Who SHOULD be fired instead of Tito and Theo

[chris wilcox]

As a life long Red Sox fan, never in my 39 years have I been more embarrassed of a team than I am today, of the 2011 Boston Red Sox. A more pitiful bunch of chokers, there could not be, as evidenced by their historic Sept. The Rays won nothing, the Red Sox just sucked.

I hear people calling for Tito and Theo to be fired: PLEASE! If you want to fire someone, fire the players who played very well for nearly an entire season and then decided to fold for the final month. I can tell you who should be fired:

1. John Lackey. The most over-paid, over-rated, over-weight, piece of garbage in the game. John Lackey, YOU SUCK! You have never been able to handle the pressure in Boston and you never will. Go eat another Dunkin Donut. Nuff said.

2. Carl Crawford. What a poser. 5-6 skill player? Get real. His fielding and throwing was a joke, he hit .250 and he was about as clutch as Jean Van de Velde. Crawford, you are a JOKE. Might as well have put Wily Mo Pena out there.

3. Beckett. You sucked the last month. There is no excuse. You are supposed to be a shut down pitcher. There is no reason why you can dominate the whole season and then totally lose it the last month. You choked

4. Lester. You choked. Pitiful. The best lefty in the game? Apparently not

5. Daniel Bard. What happened to you? Did you start getting counseling from Eric Gagne? Pitiful

6. Papelbon. You suck. You want to act like one of the games elite closers? I got news for you, my friend: great players come up big in big situations. You blew leads at the end of the season that could have saved your team. Mariano Rivera you are not.

7. Eric Bedard. Real good. 85 pitches over 3 innings, real impressive. Go back to AAA.

8. Darnell McDonald. Really? Hits about .170 in between playing a terrible outfield and getting caught stealing. This was the best they could come up with? You suck, Darnell

9. JD Drew. As usual a disappearing act. At least you play a decent outfield when you are in, but can't count on you for anything.

10. Wakefield. I got news for you people, Wake gave them about what he does every year. He eats up a lot of innings and always has an ERA between 4 and 5. I remember many games down the stretch where he gave up 3 earned, but left behind 6 runs because Crawford couldn't bother to catch a ground ball to the outfield, so it rolled to the wall and let to unearned score. Don't blame Wake.

11. Any other relief pitcher not named Alfredo Aceves SUCKED, especially down the strech.

12. Weiland. Why the hell was he even in there? To pad the other teams stats? What happened to Andrew Miller, at least he tossed a couple of decent games.

 

The bad part is, there were some guys that played with a ton of heart on this team and did not choke:

1.Jacoby Elsbury. MVP. Period.

2. Adrian Gonzales. Excellent first year. Faded a bit down the stretch, but carried the team for periods. Great.

3. Pedroia. As usual, shouldered the team. Deserves a ton of credit for an excellent year.

4. Ortiz. Who thought he would have this kind of year. Big Papi was excellent all year long. Incredible year.

5. Scutaro. Big ups. In a strange situation with Lowie, put in a stellar year, especially down the stretch. Quality guy=quality player.

6. Saltalamacchia/Varitek. Sox got WAY more production from this position than they had any right to expect.

 

Jed Lowrie has been revealed as the utility player that he should be. Nothing more, nothing less. Reddick is decent, but doesn't have much of a grip on playing Right. He cost the Sox several games with his glove. Needs work.

 

Sure, Youkilis being injured didn't help. But, there is no excuse for so many 'big time' 'clutch' players playing so badly for a month at a time and ruining a season for the guys who had some heart.

You all should be ashamed.

[TedWilliams101]

So you are going to cut the entire team? Tito can't manage this team, he has no control over the guys. We need a manager that has full control, is hard on his players, expects perfection, but gets respect from the results and work he puts in himself. If our players aren't willing to be a part of that, then they need to be released or traded.

 

I agree that a lot of the players are to blame and we definitely need to make a lot of player moves, but the problem goes far beyond that. The entire culture of this team needs to change and that starts at the top.

[iMagic10]

I agree with all your points, but I do think that Tito and Theo should be fired.

 

They are in control of this team. They worked well during the middle of the season. And then they left dung on the bed.

[TedWilliams101]

I agree with all your points, but I do think that Tito and Theo should be fired.

 

They are in control of this team. They worked well during the middle of the season. And then they left dung on the bed.

 

I'm not sure Theo should be fired as I don't think there is anyone better to replace him right now. As long as he realizes that he himself made plenty of mistakes we'll be fine. It's like asking for Belichicks head after 3-straight playoff losses. He's still one of the best coaches in the game and he takes 100% responsibility of everything that happens. You just want to see him right the ship and win another championship. Same goes for Theo.

 

That said, I won't panic if Theo is gone. I just think they need to make sure they upgrade the position if the let him go to CHI.

