Does Ben Make Move During the GM Meetings this Week?

[a700hitter]

Nah! It's not even Thanksgiving. No one is making moves yet.

[example1]

I'm glad this got its own thread. It's a very pressing question.

 

Can't we just make a "Catch-All A700 et al. Bitch About Stuff Thread"?

[a700hitter]

I'm glad this got its own thread. It's a very pressing question.

 

Can't we just make a "Catch-All A700 et al. Bitch About Stuff Thread"?

Really? I am glad you are trying to be more tolerant.

[a700hitter]

I don't recall the Sox making any significant moves during the GM Meetings over the past couple of years, but they do have a lot more holes this season.

[SoxSport]

Well, there is an urgency--after the September disaster and subsequent housecleaning.

That makes this year different. Wish they would get the Epstein compensation out of the way for starters.

 

The other thing is you want to get your dibs in before Miami sucks up every free agent on the market.

Just kidding.

[jacksonianmarch]

The GM meetings isnt typically a place where negotiations are done, it's more of a procedural meet and greet. The winter meetings coming up in a couple weeks is where the flurry will start

[CabinCreekZeke]

Starter #1 Beckett As big a jerk as he is he can still pitch when in shape.

Starter # 2 Lester Our real workhorse. He takes the ball every 5 days

Starter # 3 Bucholz Heealty he has nasty stuff

 

Excellent Top 3

 

Starter # 4 Acieves (?)

Starter #5 ???????

We need one more Front Line Pitcher to start. The Bullpen is now a real mystery. Bard and ????????

[seabeachfred]

There should be more of a sense of urgency this season because of the collapse but it looks like theRed Sox are going to go the Frank Sinatra route of "nice and easy does it every time", and, besides, what the hell can we do about it anyway. Zeke is not the first one to say that we could have a dynamite "Big Three" of Beckett, Lester and Buchholz. The fly in the ointment there is whether we can get a season of good health from each of them and whether they will get in shape and stay in shape. Aceves? Could be either a starter or reliever. I stil insist we need at least one No. 3 or 4 type starter, a slew of bullpen help (3 or 4 of them) and a RH hitting outfielder. We might be able to swing these if we let Ortiz go and have that extra $12.5 million dollars to play with.

 

One point I should make about Papi. I appreciate all he has done for us and could be the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history but he is an expensive DH, can't play defense and becomes a problem during the interleague period. Anyone fancy putting Gonzales in the outfield? Risk factor? It also blocks Ryan Lavarnway who I predicted on another board could turn out to be a very solid right hand power hitter we need so badly. Yet no matter how you cut it, Lucchino's Lancers are going to do it in their own time and we can only hope that time arrives sooner rather than later. So we wait.

[example1]

There should be more of a sense of urgency this season because of the collapse but it looks like theRed Sox are going to go the Frank Sinatra route of "nice and easy does it every time", and, besides, what the hell can we do about it anyway. Zeke is not the first one to say that we could have a dynamite "Big Three" of Beckett, Lester and Buchholz. The fly in the ointment there is whether we can get a season of good health from each of them and whether they will get in shape and stay in shape. Aceves? Could be either a starter or reliever. I stil insist we need at least one No. 3 or 4 type starter, a slew of bullpen help (3 or 4 of them) and a RH hitting outfielder. We might be able to swing these if we let Ortiz go and have that extra $12.5 million dollars to play with.

 

One point I should make about Papi. I appreciate all he has done for us and could be the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history but he is an expensive DH, can't play defense and becomes a problem during the interleague period. Anyone fancy putting Gonzales in the outfield? Risk factor? It also blocks Ryan Lavarnway who I predicted on another board could turn out to be a very solid right hand power hitter we need so badly. Yet no matter how you cut it, Lucchino's Lancers are going to do it in their own time and we can only hope that time arrives sooner rather than later. So we wait.

 

Right, we wait. Because, once again, this isn't about us. It isn't about your impatience or the impatience of other fans. It is about putting together the best team to take the field in the spring when the 2012 season starts. It is currently November of 2011.

 

The FO has been through off-seasons before. It's not like Cherington is new to this whole thing, nor is Lucchino, nor is Baird or any of the other people running this ship.

[a700hitter]

Right, we wait. Because, once again, this isn't about us. It isn't about your impatience or the impatience of other fans. It is about putting together the best team to take the field in the spring when the 2012 season starts. It is currently November of 2011.

