With any luck an improvement in the SP (as in a move that gets them more starting pitching) will improve the Sox winning percentage and improvements in the winning percentage may be the best way to resolve some of these distractions and issues of discontent.

 

However if their winning percentage improves but they still whine and moan and lose focus every time they have a bad outing individually, they may never work out of whatever funk they might be in.

 

There is a parallel here between the players that are performing below expectations and the players that seem to be part of E1's malcontent list. The guys making the big money are the Red Sox players that are for the most part underperforming to expectation.

[redsoxfan3]

Cody Ross and Josh Beckett are both jumping to the defense of the article that stated that the team chemistry is bad in the clubhouse. Beckett said that it is "one of the tightest groups" he's ever been apart of. Ross said that it is "one of the best" clubhouses he has ever been in. He also said that it is "comical" that people are saying the clubhouse chemistry is not good.

[redsoxrules]

So lets see' date=' according to you we are not 33-33 because of chemistry. What's your explanation then? Don't waste your time with the injury excuse; every team has injuries.[/quote']

 

Players not playing to their career avg

[SoxSport]

Having read Beckett's response to Olney's story, I'll add this caveat: when was the last time you heard a NY sports pundit say anything good about the Red Sox? Olney is NY-based.

 

I think the Red Sox have some leadership and management problems. But I also think the media overplays a lot of things, and I wouldn't completely trust anybody from NY. That's Yankeeland.

[FredLynn]

Players not playing to their career avg

 

Do you think it might be more than coincidence that Gonzalez, Youkilis, Beckett, Lester, Pedroia, Aviles etc are ALL not playing to their career averages? Many of those guys have been in the media with quotes that do not project a happy clubhouse. There are exceptions: Ortiz is one. He talks a lot but is producing. To me it seems more than chance that those who are doing most of the talking are the ones who are underproducing the most noticeably.

[SCM33]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8074272/boston-red-sox-designated-hitter-addresses-concerns-team-clubhouse

 

Encouraging article. Way to step up Papi.

[BornToRun]

Ortiz using the term beast mode is just amazing.

[Palodios]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8074272/boston-red-sox-designated-hitter-addresses-concerns-team-clubhouse

 

Encouraging article. Way to step up Papi.

 

The interesting part is the Ortiz is friendly with Olney, and wouldn't have said that about the clubhouse. Maybe Olney had asked Youkilis:lol:

[SoxFanForsyth]

Biggest deterrent to me about this article is the fact that Cody Ross came out and denied the claim.

 

You've got the usual suspects in Beckett and Ortiz coming out and saying it's a close knit group (Beckett even said that they hang out together on off days, families hanging out, going on trips, etc). But Cody Ross isn't one of the more outspoken guys. He generally keeps to himself, so the fact that he addressed it makes me think that the "poor chemistry" is more FO related than team related. Which would make sense, because Olney also says it's not something that will inhibit them from winning games.

[jacksonianmarch]

BTW, Ortiz admitted the clubhouse was a problem last September. The only thing that really changed was the manager.

[Emmz]

Well no f***ing s*** Mr. Holmes.

[SoxSport]

Biggest deterrent to me about this article is the fact that Cody Ross came out and denied the claim.

 

You've got the usual suspects in Beckett and Ortiz coming out and saying it's a close knit group (Beckett even said that they hang out together on off days, families hanging out, going on trips, etc). But Cody Ross isn't one of the more outspoken guys. He generally keeps to himself, so the fact that he addressed it makes me think that the "poor chemistry" is more FO related than team related. Which would make sense, because Olney also says it's not something that will inhibit them from winning games.

 

 

Right. It's what Cafardo has been saying all along: Ben C and the FO are not on the same page as the manager. They still have a bug up their ass about Sveum, and the way Henry/LL overruled them. From the look of things, LL has been letting them get their way on personnel: especially Bard, Iggy and Lav. The players know this, and it could have some affect on their morale if they think their best team is not out there. This may have been what Olney was talking about--without being more specific.

 

Maybe the problem with the FO is they were given too much power under Epstein, and it has been tough for LL to get some of the power back.

[kapsis21]

BTW' date=' Ortiz admitted the clubhouse was a problem last September. The only thing that really changed was the manager.[/quote']

 

dude no offense but out of that whole article that is what you picked. typical f***ing yankmee fan

[FredLynn]

The interesting part is the Ortiz is friendly with Olney' date=' and wouldn't have said that about the clubhouse. Maybe Olney had asked Youkilis:lol:[/quote']

 

Guess there isn't as much dissention in the clubhouse as Olney claims. I believe Ortiz, not Olney. Its pretty clear that everyone would be happier if they were winning, but thats called "normal". Seems this is another case of a sportswriter blowing things out of proportion in the name of sensationalism for the purpose of increasing his readership.

[jung]

Another good reason to get something done with the starting pitching, hope that improves their winning percentage and allows the discontent whatever it might be to resolve itself.

[MANNYHOF24]

Buster Olney sucks, it seems to me like the media is desperate for the Red Sox to completely fall apart. To me, it's ********. Once Crawford and Ellsbury come back, this team is going to start winning and all of this s*** will go away. I do think they need to resolve the Youkilis situation fast, or that COULD become a big problem. I just don't see it as that big of a clubhouse problem right now. If you read Becketts comments about the team actually getting along quite well, (going to dinner together, doing family activities, ect..) it just doesn't seem like a team that hates each other. The reason they have been mediocore, is because of the mediocrity of the talent that has been on the field this season, not clubhouse problems. To me, the pitching seems to be rounding into good form, the outfield is getting healthier day by day... The Red Sox should play well in the second half of the season. Let's not forget they are 22-14 since starting 12-19... Not too shaby for a team with this many injuries.

 

Just imagine how good this lineup could be if A-GONZ ever finds his stroke.

[MANNYHOF24]

I think this sums it up well, Ortiz- "Well, when you get your (expletive) kicked, fun is not a part of it," he said. "But when you're winning and you play a good game, there is hope."

[kapsis21]

Buster Olney sucks' date=' it seems to me like the media is desperate for the Red Sox to completely fall apart. To me, it's ********. Once Crawford and Ellsbury come back, this team is going to start winning and all of this s*** will go away. I do think they need to resolve the Youkilis situation fast, or that COULD become a big problem. I just don't see it as that big of a clubhouse problem right now. If you read Becketts comments about the team actually getting along quite well, (going to dinner together, doing family activities, ect..) it just doesn't seem like a team that hates each other. The reason they have been mediocore, is because of the mediocrity of the talent that has been on the field this season, not clubhouse problems. To me, the pitching seems to be rounding into good form, the outfield is getting healthier day by day... The Red Sox should play well in the second half of the season. Let's not forget they are [b']22-14 [/b]since starting 12-19... Not too shaby for a team with this many injuries.

 

Just imagine how good this lineup could be if A-GONZ ever finds his stroke.

 

that is what i just said. if Agon gets his groove back, and i really really really hope he does.

we can get back to some more winning.

 

pretty much the whole OF 2 great closers out we are still in the mist of it..

 

lets keep it up we need to get the WC #2 spot.. rooting for them.

[Ghost Of Theo]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

These f***ers can cry me a river. They make a TON of money and they all just need to shut the f*** up and play baseball. I'm so tired of this team.

 

They are all f***ing pricks and Senior Ortiz and Kentucky Fried Beckett are leading the way.

 

f*** 'em all!