BUILD WITHIN? FREE AGENTS?

[doctorron]

Many things went wrong, lack of pitching depth is high on the list. We should build from within. But I want some free agents - pitching and otherwise! Who's out there? What are the chances?

[Dojji]

You cannot undo what has been done to this team by bringing in more overpriced entitled free agents out after their big payday.

 

Bring in young, hungry kids and old, hungry veterans. That's the recipe that cooked us up two rings. This crew is not desperate enough to win when the chips are down.

[SoxSport]

The answer is both. Building within is better, but takes time. Free agents are quick fixes if you have the money, but they are grossy overpaid and coming off contracts years you usually never see again.

 

The other option is trading. Often salary dumping, nowadays. You can get good players that way, taking on salary, but you can't unload your bad ones without eating salary. It's a tough world.

[jacksonianmarch]

With 3 yrs of Lackey left, DiceK still on the books, and three top flight starters locked up long term, I doubt the sox make a humongous FA splash in the rotation. The sox arent as broken as they seem, they just need to be healthy and they need to have a viable starting option as their swing man.

[jung]

It is not that the Sox are so broken, it is just that the fixin' covers so many different bodies.

Crawford must be fixed

Youk must rehab and a formula that gets him more rest each season must be found

AGons needs the same rest formula. The answer is in how the Sox handle the DH

Right field must find a right fielder

SS must have a new answer by 2013 as Scuts will do for 2012

Lackey must be fixed or sent packing

Dice must continue to rehab but won't be available for 2012 leaving another SP hole to be fixed

Beckett must be fixed

Lester must be fixed

Bard must be fixed

Conditioning across the board must be fixed but baseball teams don't control the condition of the player

front office must be fixed as it is clearly broken

Manager must be found

GM might have to be found

Clubhouse must be fixed

 

That is a fair amount of s*** going on all at once

[doctorron]

All good points. I agree about RF and SS. A strong number # 2 style SP would be great. When lester started bringing his game down I think that was a clear sign the environment was for shite. Of coarse losing begets losing.

[a700hitter]

With 3 yrs of Lackey left' date=' DiceK still on the books, and three top flight starters locked up long term, I doubt the sox make a humongous FA splash in the rotation. The sox arent as broken as they seem, they just need to be healthy and they need to have a viable starting option as their swing man.[/quote']I think they are raising their payroll cap. What happened this season was damaging to the franchise. They need to comeback strong. Merely being competitive will not be good enough.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If they increase their payroll, which they very well may do, I would expect them to do it via trades, i.e. trading a few prospects for a higher end pitcher.

 

Or Theo to the Cubs for Garza.

[jacksonianmarch]

If they increase their payroll, which they very well may do, I would expect them to do it via trades, i.e. trading a few prospects for a higher end pitcher.

 

Or Theo to the Cubs for Garza.

 

Theo for Garza? LOLOLOL!!

[Spitball]

If they increase their payroll' date=' which they very well may do, I would expect them to do it via trades, i.e. trading a few prospects for a higher end pitcher.[/quote']

 

Is there a team with a higher end pitcher that woud trade for prospects? Do the Sox have the prospects to bring a higher end pitcher?

 

Or Theo to the Cubs for Garza.

 

Would the Cubs really trade Garza for Epstein? I think Epstein's stock is down while Garza's worth to be the Cubs outweighs their need for a gm. There are lots of qualified candidates out there.

[Spitball]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

 

•Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts likes the Red Sox organization, not just Epstein, according to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com (on Twitter). That could mean the Cubs are interested in assistant GM Ben Cherington.

•The Red Sox would surely demand and obtain compensation if the Cubs hire Epstein, so Dave Cameron of FanGraphs wonders how much he is worth. Cameron isn't sure that spending big on recognizable executives makes sense, since there's a steady supply of qualified candidates who are available more cheaply.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Theo for Garza? LOLOLOL!!

 

It was a joke, FWIW.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Is there a team with a higher end pitcher that woud trade for prospects? Do the Sox have the prospects to bring a higher end pitcher?

 

Would the Cubs really trade Garza for Epstein? I think Epstein's stock is down while Garza's worth to be the Cubs outweighs their need for a gm. There are lots of qualified candidates out there.

 

Sox don't have the high end prospects right now, but they can deal Ellsbury to the Braves for some high end prospects, and then flip those prospects to a team like SEA for a guy like Felix.

 

It's actually a perfect sell-high opportunity for the Sox, and if they feel as though Boras is going to go year to year (which he almost certainly will), and that Ellsbury will demand Crawford-type money (which he almost certainly will), then it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to call up Seattle and ask what they would want between the Sox organization and the Braves organization for Felix. If they can get what the Mariners want, then you're basically trading Ellsbury + 1-2 prospects for Felix. And I pull the trigger on that deal all day, especially with Kalish in the wings.

 

And I was joking about Theo for Garza. It was more of a dig at the Marlins for trading for Ozzie.

[iortiz]

If they increase their payroll, which they very well may do, I would expect them to do it via trades, i.e. trading a few prospects for a higher end pitcher.

 

Or Theo to the Cubs for Garza.

 

I'm not sure what is Theo's WAR these days but I'd make the deal in a heartbeat.

[Spitball]

Sox don't have the high end prospects right now, but they can deal Ellsbury to the Braves for some high end prospects, and then flip those prospects to a team like SEA for a guy like Felix.

 

It's actually a perfect sell-high opportunity for the Sox, and if they feel as though Boras is going to go year to year (which he almost certainly will), and that Ellsbury will demand Crawford-type money (which he almost certainly will), then it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to call up Seattle and ask what they would want between the Sox organization and the Braves organization for Felix. If they can get what the Mariners want, then you're basically trading Ellsbury + 1-2 prospects for Felix. And I pull the trigger on that deal all day, especially with Kalish in the wings.

