Your perfect offseason

[User Name]

Not so sure why you're so adamant they're wrong. We verified that list in the 2012 financials thread. We were under the impression at the time that signing bonuses are included in the contract... if that is not true' date=' then you can factor them out, otherwise the numbers all look correct.[/quote']

 

Because of the signing bonuses in his case, and because i'm in class and i'm obviously half-assing this in my case.

[SCM33]

Baseball reference has the Sox current contracts at 126.7M.

[User Name]

Baseball reference has the Sox current contracts at 126.7M.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Can you provide a link so i can analyze it and see why i was wrong?

[Palodios]

Because of the signing bonuses in his case' date=' and because i'm in class and i'm obviously half-assing this in my case. [/quote']

 

I haven't found any official sources, but I've found many unofficial sources citing that bonuses are including in the luxury tax. Do you have a cite?

[SCM33]

THANK YOU!

 

Can you provide a link so i can analyze it and see why i was wrong?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2011-roster.shtml

 

You might have forgot Jose Iglesias @ 2.05 Million.

 

.........which brings me to my next point. Hes making 2 million dollars to barely hit his weight and with no pop down in AAA.

 

Holy s*** Theo......really??

 

EDIT: NVM, you included him.

[User Name]

I haven't found any official sources' date=' but I've found many unofficial sources citing that bonuses are including in the luxury tax. Do you have a cite?[/quote']

 

Ditto for me on not being included. I'll get back to you on that one.

[jung]

Well 117.78 + 24 is already 141.78 + 4.4 + 146.1. (131.78 is short by $10M)

 

If we add the 8.6 from dice to that number then you get 146.1 + 8.6 = 154.78

 

$186M is the LT number for 2012 I think.

 

186 - 154.78 = $31.22M

[SCM33]

Lackey: 13.83

Gonzales:21.14

Crawford: 19.42

Beckett: 17

Jenks: 6

Bucholz: 7.48

Youk: 12.25

Iglesias: 2.060

Scutaro: 5.5

Pedroia: 8.1

Lester: 5

 

117.78

 

That's the figure i came up with, taking out signing bonuses (which don't count towards AAV, i believe) from contracts and calculating my own AAV's.

 

Add 24 million from arb and you have 131.78. Add around 4.4 million for the rest of the 40-man roster.

 

I think 136 million is closer to what the current money tied up actually is.

 

Correct me on everything i may be wrong, because i think that both the other guy's numbers and mine are inaccurate.

 

+8.6 for Dice-K: 144.6

 

Your numbers are off on a couple of guys.

 

DiceK is 10M

Beckett is 15.75M

Lackey is 15.25M

Lester is 7.62M

Buchholz is 3.5M

[jung]

The site referenced has 126.7 excluding arbitration. It also shows $31.5 in arbitration. It averages the cost for the remaining players needed to fill the 25 man roster and calculates that as $2.17M...then totals everything at $160.4M

 

$126.7 + $31.5 + $2.17 = $160.37

$186 - $160.37 = $25.63

 

That is a tough number if that is correct.

 

The site I would guess is up to date as it is showing no $ in the option line for 2012 which I think would be accurate at this point.

[Palodios]

Your numbers are off on a couple of guys.

 

DiceK is 10M

Beckett is 15.75M

Lackey is 15.25M

Lester is 7.62M

Buchholz is 3.5M

 

We're talking about luxury tax totals, not actual salaries. Baseball reference's numbers are salaries, so that chart is not what we're discussing.

[jung]

OK thanks. I actually did not understand why the site numbers where being referenced in the luxury tax totals discussion. That explains it Palodius.

 

So is $154.78 the relevant number?

Well 117.78 + 24 = 141.78 + 4.4 + 146.1. (131.78 is short by $10M)

 

If we add the 8.6 from dice to that number then you get 146.1 + 8.6 = 154.78

[Palodios]

OK thanks. I actually did not understand why the site numbers where being referenced in the luxury tax totals discussion. That explains it Palodius.

 

So is $154.78 the relevant number?

Well 117.78 + 24 = 141.78 + 4.4 + 146.1. (131.78 is short by $10M)

 

If we add the 8.6 from dice to that number then you get 146.1 + 8.6 = 154.78

 

+4.16 for Scutaro

-2.65 for Lackey if 6th season option is excercised.

+ 157.02 for my original estimate

------------------------------------------------------------

158.53,

 

Although, that doesn't include bonuses for players who reached milestones. Ellsbury's 600 PA, 3 gold gloves, 6 all-stars, 3-4 silver sluggers, 1 mvp... the full contract details don't appear to be available, but it looks like that'll be about an extra million, and performance bonuses ARE included, I can confirm that one.

