2012 Potential Starting Lineup

[redsoxfan3]

What I want to see next year is a consistent batting order. Personally, I like:

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Ortiz

Youkilis

Reddick

Saltalamacchia

Scutaro

 

I like the first five in that lineup. I think we need to keep it consistent all year. I am tired of seeing different lineup cards almost every night. I like Scutaro at the 9 hole, he hit .299 this year and was pretty consistent, especially down the stretch. I know we have Salty and Lavarnway as potential catchers, possibly Varitek. In RF we have Reddick or possibly Kalish, depending on how things work out, we may even pickup a FA. At SS, Scutaro seems to be the best option, maybe with Lowrie and Iglesias on the bench. Depending on how Iglesias' bat progresses, I would love to give him a chance. At 3B, we have Youkilis, but if for some reason that doesn't work out, we have Middlebrooks in the wings, hopefully to take over that position one day in the future. The lineup could look like this:

 

CF- Ellsbury

LF- Crawford

2B- Pedroia

1B- Gonzalez

DH- Ortiz/Lavarnway

3B- Youkilis/Middlebrooks/Lowrie/Aviles

RF- Reddick/Kalish/McDonald

C- Saltalamacchia/Lavarnway

SS- Scutaro/Iglesias/Lowrie

 

What do you think the lineup will look like? (I know it is hard to project entirely because the offseason has not started)

 

Pitching Rotation:

1. Beckett

2. Lester

3. Buchholz

4. Bedard/Aceves/Weiland (??)

5. ??

 

Closer- Bard/Papelbon

 

Personally I would love for Bard to take over the closing role and I know Red Sox Nation probably is not a big fan of either Papelbon or Bard right now.

 

The 4 and 5 spots in the rotation are in the air. I feel at worst Bard would be there to take the ball every 5th day. Aceves is probably too valuable in the bullpen to start, but if worse comes to worse, I feel he would be a valuable 4th starter with what we have right now. I do not feel that Kyle Weiland is ready. I think we should go out and get two more solid starting pitchers, that would make me extremely happy. Please just get rid of Wakefield, Lackey, and Dice-K.

 

Who would be your starting 5 and who would you like to have as a closer? Do you want Papelbon back? Do you like Bard as the setup man and Papelbon as the closer? Any other options in the bullpen or starting rotation?

[jacksonianmarch]

That lineup will be augmented with some new blood. My guess is the sox go out and deal Reddick and Doubront for a good RFer. And I would say there is a better than 50% chance that Ortiz is gone. Guys like Youk, AdGon, Pedroia et al could use time at Dh as the season goes along and having Ortiz clog it up doesnt help them. All it does is force all their position players to play the field every game and by September, they're all dead tired.

[redsoxfan3]

That lineup will be augmented with some new blood. My guess is the sox go out and deal Reddick and Doubront for a good RFer. And I would say there is a better than 50% chance that Ortiz is gone. Guys like Youk' date=' AdGon, Pedroia et al could use time at Dh as the season goes along and having Ortiz clog it up doesnt help them. All it does is force all their position players to play the field every game and by September, they're all dead tired.[/quote']

 

Getting a good right fielder would be ideal, especially one with a consistent bat. I really would love for Big Papi to stick around, but I do agree with you on that one.

 

Here is a list of the potential Free Agent outfielders:

Outfielders

Bobby Abreu LAA *

Rick Ankiel WAS

Carlos Beltran NYM

Milton Bradley SEA

Pat Burrell SF

Mike Cameron BOS

Coco Crisp OAK

Michael Cuddyer MIN

Jack Cust SEA

Johnny Damon TB

David DeJesus OAK

J.D. Drew BOS

Kosuke Fukudome CHC

Jonny Gomes CIN

Gabe Gross OAK

Vladimir Guerrero BAL

Scott Hairston NYM

Willie Harris NYM

Raul Ibanez PHI

Conor Jackson OAK

Andruw Jones NYY

Austin Kearns CLE

Jason Kubel MIN

Ryan Ludwick SD

Hideki Matsui OAK

Nate McLouth ATL *

Jason Michaels HOU

Laynce Nix WAS

Magglio Ordonez DET

Juan Pierre CWS

Juan Rivera TOR

Cody Ross SF

Grady Sizemore CLE *

Matt Stairs WAS

Nick Swisher NYY *

Marcus Thames LAD

Josh Willingham OAK

 

