2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

VMArt and Beltre are going to the playoffs and the So are going home. Who would have figured?

[iMagic10]

Can we actually get some star pitchers? Becket is a piece of dung.

[iortiz]

VMArt and Beltre are going to the playoffs and the So are going home. Who would have figured?

 

Somehow when I listen the name VMart... I miss Masterson

[a700hitter]

When the Mets went through their collapse, I remember a couple of old time fans saying that Randolph needed to turn over a table in the clubhouse and kick some ass to get some attention. He didn't and the spiral never ended. I saw the same type of despair and desperation setting in on this team when they realized that they didn't have the horses to take them down the stretch. They were hoping to just tick off dates on the calendar before the entire lead was lost, but when they started to realize that the lead was shrinking faster than the dates were coming off the calendar, they shrank into their shells. Someone needed to shake things up-- the manager, a player. I was hoping Pedroia would shake things up, but after games he was giving the same vanilla interviews as everyone else. I could see it coming, because I had seen it before. It's a spiral of collective despair that fed on itself, game after game. My Met fan friends told me to stop watching before the weekend series against the Yankees. They could see it unfolding, and they knew it would make me miserable. As bad as this has been, it pales in comparison to losing 2 parents in 3 1/2 weeks. Perspective. Talk to you all soon. Lot's of good baseball discussions ahead, but I need to take a break.

[a700hitter]

VMArt and Beltre are going to the playoffs and the So are going home. Who would have figured?

Damon also in the Post Season.

[SCM33]

 

1. Drop Wake (YES)

2. Accept that they are going to have to suck up some of the cost for Dice-K and Lackey and be aggressive. (THANK YOU!!! ABSOLUTELY)

3. Look at a trade and don't take players off the list of availability. Ellsbury for a true ace? Maybe. Buchholz +? Maybe. (NO, Ellsbury is a stud)

4. Go after a guy like CJ Wilson? Certainly explore it... but don't drop ANOTHER 20m contract. They just can't do it right now. Not for Wilson. (MAYBE)

5. Go after ANOTHER Japanese player in Yu Darvish? I would consider it strongly. Again, LOTS of non-payroll tax money to get an established pitcher. They can't let thei rfrustration with Matsuzaka deter them from looking at other potentially good players. (ABSOLUTELY NO TO ANOTHER JAPANESE PITCHER, HASNT THE MLB LEARNED THAT THESE GUYS ARE NOT AS ADVERTISED??)

6. Aceves/Doubront/another internal option? Nah. Go with those guys as depth. (ACEVES WOULDNT BE A BAD #4 OPTION)

 

My responses in () and bold.

[example1]

My responses in () and bold.

 

Appreciate the responses. I'm still open to the option of a japanese pitcher. Darvish has a better build than Matsuzaka and I'm not ready to write off an entire population of baseball die-hards just because of a particular failed venture.

 

Additionally, the nuances of the posting system make it a potentially adventageous place for a high payroll team like the Sox to use their money.

 

I'm not necessarily advocating for aggression toward Darvish, but I'm not against it yet either. Want to check out his stuff a bit more.

[example1]

A very dejected Theo:

What role did injuries play?

 

"...We don't have any excuses. Things went wrong from an injury standpoint, luck or fate, or whatever you have it, but the overriding factor was just poor play, did it to ourselves, so we have no excuses. We have time to dissect it going forward, right now is just massive disappointment obviously."

 

"we're all emotional, shocked. There will be a day for post-mortem"

 

"After every year you have to look at where you are as an organization, not just the current season, but trends and where you'er going in the future. It's our responsibility to do that every year and, when you have a month like we just had, it will only intensify that effort."

 

"We can't deny that this month happened. You know, just because it was preceeded by 4 months of being the best team in baseball doesn't mean that September didn't happen, so we'll have to take a close look at everything that's not right, we have to fix, and that includes the whole organization, so, I guess if there's any silver lining from this it's that you can't look the other way. If there's anything that's not exactly the way you want it, you have to address it now. That process is going to be difficult but its... something that we have to do."

 

"This is one for the ages. What's going on with those two games. How poorly we playe din September; can't sugar coat this. This is awful. And we did it to ourselves, put ourselves in the position for crazy night like this to end our season, shouldn't have been this way. Went 7-20 in September.. we go 9-18 we're where we want to be. 9-18 is, what, winnning a third of your games? The worst teams in baseball win a third of their games so, there's no excuse, did this to ourselves."

