Bard to Rotation a Mistake?

[jung]

August or September.....Geez.....the Sox already had a pretty decent pitching staff on the DL. Now the "DL Staff" has its closer. Wouldn't take much at this point for the DL staff to be better than some team's actual staffs.

[iortiz]

August or September.....Geez.....the Sox already had a pretty decent pitching staff on the DL. Now the "DL Staff" has its closer. Wouldn't take much at this point for the DL staff to be better than some team's actual staffs.

 

 

Hell, our situation is unbelievable.

[seabeachfred]

Pretty sad if you ask me and even if you don't ask me.....and I think a lot of this comes back to the ineptness of Cherington. I've said for months that the team should have brought in a more experienced man to be GM, one who knew baseball and didn't depend on Carmine the Computer. Cherington has proven to be a second rate patsy and I'm sorry for those of you who still defend him. Bringing in a new manager and then recycling a new GM from the previous failed regime is a experiment in failure.

 

Someone said when Cook is ready. He looks to be a helluva lot more ready than some of the stiffs I've seen of late.

[Dojji]

What exactly was Cherington supposed to do in one offseason in which all the cards were played before his job was finalized? He acquired as much depth as he could, to the point of IMHO overpaying for both Melancon and Bailey. (We could really use Josh Reddick right now, and I frankly think Kyle Weiland is going to floor us in 2-3 years). The one thing you can't accuse him of doing was going hard after bullpen fixes. He wasn't the one who let the Papelbon situation reach critical mass after all.

[a700hitter]

What exactly was Cherington supposed to do in one offseason in which all the cards were played before his job was finalized? He acquired as much depth as he could' date=' to the point of IMHO overpaying for both Melancon and Bailey. (We could really use Josh Reddick right now, and I frankly think Kyle Weiland is going to floor us in 2-3 years). The one thing you can't accuse him of doing was going hard after bullpen fixes. He wasn't the one who let the Papelbon situation reach critical mass after all.[/quote']Get a starter?

[Dojji]

WE HAVE LIKE EIGHT STARTERS!

[Elktonnick]

What exactly was Cherington supposed to do in one offseason in which all the cards were played before his job was finalized? He acquired as much depth as he could' date=' to the point of IMHO overpaying for both Melancon and Bailey. (We could really use Josh Reddick right now, and I frankly think Kyle Weiland is going to floor us in 2-3 years). The one thing you can't accuse him of doing was going hard after bullpen fixes. He wasn't the one who let the Papelbon situation reach critical mass after all.[/quote']

 

He traded Scuturo for nada, nothing zilch zero. Every other GM is laughing at him. He looked like a fool over Carpenter. Lets face it the only real positve move made was hiring BV and that wasn't his idea and he is doing everything to undercut him IMHO

[a700hitter]

WE HAVE LIKE EIGHT STARTERS!

No, we don't. Name the 8 guys we have that had 20 starts in 2011. We have 2 such pitchers on the roster-- Beckett and Lester.

[Dojji]

I was never that enamored with Scutaro, and it's telling that we never made the playoffs with him on the roster.

 

Has Marco Scutaro *ever* played on a playoff team?

 

*search*

 

Ok yeah. One season with the A's in which he was the utility man.

 

I was glad Scoot was moved. The man is a really really really good utility man, but not a starting shortstop on a playoff team. And that was before he started to seriously have trouble making the throw from the hole, or even to his double play partner. And with his growing health issues I would be frankly amazed if Scutaro played 100 games this year anyway. He was only ever here in the first place because Lowrie failed so hard so if he wasn't going to stay on the field either (and he probably isn't) it was time to move on.

 

We needed to go in another direction -- badly.

 

And if there's one move that's going to bite the Red Sox FO hard in the butt this year it's Bobby V. Say what you will about Tito, he could manage the media side of things 5,000 better than Valentine, and that's really important in this market.