*denotes player with club option for 2012

 

Here are also all the potential SP free agents:

 

Starting Pitchers

Mark Buehrle CWS

Chris Carpenter STL *

Bruce Chen KC

Aaron Cook COL *

Kyle Davies KC

Ryan Dempster CHC *

Justin Duchscherer OAK

Zach Duke ARI *

Jeff Francis KC

Freddy Garcia NYY

Jon Garland LAD *

Aaron Harang SD

Rich Harden OAK

Livan Hernandez WAS

Edwin Jackson CWS

Kenshin Kawakami ATL

Scott Kazmir LAA

Hiroki Kuroda LAD

Rodrigo Lopez CHC

Paul Maholm PIT

John Maine COL

Jason Marquis WAS

Kevin Millwood NYY

Scott Olsen PIT *

Roy Oswalt PHI *

Brad Penny DET

Oliver Perez NYM

Joel Pineiro LAA

CC Sabathia NYY (may opt out)

Carlos Silva NYY

Javier Vazquez FLA

Adam Wainwright STL *

Tim Wakefield BOS

Chien-Ming Wang WAS

Brandon Webb ARI

C.J. Wilson TEX

Chris Young NYM

 

*denotes club option for 2012

 

The list is interesting, as it will be interesting to see what the front office does in terms of free agents and also trades.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Any significant move that the Sox make this year will come via trade. They will almost certainly trade Lackey and dump 1/2 - 1/3 of his salary. To an AL West team, Lackey at 5-8mm is a pretty good pitcher. He needs a big park to throw well. He'll be gone next year.

 

Beckett is absolutely not going to throw to a 2.6 ERA next year, he'll probably be the 3.8 ERA guy that his career numbers indicate. So he'll be a solid 3 guy, with Lester and Buchholz as the 1-2 punch.

 

I can see the Sox lining up a trade for Danks and Quentin from the ChiSox.

 

I can also see the Sox working on a 3-team trade for a stud pitcher like Felix.

 

There will be no big-name FA acquisitions this season, the payroll won't allow for it. The Sox are around $170mm after arbitration + Ortiz + Papelbon. If they can dump $7mm of Lackey's salary, they'll have around $15mm of wiggle room for all of their acquisitions.

 

The biggest moves will be done via trade.

[jacksonianmarch]

SFF, the question is, who do you trade? Because like I said, you can probably get a reliable RFer (like a Francouer or maybe a Quentin) for Doubront and Reddick +. But if you are going to nab a top flight pitcher, you're gonna have to move someone from your current team. Bard, Ellsbury, etc. The sox farm is promising in a few yrs, but Bogaerts and Jacobs wont be headliners until they're AA proven. And neither of them are at this point

[SoxFanForsyth]

SFF' date=' the question is, who do you trade? Because like I said, you can probably get a reliable RFer (like a Francouer or maybe a Quentin) for Doubront and Reddick +. But if you are going to nab a top flight pitcher, you're gonna have to move someone from your current team. Bard, Ellsbury, etc. The sox farm is promising in a few yrs, but Bogaerts and Jacobs wont be headliners until they're AA proven. And neither of them are at this point[/quote']

 

For a guy like Felix, you trade Ellsbury plus some prospects, which is why it would require a 3-team trade. The Mariners can't afford Ellsbury, but there are other teams who have farm systems closer to the MLB level and can afford Ellsbury. Hell, when he hits FA, the Sox can go back and get him if they want to, and you miss 2 years of him.

 

Trade Ells + low level prospect to the Braves. Braves trade 2 good arms to Mariners + Red Sox trade someone like Lavarnway to Mariners. Mariners send Felix + prospect to Red Sox.