 

I suspect this will motivate a pretty substantial overhaul of the team and a strong push to not repeat this.

[iortiz]

A very dejected Theo:

What role did injuries play?

 

"...We don't have any excuses. Things went wrong from an injury standpoint, luck or fate, or whatever you have it, but the overriding factor was just poor play, did it to ourselves, so we have no excuses. We have time to dissect it going forward, right now is just massive disappointment obviously."

 

"we're all emotional, shocked. There will be a day for post-mortem"

 

"After every year you have to look at where you are as an organization, not just the current season, but trends and where you'er going in the future. It's our responsibility to do that every year and, when you have a month like we just had, it will only intensify that effort."

 

"We can't deny that this month happened. You know, just because it was preceeded by 4 months of being the best team in baseball doesn't mean that September didn't happen, so we'll have to take a close look at everything that's not right, we have to fix, and that includes the whole organization, so, I guess if there's any silver lining from this it's that you can't look the other way. If there's anything that's not exactly the way you want it, you have to address it now. That process is going to be difficult but its... something that we have to do."

 

"This is one for the ages. What's going on with those two games. How poorly we playe din September; can't sugar coat this. This is awful. And we did it to ourselves, put ourselves in the position for crazy night like this to end our season, shouldn't have been this way. Went 7-20 in September.. we go 9-18 we're where we want to be. 9-18 is, what, winnning a third of your games? The worst teams in baseball win a third of their games so, there's no excuse, did this to ourselves."

 

I suspect this will motivate a pretty substantial overhaul of the team and a strong push to not repeat this.

 

Exactly.

 

Although I've been pointing at Theo's head, I like how he responds. He takes accountability. He says, "no excuses". This is a good start. Realize and recognize that tons of things haven't worked. When he says "we'll have to take a close look at everything that's not right, we have to fix, and that includes the whole organization" he puts his head in the table as well. We'll see how it ends.

[example1]

Exactly.

 

Although I've been pointing at Theo's head, I like how he responds. He takes accountability. He says, "no excuses". This is a good start. Realize and recognize that tons of things haven't worked. When he says "we'll have to take a close look at everything that's not right, we have to fix, and that includes the whole organization" he puts his head in the table as well. We'll see how it ends.

 

I think generally his responses are generally very measured. That's something I appreciate about him most. Listening to his interview, though, I didn't get the sense that he holds himself too accountable (he's not saying "it starts with my head on the chopping block"). When he says things like (paraphrasing) "if we had gone 9-18 in September we would be where we wanted to be" (the playoffs) I think he's making it clear that it is on the players and, maybe, the coaches. In other words, if the FO gets you to a place where playing 9-18 (.333) ball the rest of the way gets you in the playoffs, what more can we do?

 

I would be interested to know which teams DID NOT go at least 9-18 in September. I bet it was very few. It doesn't take a genius GM or 160m payroll to win 1/3 of your games when it matters most. It takes the players doing what they are supposed to do. Period.

 

That's basically my take on it too. Yes, they could have had more depth. Yes, they could have made a bigger splash at the deadline. But overall the players could have done more. Lester, Beckett, Bard, Crawford, Wakefield, Lackey, the list goes on and on and on and on. A few better performances here and there and the team is 9-18 and in the playoffs. A few 'average' performances and the team is competing for the division and home field advantage.

[iortiz]

I think generally his responses are generally very measured. That's something I appreciate about him most. Listening to his interview' date=' though, I didn't get the sense that he holds himself [i']too[/i] accountable (he's not saying "it starts with my head on the chopping block"). When he says things like (paraphrasing) "if we had gone 9-18 in September we would be where we wanted to be" (the playoffs) I think he's making it clear that it is on the players and, maybe, the coaches. In other words, if the FO gets you to a place where playing 9-18 (.333) ball the rest of the way gets you in the playoffs, what more can we do?

 

I would be interested to know which teams DID NOT go at least 9-18 in September. I bet it was very few. It doesn't take a genius GM or 160m payroll to win 1/3 of your games when it matters most. It takes the players doing what they are supposed to do. Period.

