Let the Jose Reyes Sweepstakes Begin

[Palodios]

I think right now they're probably interested in who will pick up the most money rather than the prospects they get in return. Reyes' date=' sure I can see them wanting a bit more in return, but for Beltran, a guy who will give them 1. No compensation picks because he can't be offered arbitration, and he's not even a Type A or B FA anyway, and 2. they have no intent of resigning, I think it's all about the $$$, and then the prospects.[/quote']

 

Sure, but we're talking about Reyes, not Beltran. Beltran is there for the taking on whoever wants to pay the $10 million. Reyes will cost $3 million... but is probably worth $15 million for half a season.

 

I can see the Red Sox making a splash at the trade deadline, but if they go for Beltran, it will be last minute, and they'll grab him only once they make sure that money isn't better used elsewhere. There have been grumblings about money budgeted to the trade deadline, and taking on Beltran's salary will probably cost all of it. He might also be an ideal waiver pick up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sure, but we're talking about Reyes, not Beltran. Beltran is there for the taking on whoever wants to pay the $10 million. Reyes will cost $3 million... but is probably worth $15 million for half a season.

 

I can see the Red Sox making a splash at the trade deadline, but if they go for Beltran, it will be last minute, and they'll grab him only once they make sure that money isn't better used elsewhere. There have been grumblings about money budgeted to the trade deadline, and taking on Beltran's salary will probably cost all of it. He might also be an ideal waiver pick up.

 

If the Sox picked up Beltran at game 70, he would be owed $10.5mm. If he gets traded at the ASB, he would be owed $8.2mm.

 

I'm saying if the Sox really want these guys, they can act quickly, take on more salary, and cut a deal.

[Will617]

1. Actually the mere fact that they agreed to that clause is a huge deal, and shows just how desperate they were for money. Don't you think they could have gotten a loan somewhere else that didn't include a stipulation in which almost 2/3 of the entire team would be transferred if they weren't able to pick up $200mm over the next 3 years?

 

How the hell can you construe any sort of confidence in a team when they're literally giving away a 33% share because they can't make payroll and are having to borrow $200mm. It blows my mind that you think this team has confidence that they can repay this amount. They're GIVING away a 1/3 ownership of their team. Even if he gets repaid. He keeps the ownership.

 

2. This is a good point, but the Red Sox are one of the few teams who can go out and make a deal quickly and pick up a majority of these salaries. Beltran + Reyes makes a combined $29.5mm this year. If the Sox picked these guys up after 70 games and ate 75% of their salaries, they would be giving up those 4 prospects + $12.56mm. The quicker you act, the cheaper (in prospects) the trade. And there are very few other teams who can afford to pick up 75% of the salaries.

 

3. $3mm? You do realize that, as of game 70, these two players are owed $16.75mm, right? That's a pretty significant amount of money.

 

4. Wright has 2 years left on his contract. Reyes and Beltran are gone after this year. By dumping these two players, they don't affect years 2012 on.

 

First, I was only referring to deals involving Reyes only. It's pretty obvious that no one needs to make much of an effort to acquire Beltran. But it's not like we're going to demand value or leverage from the Mets for the privilege to have Beltran off their books.

 

1/4. You can't have your cake and eat it - if the Mets were so desperate to dump salary this year, AND they were in trouble for future years (as you would suggest by arguing that the deal proves they're in deep s***), there's no reason to leave Wright untouchable. But if the Mets aren't in so much trouble for future years, I'm sure they can afford the $3 million Reyes is due for the rest of the season.

Also, the stake in the team was sold without anything from SNY, which is a major part of the Mets revenues (maybe even the most lucrative parts). Which explains why they had to cut a pretty terrible deal. But that doesn't mean they sell off any player for mediocrity.

2. Acting quickly doesn't matter, at all. If the Red Sox make a move, other teams will also make a move. If the deal gets done 20 games faster, the Mets save about 15% of Reyes' salary.

3. Like I said above, I don't think Beltran matters at all in terms of this trade. I'd think of it as two deals, basically - one deal for Beltran, and one deal for Reyes. Any team can acquire Beltran for very little, and I'm sure that there will be some suitors. But giving up Reyes could possibly cost the Mets more in monetary terms than keeping him.

[Palodios]

I'm saying if the Sox really want these guys' date=' they can act quickly, take on more salary, and cut a deal.[/quote']

 

But that's my point. They're running through teams like a juggernaut right now, and they still have a 15 game feast of NL teams coming up. Why use up all of your resources now--when they don't need it-- when you could wait a month, and see if any new, more significant need rises? Plus, significant injuries could happen to other teams, and the gaps between good teams and bad teams will widen, and more players will be available.

[SoxFanForsyth]

First, I was only referring to deals involving Reyes only. It's pretty obvious that no one needs to make much of an effort to acquire Beltran. But it's not like we're going to demand value or leverage from the Mets for the privilege to have Beltran off their books.