 

That may be entirely off, but the logistics is what I'm talking about. Trade Reddick + Doubront for Quentin. Put Quentin in LF where you can hide his fielding. Put Crawford in CF where he can use his speed. Put Kalish in RF where he can use his arm.

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Ortiz

Quentin

Youkilis

Lavarnway/Salty

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Felix

Lester

Buchholz

Beckett

Aceves

 

Again - just an idea of how it could look.

[Palodios]

That's an interesting idea-- moving Crawford to center. He's been pretty worthless in left, so it might be worth considering.

[jacksonianmarch]

Crawford was moved from CF because his D was awful in the Trop. Upton used to be an IFer and he supplanted Crawford out there. It is an interesting idea, but would you be willing to move Ellsbury for a top flight pitcher? That takes a huge chunk from your offensive production

[SoxFanForsyth]

Crawford was moved from CF because his D was awful in the Trop. Upton used to be an IFer and he supplanted Crawford out there. It is an interesting idea' date=' but would you be willing to move Ellsbury for a top flight pitcher? T[b']hat takes a huge chunk from your offensive production[/b]

 

First off, I don't think Ellsbury will be a perennial 30/30 guy. If he hits 15-20 HR next season, I think that will be about right. He's the Joe Mauer of CF.

 

Regardless, though, our offense was absolutely elite. You would be trading away a huge chunk of your offense, but it was the best in the MLB. Our SP posted a 4.49 ERA. 22nd in the MLB, 9th in the AL.

 

Plain and simple, we're rich in offense, poor in SP. It needs to be balanced. Take out Ellsbury, sure it hurts. Replace Wakefields starts with Felix starts? Worth it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And FWIW, Crawford has a career 9.3 UZR/150 in CF. In 2004, when he played his most innings in CF (225), he had a 17.2 UZR/150. That's pretty solid.

[Dojji]

I do not bring Big Papi back. I suspect that this team is heading for a pretty serious downswing as we try to live down some of the recent signing disasters. A move like the Lackey signing is significant enough to hurt us badly, and Crawford's signing is even worse so far. Anyway, point being, we won't be as competitive as we could be for awhile, and that means we need to stop regarding ourselves as peak contenders, probably for the duration of those two contracts.

[Dojji]

I go ahead and pen Reddick in as the everyday right fielder next year, with Kalish on hand as a viable Plan B I don't think the franchise needs to devote resources to ANOTHER expensive, aging, not-very-good free agent RF rather than letting the youngster improve in place.

 

Lavarnway and Saltalamacchia are my tandem at catcher, with Lavarnway getting some at bats at DH.

 

Youkilis is my everyday DH, and I go into the offseason looking for an everyday 3B, which Youk just loudly demonstrated he really is not. (in his proper role, as an everyday 1B who can back up third, Youk is still very valuable, but he is not a 120+ game third baseman)

 

I would sign Coco Crisp as the 4th outfielder. He provides a nice combination of speed off the bench, defense in center, and a certain proficiency against lefthanders. The fact that he's a blast from our WS-winning past probably helps too. He is a man who can make himself useful here if he puts his mind to it.

 

I also hold onto Aviles. He's as good as you're going to get for a utility guy, and he, Lowrie and Youk can probably work out 3B between them if we can find no one better.

 

Position by position, here's how I look at things

 

1B: Gonzo (162)*

2B: Pedroia (140) Lowrie (22)

SS: Iglesias (130) Aviles (20) Lowrie (22)

3B: Aviles (60), Youkilis (60), Lowrie (42)

LF: Crawford (130), Crisp (32)

CF: Ellsbury (120), Crisp (42)

RF: Reddick (130), Ellsbury (32)

C: Saltalamacchia (90), Lavarnway (72)

DH: Lavarnway (81), Youkilis (81)

 

Total games:

 

Goinzo 162

Lavarnway 153 (but a lot of it at DH)

Ellsbury 152

Pedroia 140

Iglesias 130

Crawford 130

Reddick 130

Lowrie 86

Salty 82

Aviles 80

Crisp 74

 

*If we need a backup 1B, Youk is available, and Salty has some nominal experience at the position. I doubt we will though.