 

That's basically my take on it too. Yes, they could have had more depth. Yes, they could have made a bigger splash at the deadline. But overall the players could have done more. Lester, Beckett, Bard, Crawford, Wakefield, Lackey, the list goes on and on and on and on. A few better performances here and there and the team is 9-18 and in the playoffs. A few 'average' performances and the team is competing for the division and home field advantage.

"After every year you have to look at where you are as an organization, not just the current season, but trends and where you'er going in the future. It's our responsibility to do that every year"

 

In other words, If it doesn't work, it is his responsibility. Plus, the trend as a GM doesn't help him.

[Ace]

Sox should sign Yu Darvish if they're unable to get CJ Wilson. He's superior to Dice-K in every way.

[TedWilliams101]

Get rid of Crawford, DiceK, and Lackey. I don't care what it takes, I just don't want those guys on this team.

As crazy as it sounds, I'm also worried about Adrian. I REALLY didn't like what he had to say after the game. He doesn't sound like a leader, like someone who takes responsibility, and he completely disappeared when this team needed him late in the season.

 

Keep Paps if it's reasonable. He shouldn't get Rivera money, he isn't that good/valuable.

Get another BP pitcher to compete for the 8th inning and find some depth

Go after an an elite pitcher. Get it done, what ever it takes. The only thing I don't want to see is us overpay contract wise.

Try to sign Ortiz to a 1 or 2 year deal at a reasonable amount. If he wants more money/years, let him walk

Give Youk an ultimatum. Either he gets his ass in shape or he finds himself another team.

Let JD Drew walk

Sign Ellsbury to long term deal. I love the kid, he's got a bright future.

Let Wake and Vtek walk

Sign more SP depth. I'm not sure who will be available, but I'm thinking (aside from going after a #1) getting at least more solid starters or at least a BP pitcher who can start occasionally if needed.

Salty/Lavarnway is a decent catching combo, but upgrading the spot should be on the to do list

Not sure about SS right now. I'm done with Lowrie and who knows about Iglesias.

3B - Sticking with Youk? Yes if we keep Ortiz. If we let Ortiz walk, move Youk to DH and find another 3B. It would have been nice right now if we had resigned Beltre...

 

IMPORTANT:

Fix this coaching staff. The little, everyday things MUST be emphasized. They need to get better at defense and fundamentals and that comes down to good coaching and discipline. Unfortunately this is also something that us fans really don't get to see much of so I really don't have much to offer other than that

That's about all I can wrap my head around right now. I need some sleep...

[iMagic10]

Lincecum or bust.

[Taz]

One word: Pitching.

 

This needs sorted big time. Thanks for all the memories to some of the old guard; guys like Varitek & Wakefield have been absolutely stellar servants to the club for a very long time, but time it is for them to move on whilst they still are remembered for the fine work they have done over many years, and not let that be spoilt by trying to hold on for too long. I, for one, hold both of these men in the highest regard. Personally am really going to miss watching Wakefield in action. By far the finest exponant of what seems to be a dying art for virtually his entire career. Much respect.

[Emmz]

Those two pitching slots where Lackey and Dice-K are need to be filled. Like I said, they can not be relied upon for anything after this year, and if we can get rid of them and upgrade, let's do that.

 

I would give Crawford another chance, but he's playing like s*** this year, it's inexplicable how you could be so good for years, then go s*** the bed completely. Did he even have a .600 OPS for the season?

 

I could just see Crawford ending up returning to form and just s***ing on us for trading him away or something. He's in the typical prime years of a players career, I could see a huge turnaround next year. If he does, that's excellent.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Wow, I just hope the team makes the needed improvement over the off season. I don't know who will be available on the market, but definite changes need to be made.

 

(Yes, this is being posted because I am still in shock that a team that seemed the best in baseball couldn't win back to back games in an entire month.)

 

I think Crawford bounces back next year. Just my opinion.

 

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Get rid of Crawford

 

This is so stupid.

[redsoxrules]

This is so stupid.

 

you wont be saying that in 2-3 years from now

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Why because you think he'll continue to perform this bad? I swear Bostin fans are so spoiled. The ones calling for him to get out of Boston are retarded(sorry). It's one year not 7 he played. Remember when everyone was calling for Papelbon and Ortiz to leave the team? Where are those people now? Hell even some people want to get rid of Bard after this month and I'm not talking about the ones who say he won't be closer. I'd love to hear what people say if Crawford gets on a roll the next few years. He's not this bad. He may not perform to TB Ray levels but he won't perform like this on a yearly basis. Just my 2 cents.