[Elktonnick]

No' date=' we don't. Name the 8 guys we have that had 20 starts in 2011. We have 2 such pitchers on the roster-- Beckett and Lester.[/quote']

 

The starters that Cherries brought are Who, Whats his name, Because and Cooke:D

[iortiz]

I would have used Ortiz money in pitching. Ex. Buehrle and Wheeler and share the DH/SS/3B load between Lav/Youk/Aviles. Also, I would have kept Scutaro as well instead of investing on some of those "pitchers"

 

I won't put a first and last name on this but as some have said here; from my outside-in analisys this team didn't plan well this offseason. Only time and results will tell, though.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

WE HAVE LIKE EIGHT STARTERS!

 

A team that has 8 starters doesn't remove someone who functioned at a high level in the bullpen and convert them into a starter.

[Elktonnick]

I was never that enamored with Scutaro, and it's telling that we never made the playoffs with him on the roster.

 

Has Marco Scutaro *ever* played on a playoff team?

 

*search*

 

Ok yeah. One season with the A's in which he was the utility man.

 

I was glad Scoot was moved. The man is a really really really good utility man, but not a starting shortstop on a playoff team. And that was before he started to seriously have trouble making the throw from the hole, or even to his double play partner. And with his growing health issues I would be frankly amazed if Scutaro played 100 games this year anyway. He was only ever here in the first place because Lowrie failed so hard so if he wasn't going to stay on the field either (and he probably isn't) it was time to move on.

 

We needed to go in another direction -- badly.

 

And if there's one move that's going to bite the Red Sox FO hard in the butt this year it's Bobby V. Say what you will about Tito, he could manage the media side of things 5,000 better than Valentine.

 

That may all be true. But a competent GM would have gotten more for Scuturo than a bucket of balls.

[iortiz]

A team that has 8 starters doesn't remove someone who functioned at a high level in the bullpen and convert them into a starter.

 

As simple as this.

[Dojji]

No' date=' we don't. Name the 8 guys we have that had 20 starts in 2011. We have 2 such pitchers on the roster-- Beckett and Lester.[/quote']

 

So? We still go 8 deep before we start running into the real crap, which is Andrew Miller in my mind.

 

Beckett

Lester

Buchholz

Doubront

Bard

Aceves

Padilla

Cook

 

And that's without counting Matsuzaka who could make it back sometine in midseason.

 

Our starting pitching depth is not our problem. It's about durability and dependability after Beckett and Lester (not sparing Buchholz here because we're asking him to play above his career level so far in terms of IP and durability.

 

You're not going to solve that problem by signing Edwin Jackson or the corpse of Roy Oswalt.

[jung]

Assuming that upper management gave Baseball Operations fair warning that they were not going to spend much additional money this offseason due to the amount of money they were already committed to spend, then my one complaint is that what they did was neither fish nor fowl. They were sort of zigging one day and zagging the next.

 

I would have preferred more of an emphasis on pitching in the offseason and I could have tolerated seeing Ortiz gone as that would have signaled a complete new direction for the Sox and would have triggered a number of changes, changes that I think will be likely to forced to at some point anyway.

 

I am not saying they went into the offseason with no idea what they wanted to do although I suppose that is possible. However, I really do not like these "plans" that seem to feature a bit of this and a bit of that I would prefer they establish a definitive direction and execute to make it happen. I don't think I saw that sort of execution although I have to admit that I am on the outside looking in which could easily contribute to not seeing clearly what they had intended.

 

At any rate the whole season is in front of us and maybe things will work out after all.

[Dojji]

That may all be true. But a competent GM would have gotten more for Scuturo than a bucket of balls.

 

You only believe that because you're willfully blind about what Scutaro actually provides.

 

Who cares that his shoulder is dead, he's got back problems, he has effectively no range and can barely make the throws, right? He actually hit in September, therefore people should be lining up to take a 36 year old player with documented health problems and a fair sized contract who plays a borderline defensive game in a high leverage defensive position off our hands. Right?

 

Believe you me. That deal wasn't about value. It was about Scutaro being done in Boston and going where he wanted to go to play backup for the year or two he just might, with luck, have left to his big league run. No one was going to knock the door off its hinges for the privilege of bringing Marco Scutaro onto their team.