[MANNYHOF24]

First off, I don't think Ellsbury will be a perennial 30/30 guy. If he hits 15-20 HR next season, I think that will be about right. He's the Joe Mauer of CF.

 

Regardless, though, our offense was absolutely elite. You would be trading away a huge chunk of your offense, but it was the best in the MLB. Our SP posted a 4.49 ERA. 22nd in the MLB, 9th in the AL.

 

Plain and simple, we're rich in offense, poor in SP. It needs to be balanced. Take out Ellsbury, sure it hurts. Replace Wakefields starts with Felix starts? Worth it.

 

We are not that rich in offense. Our offense was not that much of a force in September, looking awful at times. Ellsbury will not be touched. Why don't you think Ells could hit 25+ homers again next season? He clearly has the power and stroke for it. You don't get a chance to have a player of Ellsburys calibur at age 27 very often. There is little chance he is going anywhere, anytime soon.

[MANNYHOF24]

I go ahead and pen Reddick in as the everyday right fielder next year' date=' [/b']with Kalish on hand as a viable Plan B I don't think the franchise needs to devote resources to ANOTHER expensive, aging, not-very-good free agent RF rather than letting the youngster improve in place.

 

Lavarnway and Saltalamacchia are my tandem at catcher, with Lavarnway getting some at bats at DH.

 

Youkilis is my everyday DH, and I go into the offseason looking for an everyday 3B, which Youk just loudly demonstrated he really is not. (in his proper role, as an everyday 1B who can back up third, Youk is still very valuable, but he is not a 120+ game third baseman)

 

I would sign Coco Crisp as the 4th outfielder. He provides a nice combination of speed off the bench, defense in center, and a certain proficiency against lefthanders. The fact that he's a blast from our WS-winning past probably helps too. He is a man who can make himself useful here if he puts his mind to it.

 

I also hold onto Aviles. He's as good as you're going to get for a utility guy, and he, Lowrie and Youk can probably work out 3B between them if we can find no one better.

 

Position by position, here's how I look at things

 

1B: Gonzo (162)*

2B: Pedroia (140) Lowrie (22)

SS: Iglesias (130) Aviles (20) Lowrie (22)

3B: Aviles (60), Youkilis (60), Lowrie (42)

LF: Crawford (130), Crisp (32)

CF: Ellsbury (120), Crisp (42)

RF: Reddick (130), Ellsbury (32)

C: Saltalamacchia (90), Lavarnway (72)

DH: Lavarnway (81), Youkilis (81)

 

Total games:

 

Goinzo 162

Lavarnway 153 (but a lot of it at DH)

Ellsbury 152

Pedroia 140

Iglesias 130

Crawford 130

Reddick 130

Lowrie 86

Salty 82

Aviles 80

Crisp 74

 

*If we need a backup 1B, Youk is available, and Salty has some nominal experience at the position. I doubt we will though.

 

 

Josh Reddick is not the answer, and he proved it in the last six weeks of the season. He is a below average fielder, has a lot of holes in his swing. RF needs to be addressed with an upgrade this off-season.

[Palodios]

Wow Dojji. Replacing Scutaro, Ortiz, Varitek and Drew with a pile of rookies? Why am I not surprised hahaha.

 

Seriously though, Scutaro hit .299 this year, is available for 6 million(or maybe less) and is the perfect model of a true team player. He's the starting shortstop in 2012 barring any crazy deals, or Bartolo Colon Surgery for Iggy.

[Dojji]

I disagree. Scutaro is a short term solution for a fundamentally long-term problem. Our issue right now is that we're too topheavy. Too many big contracts restricting the freedom of the roster to adjust to problems as they arise. It removes the flexibility our farm system is supposed to be granting us in the first place.

 

If I didn't think that was the problem, I would be all out screaming for the team to go get Jose Reyes.

