So, we're starting over. Expectations?

[Muggah]

I posted that I thought he would make a good CATCHER'S COACH' date=' not a manager. Thats a long ways off, as PA stated.[/quote']

 

I never want to see either one of these two greedy, self-serving *******s anywhere near Fenway Park again. They're both disgustingly selfish pigs. That C of Putritek's shirt is for Clown--and unless he's coming back wearing the whole clown suit he is not welcome, IMO. And as for Wakefield--the puke is nothing short of an extortionist. But you can't totally blame him. The pink hat and pollyanna faction of the fanbase, as well as management and ownership are to blame as well for continuing to enable this putrid fat pig. If I never see his fat, sulking puss again it'll be too soon. I have zero respect for both.

[ORS]

I never want to see either one of these two greedy' date=' self-serving *******s anywhere near Fenway Park again. They're both disgustingly selfish pigs. That C of Putritek's shirt is for Clown--and unless he's coming back wearing the whole clown suit he is not welcome, IMO. And as for Wakefield--the puke is nothing short of an extortionist. But you can't totally blame him. The pink hat and pollyanna faction of the fanbase, as well as management and ownership are to blame as well for continuing to enable this putrid fat pig. If I never see his fat, sulking puss again it'll be too soon. I have zero respect for both.[/quote']

Wakefield as an extortionist?

 

You are going to have to explain that one. The guy agreed to a club option at $4M in perpetuity, at a time when he was pitching well enough to command a salary north of $10M per year. All while filling whatever role they could dream up for him. All because he liked the organization and wanted to stay for as long as they would have him. That's a pretty selfless act.

 

Sure, his performance has slipped quite a bit since then, and I agree that it's time for Tim to hang them up, or at least for the team to move on if he still wants to play, but the facts don't jibe with that accusation.

[VA Sox Fan]

I posted that I thought he would make a good CATCHER'S COACH' date=' not a manager. Thats a long ways off, as PA stated.[/quote']

 

I know what you meant, I was just pointing out that he won't have to coach/manage ever financially. He'll probably want to enjoy being out the baseball life/schedule for a long time after he retires.

[FredLynn]

Wakefield as an extortionist?

 

You are going to have to explain that one. The guy agreed to a club option at $4M in perpetuity, at a time when he was pitching well enough to command a salary north of $10M per year. All while filling whatever role they could dream up for him. All because he liked the organization and wanted to stay for as long as they would have him. That's a pretty selfless act.

 

Sure, his performance has slipped quite a bit since then, and I agree that it's time for Tim to hang them up, or at least for the team to move on if he still wants to play, but the facts don't jibe with that accusation.

 

I gotta say that I lost a lot of respect for the guy-all of it, actually, when he pronounced that "The fans deserve a chance to see me go for the record" in terms of wins by a Sox pitcher. I thought this was a team game. This me me me attitude is responsible for us not making the playoffs this year.

[Muggah]

Wakefield as an extortionist?

 

You are going to have to explain that one. The guy agreed to a club option at $4M in perpetuity, at a time when he was pitching well enough to command a salary north of $10M per year. All while filling whatever role they could dream up for him. All because he liked the organization and wanted to stay for as long as they would have him. That's a pretty selfless act.

 

Sure, his performance has slipped quite a bit since then, and I agree that it's time for Tim to hang them up, or at least for the team to move on if he still wants to play, but the facts don't jibe with that accusation.

 

Sorry, but that's head in the sand rationale, IMO. What we heard from this ******* in front of the national media two hours before the team's biggest game of the season two weeks ago is the same stuff he's been dropping behind the scenes for years now. What we saw that day is the REAL guy, not the fictional 'selfless' media invented saint. He's an *******, and a self-centered ******* at that. It's about time people found out what this guy's really been about all along.

[jung]

It would be generous to categorize Wake as a $10M per player. Wake actually made a pretty smart move for a guy in his position at the time. I think he recognized that the best way for him to go forward given that the team had to carry a catcher for his knuckler, and given that he really only had one very good year amongst many decent years where in the main he ate mucho innings. $4M is a good deal of money and I think Wake knew that it was way better for him to take a home team discount and allow the Sox to factor his innings eating characteristic and willingness to pitch anywhere against $4M instead of testing the water looking for max money every year. If Wake had gotten onto the treadmill of switching teams regularly he might easily have been bounced out of baseball long ago.