 

We in Boston have forgotten what an actual shortstop looks like. This misplaced love for Scutaro is Exhibit A. Hopefully Iglesias can come up and remind us.

[Dojji]

A team that has 8 starters doesn't remove someone who functioned at a high level in the bullpen and convert them into a starter.

 

Yep. What a career that Curt Schilling guy made for himself as a closer, eh?

 

I'm not a fan of Bard to the rotation, but holy hell people. get a grip. It's a lot easier to finda guy like David Aardsma or Grant Balfour or Javier Lopez and get a good year out of them as a closer or MIRP than it is to find an equivalent starter, so in my mind it's exactly as simple as that.

[iortiz]

Assuming that upper management gave Baseball Operations fair warning that they were not going to spend much additional money this offseason due to the amount of money they were already committed to spend, then my one complaint is that what they did was neither fish nor fowl. They were sort of zigging one day and zagging the next.

 

I would have preferred more of an emphasis on pitching in the offseason and I could have tolerated seeing Ortiz gone as that would have signaled a complete new direction for the Sox and would have triggered a number of changes, changes that I think will be likely to forced to at some point anyway.

 

I am not saying they went into the offseason with no idea what they wanted to do although I suppose that is possible. However, I really do not like these "plans" that seem to feature a bit of this and a bit of that I would prefer they establish a definitive direction and execute to make it happen. I don't think I saw that sort of execution although I have to admit that I am on the outside looking in which could easily contribute to not seeing clearly what they had intended.

 

At any rate the whole season is in front of us and maybe things will work out after all.

 

I like Ortiz, but even without Ortiz this offense would have been solid. With 15 MUSD you could bring guys like Buehrle, Jackson, Kuroda and even keep Wheeler and probably even keep Scutaro.

 

Instead you kept Ortiz, get rid of Scu and "invested" on "pitching depth" and are betting on develop a reliever as starter.

 

I didn't like the "plan" either, but as I said only time will tell.

[Dojji]

Assuming that upper management gave Baseball Operations fair warning that they were not going to spend much additional money this offseason due to the amount of money they were already committed to spend, then my one complaint is that what they did was neither fish nor fowl. They were sort of zigging one day and zagging the next.

 

I would have preferred more of an emphasis on pitching in the offseason and I could have tolerated seeing Ortiz gone as that would have signaled a complete new direction for the Sox and would have triggered a number of changes, changes that I think will be likely to forced to at some point anyway.

 

I am not saying they went into the offseason with no idea what they wanted to do although I suppose that is possible. However, I really do not like these "plans" that seem to feature a bit of this and a bit of that I would prefer they establish a definitive direction and execute to make it happen. I don't think I saw that sort of execution although I have to admit that I am on the outside looking in which could easily contribute to not seeing clearly what they had intended.

 

At any rate the whole season is in front of us and maybe things will work out after all.

 

Ditching Ortiz could easily be the smarter move in retrospect, especially if Youkilis continues to have health problems trying to hack it at third. Eventually we might wind up needing to give Youks a lot of DH time and shift Aviles to our everyday 3B. Hopefully that's an adjustment we can make this offseason, but I'm not sure we're that lucky anymore.

 

Thing is, I have my doubts that the organization could and would have used that money to beat the price anyone paid for any of last year's rather underwhelming class of available free agents.

 

If we assume Kuroda was going to continue to lie to us about wanting to play on the West Coast right up until the moment he signed with New York, which is pretty much how it played out, the only FA I would have spent any of that money on is Buehrle. And he's much, MUCH better off in the National League.

[Elktonnick]

You only believe that because you're willfully blind about what Scutaro actually provides.

 

Who cares that his shoulder is dead, he's got back problems, he has effectively no range and can barely make the throws, right? He actually hit in September, therefore people should be lining up to take a 36 year old player with documented health problems and a fair sized contract who plays a borderline defensive game in a high leverage defensive position off our hands. Right?

 

Believe you me. That deal wasn't about value. It was about Scutaro being done in Boston and going where he wanted to go to play backup for the year or two he just might, with luck, have left to his big league run. No one was going to knock the door off its hinges for the privilege of bringing Marco Scutaro onto their team.