[SoxFanForsyth]

you wont be saying that in 2-3 years from now

 

Yeah. You're right. A guy who put up a 13.5 WAR in the two seasons before moving to Boston has suddenly morphed into a 0.7 WAR player. That's reasonable.

 

But no, we're the stupid ones for thinking that he'll return to form. You're the smart one for thinking he's a .250/.290/.400 hitter from here on out.

 

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

^logic 101.

 

Thank you Forsyth.

[redsoxrules]

Why because you think he'll continue to perform this bad? I swear Bostin fans are so spoiled. The ones calling for him to get out of Boston are retarded(sorry). It's one year not 7 he played. Remember when everyone was calling for Papelbon and Ortiz to leave the team? Where are those people now? Hell even some people want to get rid of Bard after this month and I'm not talking about the ones who say he won't be closer. I'd love to hear what people say if Crawford gets on a roll the next few years. He's not this bad. He may not perform to TB Ray levels but he won't perform like this on a yearly basis. Just my 2 cents.

 

that's why he got the big contract and that's how he should perform

[redsoxrules]

Yeah. You're right. A guy who put up a 13.5 WAR in the two seasons before moving to Boston has suddenly morphed into a 0.7 WAR player. That's reasonable.

 

But no, we're the stupid ones for thinking that he'll return to form. You're the smart one for thinking he's a .250/.290/.400 hitter from here on out.

 

 

Nope , I said that he'll never put up the numbers he put in his final season in Tampa .

I never said he'll be a .7 War troughout the contract.

[iMagic10]

Trade Crawford for Braun.

 

Trade Beckett for Lincecum.

 

I think that's a good start.

[Station 13]

Trade Crawford for Braun.

 

Trade Beckett for Lincecum.

 

I think that's a good start.

 

lol this isn't fantasy baseball via playstation cheat codes.

[TedWilliams101]

My worries are that Crawford doesn't have the personality to be successful in Boston. We've all seen it before. I don't think he has it in him. To make matters worse, I think he could very well fall apart in a couple seasons if his legs go. He simply doesn't have the bat or fundamentals to overcome slowing down with age.

 

As I said before, I hope I'm wrong on him and he can turn it around and rise above the pressure, but I'm just not optimistic. So I guess I shouldn't say 100%, absolutely get rid of Crawford. If they think his personality is a problem though, then I would look to trade him. That makes sense to me.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

The only places I have concern are:

RF - Is Kalish/Reddick ready to take this for the whole year? Reddick kind of fell off the map after scouting found his weakness.

SS - Not sure which direction to go with here. Is Iglesias ready to take over full time, or do we go with a FA?

3B - Can Youk last a whole season on this corner? I think Youk adds a lot to the team, but not if he spends so much time on the DL.

SP - I don't think we will be able to shed Lackey...He will have to be the #5 SP. Beckett, Lester, and Buch should be set. Another good starter needs to be found, preferably an ace. Conditioning has to be better. Only lasting 5 innings is destroying what little there is in relief. Wake needs to be gone, but if he comes back in the BP, I won't cry. Just stop using him as a starter.

RP - Find some reliable arms. This is really a crap shoot, because it's tough to gauge who is going to shine and who is not.

C - I am not sure which way to go with this. Maybe a FA?

 

I am fine with Papi coming back. I hate to see Drew go, but I think it's time, (I know he is not well loved here, but I still remember the Grand Slam against the Guardians.) I am certain that Crawford bounces back, and I expect Gonzalez to again be at the top of the batting statistics.

 

(I am sure someone will come in with statistics proving me wrong. I only base this on watching about 85-90% of the games this year on TV. I am not a Bostonian, but I have lived and died with the team since 1974. These are just my opinions, and thoughts.)

:dunno:

[yeszir]

lol this isn't fantasy baseball via playstation cheat codes.

 

Seriously

 

The only trades people propose around here are completely lopsided nonstarters

[SoxFanForsyth]

lol this isn't fantasy baseball via playstation cheat codes.

 

Wait. We still have JD Drew, right? Let's extend him, and then trade him + Lackey for Josh Johnson, right? Lackey could be good in Florida, and JD Drew would be closer to Georgia where he lives.