 

There are very few knucklers out there anymore and this whole thing of carrying a catcher for a guy like Wake gets old. The Sox had him, knew how to use him and both parties got a benefit for it.

 

Don't kid yourself. Wake was not doing anybody any favors with that $4M forever deal. That was very shrewd on his part particularly since a proposal like that must come from the player. The FO will never come up with an idea like that.

[Brennan]

Pumps? Muggah? Are we abandoning the old ship?

[FredLynn]

Pumps? Muggah? Are we abandoning the old ship?

 

I would say that we are floating between the two right now. I have been here for a while, actually, and I like it here. The people are generally knowledgable and respectful and willing to engage in good debates without all the nonsense, without all the cute pictures.

For my part, I will mostly be here, but will not abandon home yet.

[SoxSport]

We'll see if Henry has the balls to get rid of the deadwood.

 

So far, so good. He has gotten rid of Tito and Theo. Now get rid of the coaching staff.

[FredLynn]

We'll see if Henry has the balls to get rid of the deadwood.

 

So far, so good. He has gotten rid of Tito and Theo. Now get rid of the coaching staff.

 

And the medical staff and the conditioning staff............and several players.

Two years, maybe three.

This is why it was so important for the Rays to beat us out this year. I doubt we would be discussing these changes if we had made the playoffs.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the problem is the culture in the clubhouse, then they need to purge themselves of some of the leaders in that clubhouse and they need to hire a gritty manager. I think this collapse sits pretty heavy with the sox franchise and if they arent able to change the culture, that team will do nothing.

[SoxSport]

And the medical staff and the conditioning staff............and several players.

Two years, maybe three.

This is why it was so important for the Rays to beat us out this year. I doubt we would be discussing these changes if we had made the playoffs.

 

I'll buy that. I also think Dave Martinez will be the next manager.

 

He's the guy who can turn Crawford around. And don't think that isn't a $140 million priority.

 

P.S. I remember when Pumpsie came up. First black player. 2nd baseman. Didn't last long.

Not exactly Willie Mays, who they could have had in the 40s.

[ORS]

It would be generous to categorize Wake as a $10M per player. Wake actually made a pretty smart move for a guy in his position at the time. I think he recognized that the best way for him to go forward given that the team had to carry a catcher for his knuckler, and given that he really only had one very good year amongst many decent years where in the main he ate mucho innings. $4M is a good deal of money and I think Wake knew that it was way better for him to take a home team discount and allow the Sox to factor his innings eating characteristic and willingness to pitch anywhere against $4M instead of testing the water looking for max money every year. If Wake had gotten onto the treadmill of switching teams regularly he might easily have been bounced out of baseball long ago.

 

There are very few knucklers out there anymore and this whole thing of carrying a catcher for a guy like Wake gets old. The Sox had him, knew how to use him and both parties got a benefit for it.

 

Don't kid yourself. Wake was not doing anybody any favors with that $4M forever deal. That was very shrewd on his part particularly since a proposal like that must come from the player. The FO will never come up with an idea like that.

He signed the perpetual option contract prior to the '06 season. Prior to that, he was coming off of a 3 yr/$13.5 M deal for '03 - '05. During those 3 years he made 66 starts, pitching 616 innings with a 4.20-ish ERA. Keep in mind this is during an era where the AL average team ERA was in the 4.60-ish range. Matt Morris got a 3 yr / $9M per year deal after putting up similar numbers when you adjust for the fact that he pitched in the NL, Paul Byrd got 2 yr / $7.5M per year going from LA to Cleveland, Esteban Loaiza got 3 yr / $7M per going to Oakland. Maybe $10M+ is pushing it, but he was better than all these guys, and he could have easily doubled his annual salary, and easily received an offer of at least 3 years. He left a lot of money on the table. I won't get into speculation about his motives, but regardless, that a selfless act, IMO (regardless of whatever comments he made regarding his legacy this year).