Bedard's future

[rlchange]

Recently, we got Bedard from the Mariners in need of some starting pitchers. Bedard has been doing "decent" since he came over. I believe we need to give him time to fit in. If we have him now, I say give him good use and wait a few weeks.

 

What are your thoughts on Bedards future? will he improve? I think so.

[Palodios]

He's been pretty consistent. 3.50 ERA for 15 starts a year. On the DL for the other 15.

 

If he helps this team through the end of the season and stays healthy, they resign him on the cheap. If not, he's going back to the bargain bin for the next team to give him a shot.

[rlchange]

He's been pretty consistent. 3.50 ERA for 15 starts a year. On the DL for the other 15.

 

If he helps this team through the end of the season and stays healthy, they resign him on the cheap. If not, he's going back to the bargain bin for the next team to give him a shot.

 

I agree 100%:thumbsup:

[Youk Of The Nation]

If he doesn't go Gagne on the Sox, I would like to see him come back next season. If Buchholz is healthy again in 2012, Beckett-Lester-Lackey-Buchholz-Bedard is a very formidable lineup of generic-looking farmboys.

[yeszir]

A healthy Bedard has tremendous potential.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Exactly. The Sox have to face facts: Wakefield has given his heart and soul to the team, and I love the guy, but there's going to come a day, and soon, where he isn't going to be viable as a major league pitcher. Some people will say that it has already come, and that's arguable, but at the moment he can still pitch and keep the Sox in games.

 

However, he can't play forever, and when he's gone the Sox will have lost a durable fifth or spot starter and will need to have a more concrete option to fill the slot. They can't win the division every year with AAA guys being called up to fill an empty spot three times a month.

[Palodios]

Exactly. The Sox have to face facts: Wakefield has given his heart and soul to the team, and I love the guy, but there's going to come a day, and soon, where he isn't going to be viable as a major league pitcher. Some people will say that it has already come, and that's arguable, but at the moment he can still pitch and keep the Sox in games.

 

However, he can't play forever, and when he's gone the Sox will have lost a durable fifth or spot starter and will need to have a more concrete option to fill the slot. They can't win the division every year with AAA guys being called up to fill an empty spot three times a month.

 

Everyone thought Wakefield was done at the beginning of the year. He's too old, they said. Hell, I said it too, at the time. But now-- I've been asking this question a lot, simply because people like to ignore it... but, how has Wakefield changed in the last twenty years?

 

His stuff is the same, his ERA is still fluctuating between 4 and 5 most of the time, and its not like he's really lost any of his skill set. He can just as easily go 7-8 innings as 4-5, and that's how he's always been. His knuckleball is still a knuckleball.

 

The question is, how long can he stay healthy, and how long can he stay mobile? Considering how well he's pitched this year (as a #6 starter mind you, not a #2 or 3) I think he has one more year in him, and at that price, why not?

[Dojji]

Offer him arb. If he accepts, see what happens if you try to offer him a longer term deal. If he refuses, take the picks and move on because he doesn't want to be here.

 

We don't seem to have that many problems with shoulders in the rotation, we might be able to salvage him, and if we could, what a rotation we could have! If he thinks we'd be a good place to be for the sake of his own health, it'll happen. OF course that means we have a doctor to fire, but I don't love that doctor anyway.

 

If Bedard is hurt, there's Wakefield, and if Wakefield is hurt too, there's the minors (Doubront/Weiland). We're well situated to cover for injured starters as long as we don't lose too many at once (and even then we remained in first place throughout a period of time when Lester and Buchholz were both out -- that's not too shabby)

[a700hitter]

Everyone thought Wakefield was done at the beginning of the year. He's too old, they said. Hell, I said it too, at the time. But now-- I've been asking this question a lot, simply because people like to ignore it... but, how has Wakefield changed in the last twenty years?

 

His stuff is the same, his ERA is still fluctuating between 4 and 5 most of the time, and its not like he's really lost any of his skill set. He can just as easily go 7-8 innings as 4-5, and that's how he's always been. His knuckleball is still a knuckleball.

 

The question is, how long can he stay healthy, and how long can he stay mobile? Considering how well he's pitched this year (as a #6 starter mind you, not a #2 or 3) I think he has one more year in him, and at that price, why not?

He used to be an ecellent fielder. As evidenced by a recent face plant, he can no longer field his position. Plus, his best quality was that he was durable. That is no longer the case. He's not a viable starting option going forward.

[Palodios]

He used to be an ecellent fielder. As evidenced by a recent face plant' date=' he can no longer field his position. Plus, his best quality was that he was durable. That is no longer the case. He's not a viable starting option going forward.[/quote']

 

His fielding is the difference between his 4ish ERA through his career to his 5ish ERA now. And how can you say he's not durable, when he has had zero injuries this year, and the guy this thread is about-- Bedard-- cannot hold a candle to the health of Wakefield?