[jung]

Yes as are signing bonuses. If anybody wants something to help them fall asleep the current CBA is posted on the Internet in several places. The "competitive balance tax" section starts on page 83. The language regarding signing bonuses and other bonuses including performance and awards bonuses begins on page 91 and runs to page 92.

[Palodios]

Yes as are signing bonuses. If anybody wants something to help them fall asleep the current CBA is posted on the Internet in several places. The "competitive balance tax" section starts on page 83. The language regarding signing bonuses and other bonuses including performance and awards bonuses begins on page 91 and runs to page 92.

 

Thanks!!

 

 

That means Atwork's totals are in fact correct. He overestimated the performance bonuses by quite a bit, so we're looking at roughly 26-27 million to spend.

[jung]

Funny, as one of my earlier posts indicates the first number I arrived at (via wild averaging while using correct calculations) and tried to use for this exercise if GMing was $27M. So I already know what a pain in the ass number that is.

 

Also, the players union has a web site and that is one of the places where the current CBA is posted. They sure are proud of that damn thing and well they should be actually.

[Palodios]

Funny' date=' as one of my earlier posts indicates the first number I arrived at (via wild averaging while using correct calculations) and tried to use for this exercise if GMing was $27M. So I already know what a pain in the ass number that is.[/quote']

 

Yeah, but you just got lucky with that:lol:

[jung]

Yeah, but you just got lucky with that

 

You are absolutely right! I did not want to take the time so the "wild ass averaging" was in my head figuring I would take the time in the calculations and maybe learn something about the "logic" of the tax basis in the process.

[User Name]

After reading through the CBA, the following figures need to be adjusted:

 

Any and all players who got a signing bonus need to apply that bonus pro-rated throughout the life of the contract, (yearly value). That means that several of the player's AAV's are off, if by a small amount.

 

Also have to factor in performance bonuses and player benefits, which are supposed around 9 million for the Sox.

[jung]

The big difference between performance and awards bonuses and signing bonuses are that bonuses in the performance/awards category are assigned in total to the specific year the performance goal or award was achieved. As User accurately notes, signing bonus amounts are pro-rated throughout the life of the contract.

 

Gee Cherington is gonna' have a fun time sharpening pencils for awhile.

 

"Honey I'm home!"

 

"Hi Ben, did you get to write a new contract today sweetheart?"

 

"No not yet. Still waiting to get some money to use to write a new contract".

 

"Don't worry dear. Fenway Park was not built in a day ya' know".

 

Not this bad I know. Although I should have been thinkin' about this when the Sox announced that they were postponing AGons signing until they had actually gotten into the next Luxury Tax Year. Remember that? That was surely a sign that they were bouncing around right at the limits and were only being saved by the fact that the Tax limit keeps going up.

[Nirvana]

Sign:

 

Pap

Ortiz

Buehrle

Grady Sizemore

Hiroki Kuroda

Ryan Madson

Ramon Hernandez

 

Rotation:

 

Lester

Becket

Bucholz

Buerle

Kuroda

 

C: Hernandez

1B: Gonzo

2B: Pedey

SS: Scutaro

3B: Youk

RF: Sizemore

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

DH: Ortiz

 

Bench:

 

Lavarnway

Reddick

Kalish

Lowrie

 

Bullpen:

 

Aceves

Bard

Jenks

Pap

Madson

Dubront

Moreals

 

Trades: Send Salty somewhere for a AA ball Utility player and cash.

[User Name]

Some of these ideas don't seem very realistic though (Not to say they're dumb or anything, just to add some perspective):

 

1) Buehrle is likely not leaving Chicago.

2) Sizemore is frail and doesn't really bring anything to the table that Reddick or Kalish can't provide.

3)Bell is going to sign as a closer, so is Madson.

4) The Sox don't have enough money to pull off all of those moves.

[Nirvana]

Some of these ideas don't seem very realistic though (Not to say they're dumb or anything, just to add some perspective):

 

1) Buehrle is likely not leaving Chicago.

2) Sizemore is frail and doesn't really bring anything to the table that Reddick or Kalish can't provide.

3)Bell is going to sign as a closer, so is Madson.

4) The Sox don't have enough money to pull off all of those moves.

 

As stated its perfect offseason not realistic offseason.

 

Madson will sign as a Setup man if thats where the money is.

[User Name]

As stated its perfect offseason not realistic offseason.

 

Madson will sign as a Setup man if thats where the money is.

 

I did say in the intro to try to make it realistic.

 

Also, i don't think he'd make more money as a setup man than as closer. The Soriano signing is the exception that proves the rule, and is unlikely to become a trend.

[Jwmann2]

Papelbon is the most vital to re-sign. Good closers are hard to find. Red sox fans should be more concerned with how competent the new gm is and what his style is. Does he know how to spend the money because even having a lot of it does not guarantee success (Cubs).