Sox Pitchers Drank Beer in the Dugout During Games--WHDH TV

[jung]

AGons has his two GG's to Youks 1 at 1st. My comments were more directed at the way Youk has been moving in the field the last year or more. However it just about does not matter as there is little doubt that Youk would play a very competent 1st base. Even with AGons playing better in the field, when one considers all the moving pieces, Beltri, prospects, AGons, VMart, Ortiz, either Salty or Tek if we had not gone after AGons, it would have almost forced the other route that both you and I seem to be suggesting. Heck I would have given Theo Crawford since I have never been convinced the Ells wants to stay here past this current contract. However, Theo has had something of a penchant for painting himself into a corner as now I doubt we will ever know for sure if Ells would have stayed or not.

 

I commented in an earlier thread that the AGons deal, the one that is generally accepted as a success that has bothered me more than the Crawford deal and I was not happy about the Crawford deal. The Crawford deal to me had an impact on what you might do with Ells but going after AGons has an impact on what you did with Youk with Beltri, and by extension how you thought about the DH which brought Ortiz and VMart into the picture and then prospects as you mentioned.

[jung]

I should add that I have this feeling that Ellsbury looks back on being moved from his natural position in Center as a key ingredient to his having been run over by Beltri on the play that caused his injury and then we will remember that Ells injury was another that was not handled very well by Sox medical staff. Then when Ells decides that he would like to get as far away from that same medical staff as possible and rehab in Arizona, he gets landed on by Youk. Frankly I think Ells has good reason not to want to come back here.

[Gringo]

I suppose the Sox could have tried to make a run at keeping Beltri. The Rangers offered him $14M per so it would have taken some number better than that to keep him. If they kept Beltri they could have moved Youk to first base which given his propensity to break down might be a better spot for him than 3rd. If they had Youk at first and Beltri at 3rd, that would have been another right handed bat in the line up.

 

Suppose they had kept VMart as well and had passed on AGons and Crawford. Crawford was still something of a surprise deal at the end. Whether with or without Crawford it would have been interesting to see how the Sox would have faired with Youk at 1st, Beltri at 3rd, no Agons and VMart as DH doing some catching.

 

It certainly seems that would have been a better "team". VMart is widely regarded as really good in the clubhouse, a real team guy. Hindsight is 20/20 but I do wonder how much Theo's love affair with getting AGons here drove decisions to not make serious runs at Beltri and VMart. AGons is certainly a better glove guy at 1st than Youk is.

 

I definitely wanted VMart here. The water gets a little muddier when trying to compare having Beltri and Youk instead of AGons and Youk.

 

I can't help but think VMart and Beltre wanted to get the f*ck out before the inevitable sh*t hit the fan. Who wants to stay on a sinking ship full of fat, Toby Keith listening Hee Haw drunks who don't care and have no respect for the manager or the fans?

[a700hitter]

Let me get this straight. Baseball players drinking beer is a crisis, but a manager who gets caught snorting coke in the clubhouse is a winner? The world makes no sense anymore.

[Gringo]

Let me get this straight. Baseball players drinking beer is a crisis' date=' but a manager who gets caught snorting coke in the clubhouse is a winner? The world makes no sense anymore.[/quote']

 

Did I miss this story? What manager was caught doing cocaine?

[a700hitter]

Did I miss this story? What manager was caught doing cocaine?

Ron "Crackhead" Washington

[jung]

That whole management deal in Texas is kinda' different I think, at least based on how teams were run in the past. Apparently the bench coach, Moore, actually makes all of the in-game decisions on hit and run, steal, etc. Washington does make the decisions on pitching changes and the rotation etc. It almost seams like Washington is in large part responsible for setting the overall tone for the team and the coaches get even more of the details than coaches normally get.

 

I don't wonder if more and more managers are going down this road apparently with the approval of their franchise management bosses.

[3rdManOut]

That whole management deal in Texas is kinda' different I think, at least based on how teams were run in the past. Apparently the bench coach, Moore, actually makes all of the in-game decisions on hit and run, steal, etc. Washington does make the decisions on pitching changes and the rotation etc. It almost seams like Washington is in large part responsible for setting the overall tone for the team and the coaches get even more of the details than coaches normally get.

 

I don't wonder if more and more managers are going down this road apparently with the approval of their franchise management bosses.

 

Thats very interesting. Something like that didnt happen here right? But maybe Tito was "trying" to get the other coach's to have more responsibility and it didnt work? Idk Im just doing wild guessing here. But in any event I am sure most of this will change next season. Interesting to note that other teams were doing something like this as well. I thought it was very interesting when the Globe printed the list of teams that allow beer and those that didnt. The Evil Empire was one of the ones that didnt allow it. Of course we were on the other list.