[SoxSport]

Wake will be gone next year, so that opens opportunities for another lefthander in the rotation.

 

Theo clearly has been searching for LHPing this year, so Bedard has the opportunity if he can pitch like he did earlier in Seattle. So far he's looked pretty good coming back off a leg injury. He's being babied along, as the Red Sox do with their starters. He'll be 2+ seasons off his shoulder problems next year, and that's usually when pitchers come back fully--if they are going to. He'll get a good shot at the 3rd rotation spot with Lackey, and if Buchholz is unavailable, could be a key factor in the playoffs--where three good starters are critical, especially against the Phillies.

[a700hitter]

Offer him arb. If he accepts, see what happens if you try to offer him a longer term deal. If he refuses, take the picks and move on because he doesn't want to be here.

 

We don't seem to have that many problems with shoulders in the rotation, we might be able to salvage him, and if we could, what a rotation we could have! If he thinks we'd be a good place to be for the sake of his own health, it'll happen. OF course that means we have a doctor to fire, but I don't love that doctor anyway.

 

If Bedard is hurt, there's Wakefield, and if Wakefield is hurt too, there's the minors (Doubront/Weiland). We're well situated to cover for injured starters as long as we don't lose too many at once (and even then we remained in first place throughout a period of time when Lester and Buchholz were both out -- that's not too shabby)

Why would a pitcher think that he would be healthier with the Red Sox? Every year we have one or more starters miss substantial portions of the season. This year it has been Dice K and Buchholz. In ny memory, the last time that all of our starters stayed healthy was 2004.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think Bedard projects as a Type A or B since that ranking is based on the last 2 yrs and he did nothing last yr. Similar to Colon, IIRC

[Palodios]

Yeah, I doubt Bedard will be even close, because most of the qualifying stats for starting pitchers are counting stats from the last three years, of which he's missed almost two years.

 

SP: Total games (total starts + 0.5 * total relief appearances), IP, Wins, W-L Percentage, ERA, Strikeouts

[a700hitter]

His fielding is the difference between his 4ish ERA through his career to his 5ish ERA now. And how can you say he's not durable' date=' when he has had zero injuries this year, and the guy this thread is about-- Bedard-- cannot hold a candle to the health of Wakefield?[/quote']The last time he made 30 starts in a season was 2008. I don't think he can take the ball every 5th day for an entire season anymore.

[Palodios]

The last time he made 30 starts in a season was 2008. I don't think he can take the ball every 5th day for an entire season anymore.

 

Right, but we're asking him to be a 6th starter, not the 5th. He was healthy in 2010, but pitched from the bullpen. And he was all-star in 2009, the last year he actually had an injury. He also pitched 140+ innings last year, which is still pretty solid for a 43 year old.

[Dojji]

The last time he made 30 starts in a season was 2008. I don't think he can take the ball every 5th day for an entire season anymore.

 

No, but I don't think we're asking him to anymore. He just needs to stand in when someone can't.

[stonedtone]

Recently, we got Bedard from the Mariners in need of some starting pitchers. Bedard has been doing "decent" since he came over. I believe we need to give him time to fit in. If we have him now, I say give him good use and wait a few weeks.

 

What are your thoughts on Bedards future? will he improve? I think so.

He got so squeezed on calls in his last outing. He would have turned in a much better performance if he got those missed calls

[Dojji]

Let's not get Drew Bledsoe's disease with this guy. The "if only" game is for losers. Besides, he had a good outing even with those missed calls.

 

He's a competent middle of the rotation guy who needs to pitch deeper into games to really be effective. We didn't give up anything that difficult to replace to get him, so we don't expect ace type performances out of him.

[SoxSport]

He'll be the #3 starter if he shows something. Without Buchholz, the competition isn't great unless Lackey reverts to Angels form again.

[SCM33]

He'll be the #3 starter if he shows something. Without Buchholz' date=' the competition isn't great unless Lackey reverts to Angels form again.[/quote']

 

Can you really consider a guy a #3 when he only pitches 5 or AT MOST 6 innings a game? Hes only come close to 200 IP and averages 5.7 innings per start in his career.

 

He is a back end of the rotation guy if you ask me. Thats not a testament to his abilities, I just think 1-3 are guys are a little more durable. Hurts me to say it, but I think Lackey is #3 at this point.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Can you really consider a guy a #3 when he only pitches 5 or AT MOST 6 innings a game? Hes only come close to 200 IP and averages 5.7 innings per start in his career.