 

The FO has been through off-seasons before. It's not like Cherington is new to this whole thing, nor is Lucchino, nor is Baird or any of the other people running this ship.

I think the question of whether there should be a sense of urgency has nothing to do with the fans. If there is a sense of urgency, it should be coming from the FO. They have lost a major player which has ripple effects throughout the pitching staff. At this point, neither Bard nor Aceves can be considered as candidates for the starting rotation. If the Yankees and even one other team execute their off season plan quicker than we do, they could take the best pitching options off the table-- and I'm not talking about Wilson, because I don't think the Sox will be moving on him. Also, if some team signs Beltran, we will be necessarily pointed towards Cuddyer driving up his price. He is a nice player, but Beltran is better. The urgency has to do with executing their off season plan. They don't want to be left with slim pickings and few options. They should always have a sense of urgency with regard to executing their plan, but they should have more urgency now, because the organization should understandably want to start heading back in the right direction. It has nothing to do with what the fans want. The FO knows they have a lot of holes now with Papelbon's departure, and there is a limited pool of players from which to fill those holes.

[example1]

I think the question of whether there should be a sense of urgency has nothing to do with the fans. If there is a sense of urgency' date=' it should be coming from the FO. They have lost a major player which has ripple effects throughout the pitching staff. At this point, neither Bard nor Aceves can be considered as candidates for the starting rotation. If the Yankees and even one other team execute their off season plan quicker than we do, they could take the best pitching options off the table-- and I'm not talking about Wilson, because I don't think the Sox will be moving on him. Also, if some team signs Beltran, we will be necessarily pointed towards Cuddyer driving up his price. He is a nice player, but Beltran is better. The urgency has to do with executing their off season plan. They don't want to be left with slim pickings and few options. They should always have a sense of urgency with regard to executing their plan, but they should have more urgency now, because the organization should understandably want to start heading back in the right direction. It has nothing to do with what the fans want. The FO knows they have a lot of holes now with Papelbon's departure, and there is a limited pool of players from which to fill those holes.[/quote']

 

Everyone agrees that they need to do something this offseason. Whether they feel a "sense of urgency" or not, I don't particularly care, nor do I pretend that I can tell whether they "feel urgency" based on whether they shell out big bucks immediately or not, nor with whether Ben Cherington decides to tell Alex Speier or some other Boston reporter about moves they might or might not make.

 

It happens here every offseason. "Why aren't we hearing anything!?!?!?" "Why aren't they doing anything??!??!?" "They are incompetent because there haven't been splashy moves yet!!!" "Ben the Boob is sitting on his thumb!?!?!??"

 

It's the same old thing and an inaccurate way of judging whether or not the team is likely to follow through on what they need to do this offseason.

[a700hitter]

It happens here every offseason. "Why aren't we hearing anything!?!?!?" "Why aren't they doing anything??!??!?" "They are incompetent because there haven't been splashy moves yet!!!" "Ben the Boob is sitting on his thumb!?!?!??"

There has been a splashy move. They let Papelbon walk. That will have a ripple effect. And yes, I am waiting for Ben the Boob to get off his thumb and make a move. He has a lot of work to do just to get back to even and make up for losing Papelbon. He's at least a couple of moves away from raising his interim grade from an I/F.

[example1]

So you would have paid Papelbon 4 years at 12.5 with a vesting 5th?

 

Would you have complained if he were only throwing 92mph after 2.5 years and couldn't be used for anything more than 7th inning duty?

 

Or, would you also reserve the right to complain about the move that you advocated for?

[a700hitter]

It's the same old thing and an inaccurate way of judging whether or not the team is likely to follow through on what they need to do this offseason.

And as you have told us many times since the end of the season, we shouldn't judge the team based on the end of the year standings. So, what should we use as a basis for determining whether the FO has had a good year... just WAR? Should we look at WAR at the beginning of the season or at the end? What is the better measure for determining success? I think that I'll stick with looking at the traditional standings.

[a700hitter]

So you would have paid Papelbon 4 years at 12.5 with a vesting 5th?

 

Would you have complained if he were only throwing 92mph after 2.5 years and couldn't be used for anything more than 7th inning duty?

 

Or, would you also reserve the right to complain about the move that you advocated for?

Yes, yes and yes.