[d-money]

Someone has to pay for the disaster.Have to make an example that failure is not accepted.Thats two seasons without making the post-season.They should fire Francona!Thanks for the championships

[Dojji]

No no no no no. You don't fire any staff out of revenge for a failed season. That is ridiculous. It's the way good teams become bad teams and bad teams become jokes. The end of a lost season does not need to be a witch hunt, and it shouldn't.

 

You only fire staff because you can do better, or because you'd have a hard time doing worse. Neither are true of Theo or Tito.

 

Bogar on the other hand may want to update his resume.

[TedWilliams101]

No no no no no. You don't fire any staff out of revenge for a failed season. That is ridiculous. It's the way good teams become bad teams and bad teams become jokes. The end of a lost season does not need to be a witch hunt, and it shouldn't.

 

You only fire staff because you can do better, or because you'd have a hard time doing worse. Neither are true of Theo or Tito.

 

Bogar on the other hand may want to update his resume.

 

I think you'd find many on this board who believe a corpse would make a better manager than Tito... I don't think an upgrade at the position will be that much of a challenge.

[Dojji]

I really disagree. Tito has been more than adequate and is one of the most successful managers we've ever had. I have a hard time believing that it's worth rolling the dice with a new guy unless the new guy is maybe someone internal, like Tek or DeMarlo Hale.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

No no no no no. You don't fire any staff out of revenge for a failed season. That is ridiculous. It's the way good teams become bad teams and bad teams become jokes. The end of a lost season does not need to be a witch hunt, and it shouldn't.

 

You only fire staff because you can do better, or because you'd have a hard time doing worse. Neither are true of Theo or Tito.

 

Bogar on the other hand may want to update his resume.

 

I agree with you on much of this. I think everyone right now is just upset at the horror show that was September, (and in particular the turn of events last night). I think once the WS is over and things have cooled down, people will honestly look at where you need to make improvements. I don't think you get rid of Theo. I think he did about as much at the trade deadline as he could. I would not be adverse to losing Tito. I think it is his responsibility ultimately to win. If he is kept, then I think you have to scrap some of the coaches. Bogar and Young come to mind as both needing to get their resumes updated. Maybe even the hitting coach.

[3rdManOut]

CRAWFORD NEEDS TO GO!!!! My 5 year old daughter could have caught that ball in the 9th.

[redsoxbeatz]

CRAWFORD HAD ONE [MEDIOCRE] YEAR LETS f***ING KILL HIM!! KILL HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CUT HIS PENIS OFF AND BURN HIS BODY THEN BURN FENWAY DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

lol.

 

 

threads like this are why red sox fans look like unreasonable psychos.

 

 

the team crashed and burned in september. but let's be honest folks ... it was the pitching. #1 in Runs & Hits in September. But let's still kill Crawford and everyone else who didn't do well. That includes Pedroia and Ellsbury for not hitting .406 on the season.

 

I am sad though. Time to toke up a lot.

 

Next year. Once football season ends (it goes by SO QUICK!!) the baseball season will practically be here.

[Spitball]

Curt Young. :thumbdown

[SoxSport]

The whole coaching staff needs to go, manager on down. Especially Hale, Bogar and Young.

 

If they could get Billy Beane or Hoyer for GM, I would say Theo, too. he has wasted a lot of money the past few years.

These guys win a couple of championships and think they can coast for the rest of their careers.

 

Look at what the Yankees did to Torre.

What do you think the Steinbrenners would do if they owned the Red Sox? Don't ask.

[iortiz]

I agree with all your points' date=' but [b']I do think that Tito and Theo should be fired.

[/b]

They are in control of this team. They worked well during the middle of the season. And then they left dung on the bed.

 

The whole coaching staff needs to go, manager on down. Especially Hale, Bogar and Young.

 

If they could get Billy Beane or Hoyer for GM, I would say Theo, too. he has wasted a lot of money the past few years.

These guys win a couple of championships and think they can coast for the rest of their careers.

 

Look at what the Yankees did to Torre.

What do you think the Steinbrenners would do if they owned the Red Sox? Don't ask.

 

it's time for fresh blood.

[3rdManOut]

Theo said in the press conference just a few minutes ago that there is no need to overhaul the whole team. They will look at specific situations (players I guess he means) and go from there. But I think the front office is going to look over the coaching staff as first issue of business.

[Boggs Chicken Dinner]

Who should be fired? I admittedly do not know every responsibility of every member of the coaching staff, it's not one of my strong points, but all I do know is we've had two seasons in a row where we start off slow as hell and can't keep our team healthy an entire season. Whoever has the job of being responsible for the health of this team, be it the manager, coaches, medical staff, whatever, should go, and I would think the owners of this team should be able to figure that out. Maintaining a healthy team for an entire season, no matter who's actually playing for us, should be a priority before anything else. Let's make sure we have the right staff to get the best out of our guys from game 1 to game 162 and beyond. These past two seasons have been a total failure on that front.

 

While we're at it, I'm all for removing John Lackey if humanly possible. That said, I realize he has three years and a lot of money still owed to him, but hopefully they'll be able to find a way to creatively remove or at the very least find a role where he can succeed. He's a horrible pitcher these days and by certain accounts has an attitude problem as well - not a good combination.