 

He is a back end of the rotation guy if you ask me. Thats not a testament to his abilities, I just think 1-3 are guys are a little more durable. Hurts me to say it, but I think Lackey is #3 at this point.

 

Actually, if you look at his game logs, he's more than a 5 IP pitcher. We can work with 6 IP but even this year he's shown the ability to get deeper in games than people realize. Keep in mind, he's been on a pitch count since getting to Boston. In May and June he had a pretty nice run IP wise: 7 vs. TEX, 5 vs. CHW, 8 vs. SDP, 6 vs. MIN, 6.1 vs. BAL, 7 vs. TB, 5 vs. DET, 7 vs. LAAAAA, 6 vs. WSN, 7 vs. ATL

 

With the control he exhibited in his first couple starts I think things are looking pretty good. Getting through 5 innings with 70 pitches the first time out and managing 5 IP again with 90 pitches in spite of a shoebox sized strike zone was nice to see. I think health is the only concern with this guy. He could be a Lester clone out there for us the rest of the way if we can keep him on the field.

 

Also, shoulder injuries aren't the death sentence they used to be. I'm sure people in Stl were skeptical in '04 that Chris Carpenter could handle a big work load when they brought him in after not pitching at all the season prior and only logging ~70 innings the last time he was on the field in '02. He pitched 241 innings the next year in 2005. He lost a year and change to the same injury that took a full season from Bedard. Pitchers can come back from labrum injuries nowadays. We're certainly asking Bedard to be more than just our sixth starter down the stretch and with a significantly better career ERA+ mark than Beckett and a similar mark to guys like Sabathia and Verlander, if he's healthy, he can certainly be a huge pick up. I'm psyched.

 

Prior to coming to Boston he talked about how Boston was one of his favorite cities to pitch in. If things go well, I wouldn't be shocked at a re-sign.

[SCM33]

Actually' date=' if you look at his game logs, he's more than a 5 IP pitcher. We can work with 6 IP but even this year he's shown the ability to get deeper in games than people realize. Keep in mind, he's been on a pitch count since getting to Boston. In May and June he had a pretty nice run IP wise: 7 vs. TEX, 5 vs. CHW, 8 vs. SDP, 6 vs. MIN, 6.1 vs. BAL, 7 vs. TB, 5 vs. DET, 7 vs. LAAAAA, 6 vs. WSN, 7 vs. ATL[/quote']

 

What I posted was not my opinion, it was fact.

 

He has averaged 5.7 innings per start in his career, and has NEVER thrown 200 innings in a season, pitch count or no pitch count.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Well, career averages like that can be somewhat misleading though. First off, lets call 5.7 about 5 2/3, thats fair, no? Getting into the sixth during your average start ain't half bad. Off hand, you got Lester or Becketts career averages? What about CC?

 

Anybody, no matter how skilled, gets rocked and pulled in the 2nd or third 2 or 3 times a year. That can bring that average down over the course of a season or even a career. No doubt, he needs to jump that 200 inning mark before anybody would feel comfortable relying on him to hold down a rotation spot for 162, but the same could have been said of Beckett when he got here and I think most of his problems logging innings has been injury related. He doesn't have command issues or anything, he's looked fairly polished in his two starts for the Sox. If healthy, the guy will throw 100 pitches. With the command he's reputed to have and that he's displayed here so far, getting into the 7th won't be a problem.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

also, if you average that run from may and june out it probably comes out to about 5 2/3 IP per. I'll take that from my third starter all day.

[SCM33]

Well, career averages like that can be somewhat misleading though. First off, lets call 5.7 about 5 2/3, thats fair, no? Getting into the sixth during your average start ain't half bad. Off hand, you got Lester or Becketts career averages? What about CC?

 

Anybody, no matter how skilled, gets rocked and pulled in the 2nd or third 2 or 3 times a year. That can bring that average down over the course of a season or even a career. No doubt, he needs to jump that 200 inning mark before anybody would feel comfortable relying on him to hold down a rotation spot for 162, but the same could have been said of Beckett when he got here and I think most of his problems logging innings has been injury related. He doesn't have command issues or anything, he's looked fairly polished in his two starts for the Sox. If healthy, the guy will throw 100 pitches. With the command he's reputed to have and that he's displayed here so far, getting into the 7th won't be a problem.

 

Beckett averages 6.2 IP per start. Lester also averages 6.2 IP per start.........that is a HUGE difference.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Certainly is. I wouldn't go so far as to label Bedard a 5 inning pitcher. I wouldn't call Lester or Beckett a 6 inning pitcher. Both of those guys have been fortunate to have had much better health over the course of their career than Bedard. I think you're selling him a bit short.