[Dojji]

Josh Reddick is not the answer' date=' and he proved it in the last six weeks of the season. He is a below average fielder, has a lot of holes in his swing. RF needs to be addressed with an upgrade this off-season.[/quote']

 

There is nothing out there. Carlos Beltran is the closest thing out there, and I'm not sure I'd trust him to stay on the field.

 

Not every emerging problem can be solved with a proper application of money in the next offseason. In fact that's one of the big things Theo needs to learn.

[Palodios]

I disagree. Scutaro is a short term solution for a fundamentally long-term problem. Our issue right now is that we're too topheavy. Too many big contracts restricting the freedom of the roster to adjust to problems as they arise. It removes the flexibility our farm system is supposed to be granting us in the first place.

 

If I didn't think that was the problem, I would be all out screaming for the team to go get Jose Reyes.

 

How does an affordable one year deal for a good player who can play multiple positions hurt this team's flexibility?

[Dojji]

Define "affordable." I'm of the opinion that the team is probably going to be looking to cut payroll next year. They went out on a limb financially and didn't get the playoff revenue to make up for it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

We are not that rich in offense. Our offense was not that much of a force in September' date=' looking awful at times. Ellsbury will not be touched. Why don't you think Ells could hit 25+ homers again next season? He clearly has the power and stroke for it. You don't get a chance to have a player of Ellsburys calibur at age 27 very often. There is little chance he is going anywhere, anytime soon.[/quote']

 

For Felix Hernandez? I trade Ellsbury every day of the week. Not at all a jab at Ells, I love the guy and he's an elite player.

 

And in September, our offense hit .280/.342/.462/.804, and scored 5.41 runs per game. The increase in SP that you would get by replacing Wakefield with Felix, IMO, far outweighs the decrease in production from Ellsbury to Kalish.

 

Or hell, trade Ellsbury for Felix, go sign Crisp to a 2 year/14mm deal, make him your starting CF, keep Crawford in LF, and use Kalish or Reddick in RF.

[Palodios]

Define "affordable." I'm of the opinion that the team is probably going to be looking to cut payroll next year. They went out on a limb financially and didn't get the playoff revenue to make up for it.

 

The player option is 3 million. The team option is 6 million. The buyout is 1.5 million. You're essentially paying 4.5 million to bring him back. And that's if you can't negotiate a better deal with him.

 

Do you know what he's worth on fangraphs? They say he was worth 13 million this year.

 

Dictionary of Palodios:

 

Affordable: (uh-ford-a-bull) adj. 1) A word used to define a gritty 13 million dollar SS who can play any infield position for 4.5 million.

[iMagic10]

I don't know about you guys, but we need serious work with our starting pitchers. Lincecum, anyone?

[redsoxrules]

I disagree. Scutaro is a short term solution for a fundamentally long-term problem. Our issue right now is that we're too topheavy. Too many big contracts restricting the freedom of the roster to adjust to problems as they arise. It removes the flexibility our farm system is supposed to be granting us in the first place.

 

If I didn't think that was the problem, I would be all out screaming for the team to go get Jose Reyes.

 

Scutaro wouldn't take much $ to re-sign .

its a no brainer IMO .

[Meh]

I go ahead and pen Reddick in as the everyday right fielder next year, with Kalish on hand as a viable Plan B I don't think the franchise needs to devote resources to ANOTHER expensive, aging, not-very-good free agent RF rather than letting the youngster improve in place.

 

Lavarnway and Saltalamacchia are my tandem at catcher, with Lavarnway getting some at bats at DH.

 

Youkilis is my everyday DH, and I go into the offseason looking for an everyday 3B, which Youk just loudly demonstrated he really is not. (in his proper role, as an everyday 1B who can back up third, Youk is still very valuable, but he is not a 120+ game third baseman)

 

I would sign Coco Crisp as the 4th outfielder. He provides a nice combination of speed off the bench, defense in center, and a certain proficiency against lefthanders. The fact that he's a blast from our WS-winning past probably helps too. He is a man who can make himself useful here if he puts his mind to it.