 

But to sum things up, health, numero uno in priorities.

[starwarsgeekperson]

Yeah, good luck getting anyone else to take lackey.

[3rdManOut]

You know what the front office should do, is fire the whole training/health staff and then go get folks from Mass General to do all that stuff. Its just a suggestion since we are all out of answeres right now.

[SoxSport]

Gasper of the Globe has about the only non status quo column over there. He correctly says Tito is at fault for the "complacent culture" on the team. That's been evident for quite a while.

 

Everybody in the media says "the biggest chokes in history, blah, blah, blah." A few say the management has to go. Much fewer in the Boston media. The players, of course, love Tito. He lets them do anything they want. Hell, he let Schilling throw 145 pitches in games at Philly.

 

I don't like Epstein's slippery comments in that press conference. Everybody's to blame, but nobody's to blame, folks.

 

I say fire Epstein, Tito and the whole coaching staff. And get a manager who's better organized and focussed on winning--the whole season. Epstein is beginning to look like a spoiled Ivy Leaguer.

[Mr Tibbs]

Sorry, but I say start with Tito and the coaching staff.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6178719227_8243cbb60e_b.jpg

 

I took this pic on Sept. 18 at a game against the Rays. I saw Tito laughing in the dugout and thought "Why the hell is he laughing??!!" They were losing the game and in the middle of a meltdown going down the stretch. If Tito can laugh in a situation like that then I think he has lost his "edge" or whatever the hell you call it. I sure as hell wasn't laughing and I'm just a fan. Time to go Tito, thanks for the championships!

[3rdManOut]

I guess it would be easier if Tito didnt seem like a nice guy in general. If they do let him go I will miss him though. He seemed like one of the better managers we had in recent memory.

[SoxSport]

I just saw a Globe poll of its readers: the vote to fire Epstein is 51-49. the vote to fire Francona is 30-70.

 

70% want Francona back? I guess in Boston nice guys are allowed to finish last. LOL.

[jacksonianmarch]

The rationale would be that Tito had no recourse but to throw s*** against a wall late.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I just saw a Globe poll of its readers: the vote to fire Epstein is 51-49. the vote to fire Francona is 30-70.

 

70% want Francona back? I guess in Boston nice guys are allowed to finish last. LOL.

 

In the era of pink hats this does not surprise me. He got the Red Sox 2 WS wins, and for a lot of people that is a free pass for him to do whatever he wants. I'm sure Francona could come into spring training next march, say at a press conference that he is not even going to manage and just throw the season away, then in September break into every home in New England and mercilessly beat every woman in child in the household and 70 percent would still want him back.

[dominicanredsox]

first feeling everyone gets is to overhaul the team but after a few days to really sit down and think things through rationally the team just needs to make some adjustments

 

first thing management should do is really look into the character of the players there bringing in..... i hate to have to question the heart of a player this 2011 redsox team looked horrible

 

second is pitching i cant blame pap for blowing that save he had been overworked in the games prior to that....bard was shaky but i feel he could bounce back ...i know everyone wants to get rid of lackey but i think he contract makes that unlikely

 

who should go some way some how jd drew youk if he doesnt get his act together and stays in shape ortiz had a good year and wants to stay so he'll take less money

[jung]

Lackey may not be that hard to move. It really boils down to how much of his contract the Sox are prepared to eat. The argument that he simply could not pitch under the Boston klieg lights may well resonate if a small market team does not have to pay more than $7-8M per for him.

 

Starting pitching commands some pretty serious money these days and I would not at all be surprised to see a team gamble a few million on Lackey hoping that he comes back to form in a different environment.

 

The receiving team front office would look pretty smart if he even got back to 75% of his last year with Anaheim. If not even if he performed much like he has here, he will be covering some of the $7-8M.

[malzone]

Tito's coaching staff plus Slackey and JD "hurt pinkie" Drew.

[Spitball]

Lackey may not be that hard to move. It really boils down to how much of his contract the Sox are prepared to eat. The argument that he simply could not pitch under the Boston klieg lights may well resonate if a small market team does not have to pay more than $7-8M per for him.

 

Starting pitching commands some pretty serious money these days and I would not at all be surprised to see a team gamble a few million on Lackey hoping that he comes back to form in a different environment.

 

The receiving team front office would look pretty smart if he even got back to 75% of his last year with Anaheim. If not even if he performed much like he has here, he will be covering some of the $7-8M.

 

I don't know. He has been so bad. Historically bad. Which team could be that horribly desperate for pitching? In the non-steroid era, outside of Boston, the scales of offense/pitching are shifting. A well below average pitcher could do better. The Sox will not get any favors from anyone where Lackey is concerned.

[Spitball]

Curt Young. :thumbdown

 

A positive move at a negative time. Young may have had success in a pitchers' park in Oakland with young pitchers, but he was the wrong man for the Boston staff.