[IRON HORSE]

Ok, first and formost, what is the big deal if a pitcher who is not pitching drinks beer, fried chicken, and plays video games? I know all this may lead to conditioning concerns, but if a pithcer (Lackey, Beckett, Lester) is not playing then really who cares? Now, I know some may say they are members of the team and they should be out in the dugout with their team. I get that but is this really such a big issue that the media is blowing it up to be? It is really sad to see a bunch of fingers being pointed as to who was at fault for the infamous "September Collapse" as in my opinion you cannot just point at merely one player and deem them a "scapegoat". We lost Theo and Tito, and judging by the popular consensus in this forum people are glad to see them go. Do you not remember all the success they brought to this franchise? Do you not remember all the injuries we had during this season? Nobody is perfect so give Crawford a chance for he missed that catch, big deal it happens. This is his first year in a Sox uniform and coming from the Tampa limelight to the Boston limelight will and I repeat WILL take a while to get used to. It would be nice to see John Farrell come back to Boston but the price for his compensation may be a lot.

[SoxSport]

I see that MLB says it will investigate "drinking in the Red Sox dugout."

 

All because the Globe broke a story with no named sources that the FO and the players denied.

 

MLB knows the score about beer. Heck, it's probably in practically every clubhouse drink machine in baseball. I saw a picture of beer bottles in the visitor's clubhouse machine at Fenway.

 

What I think is happening here is an effort by MLB to save face--with the Red Sox as the victim.

 

If I were Henry, next season, I would bar all alcohol from the clubhouse and the press box. Before and after games.

Drinking alcohol, that is.

[SoxSport]

Thats very interesting. Something like that didnt happen here right? But maybe Tito was "trying" to get the other coach's to have more responsibility and it didnt work? Idk Im just doing wild guessing here. But in any event I am sure most of this will change next season. Interesting to note that other teams were doing something like this as well. I thought it was very interesting when the Globe printed the list of teams that allow beer and those that didnt. The Evil Empire was one of the ones that didnt allow it. Of course we were on the other list.

 

It's hard for the fan to know what the relationships are with the manager, coaches, players, etc on a team. because the media doesn't talk about it.

 

Under the circumstances, it's difficult to understand why any of the Red Sox coaches should be asked back.

 

It's surprising the Yankees are stricter than the Red Sox. On the other hand, Steinbrenner is not Henry--by a longshot. Just about polar opposites, personality-wise.

[Cairns_Sox]

Ok' date=' first and formost, what is the big deal if a pitcher who is not pitching drinks beer, fried chicken, and plays video games? I know all this may lead to conditioning concerns, but if a pithcer (Lackey, Beckett, Lester) is not playing then really who cares? Now, I know some may say they are members of the team and they should be out in the dugout with their team. I get that but is this really such a big issue that the media is blowing it up to be? It is really sad to see a bunch of fingers being pointed as to who was at fault for the infamous "September Collapse" as in my opinion you cannot just point at merely one player and deem them a "scapegoat". We lost Theo and Tito, and judging by the popular consensus in this forum people are glad to see them go. Do you not remember all the success they brought to this franchise? Do you not remember all the injuries we had during this season? Nobody is perfect so give Crawford a chance for he missed that catch, big deal it happens. This is his first year in a Sox uniform and coming from the Tampa limelight to the Boston limelight will and I repeat WILL take a while to get used to. It would be nice to see John Farrell come back to Boston but the price for his compensation may be a lot.[/quote']

 

In regards to the Theo and Tito comment - I appreciate what those two guys helped bring to Boston. But at the end of the day, they contributed to this current mess. You can't live off your name and past achievements forever.

[SoxSport]

The Globe and Herald treatments of Epstein is an interesting contrast.

Today, Callahan put it to Epstein, for fumbling the ball the last few years. Silverman as well.

 

The Globe, on the other hand, has focussed on the "two rings." I don't suppose that $50K ad Epstein took out in the Globe had anything to do with it.

 

The Globe slant on the Red Sox has been one-sided. Blame it on the players and the ownership, but not on the management that actually ran the team--the manager and the GM. Tito wasn't completely left off the hook with disclosure of the personal stuff, but he hasn't been held responsible for his laxity with the players. This is a big negative for the Globe. Nor have they put any emphasis on Theo's declining judgement the last couple of years.

 

Speaking of Tito, I would like to know less about his pill-taking and more about his skirt-chasing. Hazel Mae, for example, has disappeared from the MLB.com radar. Gone. And Heidi? Just a bit envious, that's all. Bull Durham is alive and well.

[Dawgma]

This was a Terry Thing... Players Manager.... No leadership, just cave in to the brats wishes and look the other way. That's not how it works... Manage with respect not fear.

 

What would Bellichick do? Bye Bye!