 

I also hold onto Aviles. He's as good as you're going to get for a utility guy, and he, Lowrie and Youk can probably work out 3B between them if we can find no one better.

 

Position by position, here's how I look at things

 

1B: Gonzo (162)*

2B: Pedroia (140) Lowrie (22)

SS: Iglesias (130) Aviles (20) Lowrie (22)

3B: Aviles (60), Youkilis (60), Lowrie (42)

LF: Crawford (130), Crisp (32)

CF: Ellsbury (120), Crisp (42)

RF: Reddick (130), Ellsbury (32)

C: Saltalamacchia (90), Lavarnway (72)

DH: Lavarnway (81), Youkilis (81)

 

Total games:

 

Goinzo 162

Lavarnway 153 (but a lot of it at DH)

Ellsbury 152

Pedroia 140

Iglesias 130

Crawford 130

Reddick 130

Lowrie 86

Salty 82

Aviles 80

Crisp 74

 

*If we need a backup 1B, Youk is available, and Salty has some nominal experience at the position. I doubt we will though.

 

Respect. This is not a pipedream, which off season threads are filled with, for all teams. Its a guy or girl, which you are, realizing every team has restrictions. Sox are not going to have a 190 million payroll. They just aren't, its refreshing to see someone with down to earth expectations.

[a700hitter]

I do not bring Big Papi back. I suspect that this team is heading for a pretty serious downswing as we try to live down some of the recent signing disasters. A move like the Lackey signing is significant enough to hurt us badly' date=' and Crawford's signing is even worse so far. Anyway, point being, we won't be as competitive as we could be for awhile, and that means we need to stop regarding ourselves as peak contenders, probably for the duration of those two contracts.[/quote']I disagree that there will be a serious downsizing. They have missed the playoffs two years in a row, and they haven't won a post season game since 2008. There will be major changes, but it will not be a downsizing. After a season like this that was an epic disaster, they need to come back strong. Missing the playoffs for a 3 rd year in a row would run the risk of damaging the franchise and affecting revenue streams.

[Palodios]

Respect. This is not a pipedream' date=' which off season threads are filled with, for all teams. Its a guy or girl, which you are, realizing every team has restrictions. Sox are not going to have a 190 million payroll. They just aren't, its refreshing to see someone with down to earth expectations.[/quote']

 

They're also not going to cut payroll significantly either. The Red Sox can resign Scutaro, Ortiz, use the money gained from losing Papelbon to rebuild the bullpen, trade for a respectable starter, and still be able to stay around the luxury cap.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Just heard an idea on WEEI. How about a Trash for Trash trade - Lackey to the Mets for Jason Bay?

 

Make Bay the DH maybe?

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, really? Iglesias to start 130 games and apparently the shortstop will be starting 172 games in 2012? Dude, Iglesias cannot hit AA pitching, let alone the bigs. If you wanna go for an all defense SS in the AL East, then please, do it. Remember, I am not a Red Sox fan. You wanna go to Reddick out of the gate with no real competition? Go for it, sounds great. You want Aviles and Youk to split time at 3b? Sounds like another stellar idea. You are taking an offense capable of 900 runs and dropping it down to about 780. I say go for it!

[jacksonianmarch]

Just heard an idea on WEEI. How about a Trash for Trash trade - Lackey to the Mets for Jason Bay?

 

Make Bay the DH maybe?

 

The sox would need to eat a yr of Lackey's salary

[TedWilliams101]

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Team Player

Team Player

Ortiz (only a 1 or 2 year deal at the right price)

Team Player

Team Player

Scutaro

catcher

 

 

Yeah. Everyone not named should be on the trading block (yes, that includes Agon). Crawford, Agon, Youk, and Lackey all need to be examined and shipped out if they aren't completely dedicated. I don't care if that means some downgrading. I'd rather have a weaker, blue-collar lineup than a bunch of prima donas who don't take responsibility or put in the work. I'm hoping I'm wrong on all those guys, I really am. But if they are problems, eradicate them.