 

And I was joking about Theo for Garza. It was more of a dig at the Marlins for trading for Ozzie.

 

I agree on selling high on Ellsbury, but with Heywood, Bourne, and Costanza, would they still be desperate enough for Ellsbury? Heywood suffered from the sophmore jinx but is still a highly thought of player.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Heyward is a good player, but they need a middle-of-the-order bat, and that's exactly what Ellsbury could be for them. He could easily be a #3 hitter in that line up. Or even a number 2 hitter.

[Spitball]

Heyward is a good player' date=' but they need a middle-of-the-order bat, and that's exactly what Ellsbury could be for them. He could easily be a #3 hitter in that line up. Or even a number 2 hitter.[/quote']

 

But would they sell their farm when they have Bourn, Heyward, and Costanza locked up for a couple more years? It might work if Heyward was included, but he is locked up through 2015. If not for an injury, he would have been a middle of their order guy this year.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In a piece for the Globe, Nick Cafardo writes about what the Sox should ask for in return if Theo goes to the Cubs. Here's the beginnings of what he writes:

 

If the Cubs ask for and receive permission to speak to Theo Epstein, it must come with major trade provisions.

 

The Red Sox need to ask for the moon in order to complete this transaction. We know that baseball is not like football, in which you can trade draft picks, but you’ll recall that the Jets received a No. 1 pick to allow Bill Belichick to go to the Patriots in 2000.

 

Why should this be different?

 

Why would the Red Sox just let Epstein go for a prospect or two like the White Sox recently did with the Marlins in the Ozzie Guillen deal?

 

If you want Epstein, the man you believe will turn your organization around, you have to be willing to pay a steep price, just like the Patriots did.

 

What can the Red Sox do?

 

■ In addition to Epstein, you trade, as some bloggers have suggested, John Lackey and the remainder of his contract to the Cubs. That would give the Cubs a Carlos Zambrano-Lackey tandem. Good luck, Theo.

 

■ Ask for shortstop Starlin Castro. Why not? Give them Jose Iglesias back if you must, but giving up Castro would hurt, and you have to make the Cubs hurt for wanting to take your GM.

 

■ Ask for pitcher Matt Garza. He’s the Cubs’ best righthander who is American League East battle-tested. Unreasonable? Why be reasonable?

 

Pretty interesting ideas there. I like the Starlin Castro idea, even if it did mean giving up Iglesias with him.

 

The Garza idea, I was joking about, and I don't think that would ever happen.

[Palodios]

In a piece for the Globe, Nick Cafardo writes about what the Sox should ask for in return if Theo goes to the Cubs. Here's the beginnings of what he writes:

 

 

 

Pretty interesting ideas there. I like the Starlin Castro idea, even if it did mean giving up Iglesias with him.

 

The Garza idea, I was joking about, and I don't think that would ever happen.

 

You think Garza is unreasonable? They're talking about dropping the Lackey contract

[Emmz]

But would they sell their farm when they have Bourn' date=' Heyward, and [b']Costanza[/b] locked up for a couple more years? It might work if Heyward was included, but he is locked up through 2015. If not for an injury, he would have been a middle of their order guy this year.

 

I think if we traded them two guys named Seinfeld and Kramer they would give us Heyward just for the hell of it. We could through in a Newman and a Benes too if we had to.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You think Garza is unreasonable? They're talking about dropping the Lackey contract

 

Haha true.

 

How funny would it be for Henry to say "Alright Theo. You can leave. But you have to take your s*** with you." and give them Lackey's contract. That would be awesome.

[Palodios]

Haha true.

 

How funny would it be for Henry to say "Alright Theo. You can leave. But you have to take your s*** with you." and give them Lackey's contract. That would be awesome.

 

Well, how about we go about this a little bit more reasonably, and say Dice-k?

[Emmz]

Dice's contract just isn't bad enough to want to dump. Now if we could get them to reimburse us for the posting fee......

[Palodios]

Dice's contract just isn't bad enough to want to dump. Now if we could get them to reimburse us for the posting fee......

 

This team could do some really big things if they had an extra 10 million this year. Considering we're talking about giving up one year of an executive, it might be a bit more reasonable. But then again, will Theo have Type A free agent status at the end of 2012?

[Spitball]

I think if we traded them two guys named Seinfeld and Kramer they would give us Heyward just for the hell of it. We could through in a Newman and a Benes too if we had to.

Haha! But, really that outfield should belong to the Yankees.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Surely we have insurance on DiceK's contract. We should have insurance on any contract > 10mm. If that's the case, we can get a portion of his $$$ back.

[doctorron]

Surely we have insurance on DiceK's contract. We should have insurance on any contract > 10mm. If that's the case' date=' we can get a portion of his $$$ back.[/quote']

 

Insurance seems like such a secretive thing is baseball - I never hear the numbers involved.

[Palodios]

Surely we have insurance on DiceK's contract. We should have insurance on any contract > 10mm. If that's the case' date=' we can get a portion of his $$$ back.[/quote']

 

I read a report that insurance on players is only available for the first three years of the contract.

[wyo-sox]

I love the idea of Theo, Lackey trade for Garza. That would make me happy happy happy- which I am certain is what the ownership is concerned about.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Whew. That's a bit of a pipe dream. If we could get Theo to take Lackey off our books if he went to the Cubs, I'd be thrilled. I think Ben Cherington would fill in nicely for Theo, if need be. I still think Theo should stay with the club. He's done far, far, far more good than bad. I'll take Ellsbury, Pedroia, Gonzo, Ortiz, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Scutaro, Lavarnway, Aceves, Papelbon, Beltre, VMart all day, even if it does mean the occasional John Lackey/DiceK Matsuzaka contract.