 

We in Boston have forgotten what an actual shortstop looks like. This misplaced love for Scutaro is Exhibit A. Hopefully Iglesias can come up and remind us.

 

Look I know all of Scuturo's faults but he was an asset who was dumped without getting sufficient compensation. It isn't just me virtually every analyst I 've heard both on the Boston media and MLB radio says the same thing. And they are all laughing at Cherries. Just like the Epstein comp deal Cherries got his pockets picked. He is acting like this is his first rodeo and everyone sees him coming.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Yep. What a career that Curt Schilling guy made for himself as a closer, eh?

 

I'm not a fan of Bard to the rotation, but holy hell people. get a grip. It's a lot easier to finda guy like David Aardsma or Grant Balfour or Javier Lopez and get a good year out of them as a closer or MIRP than it is to find an equivalent starter, so in my mind it's exactly as simple as that.

 

Curt Schilling was a starter throughout his entire minor league career and even when he was a reliever with the Orioles he was a starter in the minors and out of the bullpen/doing some starts in the majors at the time. What was even the point of bringing him up?

[Dojji]

Look I know all of Scuturo's faults but he was an asset

 

Then either you don't really know his faults, or you're underestimating them.

 

I can't think of a single team that would have paid more than a PTBNL-or-cash-considerations for Scutaro. So we're pretty much out one bit of someone's trash. If that's Cherington's worst mistake this offseason he had a damn good hot stove.

[Dojji]

Curt Schilling was a starter throughout his entire minor league career and even when he was a reliever with the Orioles he was a starter in the minors and out of the bullpen/doing some starts in the majors at the time. What was even the point of bringing him up?

 

Now you see fit to qualify it.

 

Backpedal away my good man. Backpedal away.

 

Frankly I can think of a couple instances where this team should have been a great deal more proactive in trying to stretch out their young arms. Justin Masterson stands out almost immediately as Exhibit A. So if they're going to start doing that now, even if I'm a bit leery of the specific guy, I'm still all for it.

[iortiz]

Then either you don't really know his faults, or you're underestimating them.

 

I can't think of a single team that would have paid more than a PTBNL-or-cash-considerations for Scutaro. So we're pretty much out one bit of someone's trash. If that's Cherington's worst mistake this offseason he had a damn good hot stove.

 

Letting Pap walk was his worst mistake. Ortiz was his 2nd worst mistake. Scu's departure was his 3rd worst mistake. Signing these "pitching depth" and coverting Bard as starter could be his 4th worst mistake.

[SoxSport]

Curt Schilling was a starter throughout his entire minor league career and even when he was a reliever with the Orioles he was a starter in the minors and out of the bullpen/doing some starts in the majors at the time. What was even the point of bringing him up?

 

As I recall, Schilling came up in the Red Sox farm system, spent a short time with the Sox in the bullpen, and then was traded to Baltimore. That was many lbs ago--I remember when he was skinny. His career stats show his first year as Baltimore in '88, but I remember him being in the bullpen a couple of games for the Sox. He probably never got into a game before he was traded.

[Elktonnick]

Then either you don't really know his faults, or you're underestimating them.

 

I can't think of a single team that would have paid more than a PTBNL-or-cash-considerations for Scutaro. So we're pretty much out one bit of someone's trash. If that's Cherington's worst mistake this offseason he had a damn good hot stove.

 

That's not what virtually every analyst on MLB radio had to say. But the biggest mistake this hot stove wasn't made by Cherrington but by Lucchino and Henry for giving Cherries the job of GM. He is clearly over his head and out of his depth. The only move anyone gave him any credit for was Bailey and we see how that has turned out.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Now you see fit to qualify it.

 

Backpedal away my good man. Backpedal away.

 

 

What the f*** are you talking about?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I stubbed my toe on the fireplace earlier. I blame Cherington.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I stubbed my toe on the fireplace earlier. I blame Cherington.

 

He really should of traded for/signed a good furnace.

 

We're all getting sick of these old, washed up retreads of a heating system.