[example1]

And as you have told us many times since the end of the season' date=' we shouldn't judge the team based on the end of the year standings. So, what should we use as a basis for determining whether the FO has had a good year... just WAR? Should we look at WAR at the beginning of the season or at the end? What is the better measure for determining success? I think that I'll stick with looking at the traditional standings.[/quote']

 

I didn't say you shouldn't judge the team based on the standings. I just advocate for people keeping a realistic view of this team and seeing that they are a really good team despite missing the playoffs by one game. They had a huge collapse, but that doesn't accurately speak to who this team is.

[example1]

Yes' date=' yes and yes.[/quote']

 

Okay, as long as we are clear.

 

You are all about "do as I say, not as I say".

 

When does the Mad Hatter's Tea Party start?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Yes' date=' yes and yes.[/quote']

 

Another question.

 

If Papelbon magically decided to suck it up all 4 years, do you blame Ben the boob?

[example1]

He's already made it clear that he would. GMs are supposed to be able to know everything about a person, including what their free will will have them do moving forward. When they are unable to do that, they should be "held accountable" for their lack of superpowers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The GM meetings isnt typically a place where negotiations are done' date=' it's more of a procedural meet and greet. The winter meetings coming up in a couple weeks is where the flurry will start[/quote']

 

Seeds are often planted in the GM meetings, and then the ideas come to fruition in the Winter Meetings. Wouldn't surprise me if some surprising rumors come out, though, and they get done in the WM.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Another question.

 

If Papelbon magically decided to suck it up all 4 years, do you blame Ben the boob?

 

Of course not. If Pap sucks in Philly it's because it's a new environment. He would have been an elite, sub-2.00 ERA closer in Boston. Duh.

[a700hitter]

I didn't say you shouldn't judge the team based on the standings. I just advocate for people keeping a realistic view of this team and seeing that they are a really good team despite missing the playoffs by one game. They had a huge collapse' date=' but that doesn't accurately speak to who this team is.[/quote']Okay I think I know what you mean. Despite finishing in third place, the 2011 Sox were good enough that they could have finished higher except for the fact that they played like a third place team. Based on this we should be encouraged that the Sox will finish in better than third place in 2012, despite the fact that after the loss of Papelbon the Sox personnel is not as good as it was when it finished in third place in 2011. Is everybody following this?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Of course not. If Pap sucks in Philly it's because it's a new environment. He would have been an elite' date=' sub-2.00 ERA closer in Boston. Duh.[/quote']

 

I was talking about if he was signed with Boston. Unless you were being sarcastic.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I was talking about if he was signed with Boston. Unless you were being sarcastic.

 

I was being sarcastic. Must have lost my edge in my hiatus. :dunno:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Another question.

 

If Papelbon magically decided to suck it up all 4 years, do you blame Ben the boob?

 

Still curious a700.

[a700hitter]

Okay, as long as we are clear.

 

You are all about "do as I say, not as I say".

 

When does the Mad Hatter's Tea Party start?

What in the world are you talking about? LOL! I advocated for keeping Papelbon. There are basically 4 possible outcomes depending on whether the Sox kept him or let him walk- 2 if he walks and 2 if he stays.

 

We did not keep him. Possibility 1-- Papelbon sucks in Philadelphia. Under that scenario, I would have been wrong and Ben would have made the right move, and I'd give him props.

 

2. Papelbon is vintage Papelbon in Philadelphia. I would be proved right and Ben gets a demerit.

 

If we kept Papelbon;

 

3. And he continued to be vintage Papelbon, both Ben and I would have been right and Ben gets props.

 

4. If Papelbon sucks in Boston, I would have been wrong and so would Ben. There is a big difference though. Unfortunately, due to his position as GM he has to take the blame for the bad move.

 

I don't know why this is hard to understand.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You can't have it both ways.

[a700hitter]

It's cute how the 3 of you have formed an alliance and staged an uprising against the King. Lol! Power to the people!! Let my people be free! Occupy TalkSox!! Lol!

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You are so full of yourself.

[a700hitter]

You can't have it both ways.

I can only have it one way-- either I am right or I am wrong. The same goes for Ben. If we are both wrong, my being wrong doesn't cancel out his mistake. He would still be wrong. You know the old saying about "two wrongs..." Unfortunately for Ben, he has to answer to JH. Still not sure I get your point. Shrugs.