 

1/4. You can't have your cake and eat it - if the Mets were so desperate to dump salary this year, AND they were in trouble for future years (as you would suggest by arguing that the deal proves they're in deep s***), there's no reason to leave Wright untouchable. But if the Mets aren't in so much trouble for future years, I'm sure they can afford the $3 million Reyes is due for the rest of the season.

Also, the stake in the team was sold without anything from SNY, which is a major part of the Mets revenues (maybe even the most lucrative parts). Which explains why they had to cut a pretty terrible deal. But that doesn't mean they sell off any player for mediocrity.

2. Acting quickly doesn't matter, at all. If the Red Sox make a move, other teams will also make a move. If the deal gets done 20 games faster, the Mets save about 15% of Reyes' salary.

3. Like I said above, I don't think Beltran matters at all in terms of this trade. I'd think of it as two deals, basically - one deal for Beltran, and one deal for Reyes. Any team can acquire Beltran for very little, and I'm sure that there will be some suitors. But giving up Reyes could possibly cost the Mets more in monetary terms than keeping him.

 

Ok - But my original deal was for those 4 players for Beltran and Reyes. Taking Beltran's salary offers a huge incentive for them.

 

Look. Say you can either trade Reyes for some good prospects, and $3mm, or you can trade Reyes and Beltran for a couple guys who can have solid impact (Navarro/Reddick/Lin) and a middle reliever who will do well in a bigger park), plus get $10mm more. The Beltran deal adds incentive because that will give them a huge amount of salary relief.

[Will617]

Ok - But my original deal was for those 4 players for Beltran and Reyes. Taking Beltran's salary offers a huge incentive for them.

 

Look. Say you can either trade Reyes for some good prospects, and $3mm, or you can trade Reyes and Beltran for a couple guys who can have solid impact (Navarro/Reddick/Lin) and a middle reliever who will do well in a bigger park), plus get $10mm more. The Beltran deal adds incentive because that will give them a huge amount of salary relief.

 

I don't think there is any incentive, because I think it's really easy for the Mets to get rid of Beltran. Contending teams are willing to take on salary without giving up prospects, if they think they're on the bubble and need a bat.

And it sounds like the Mets are willing to eat salary to get prospects back. So I doubt that there's any incentive to get a lesser deal for Reyes and get Beltran off.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm not convinced that Reyes is worth either a 3 month rental or the huge contract that he will get in the winter. If it's between the two, I'd go after Beltran. Scutaro/Lowrie are more valuable at SS than Drew/Cameron in RF, and I think Beltran would command less in prospects.

 

If I were to guess now, though, I doubt the Sox get either.

[BornToRun]

I'm not convinced that Reyes is worth either a 3 month rental or the huge contract that he will get in the winter. If it's between the two, I'd go after Beltran. Scutaro/Lowrie are more valuable at SS than Drew/Cameron in RF, and I think Beltran would command less in prospects.

 

If I were to guess now, though, I doubt the Sox get either.

 

As awesome as it would be to see Reyes at SS for the last half of the year, I really don't think it will happen nor do I really want Theo to do what it would take to get him. The farm system is already a bit depleted after the A-Gon trade and Reyes would require us to dig deeper into the farm. I've always been very tentative about trading prospects. I do, however, want to see a deal for Beltran get made. Drew and Cameron have the combined ability of a dead squirrel and Beltran isn't going to cost much, injury prone outfielders in their mid 30's rarely do. He'd be exactly what we need. Aside from that, maybe some help out of the bullpen but it seems that everyone is looking for that every year at the deadline.

[Dojji]

By the way, this is probably NSFW because it'll give you a boner (even you, Emmz), but check out this potential line up -

 

Ellsbury

Reyes

Gonzalez

Youk

Ortiz

Beltran

Pedroia

Salty

Crawford

 

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!

[BornToRun]

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!

 

Off topic, but imagine if we'd manage to pull Bautista away from Toronto.

[Dojji]

Well that won't happen, Reyes and Beltran is at least in viable pipe dream territory because you can sorta-justify it. The Jays are gonna try like anything to keep Bautista and I haven't heard where they were desparate for cash..

[d-money]

I dont want to give up Raunado.He could be ready to pitch next year.They have some prospects in the minors.I say no!!!

[BornToRun]

Well that won't happen' date=' Reyes and Beltran is at least in viable pipe dream territory because you can sorta-justify it. The Jays are gonna try like anything to keep Bautista and I haven't heard where they were desparate for cash..[/quote']

 

I was referring to the fact that we had talked to Toronto in the offseason about him.

[Spitball]

For the Reds' date=' this deal is asking them to trade 3 decent prospects for a half season of Marco Scutaro. I feel like we would be somewhat lucky to get one of them.[/quote']

 

Three prospects and money. Actually, Hamilton is the only one with real potential, and that is for his above average speed.

[Meh]

For the Reds, this deal is asking them to trade 3 decent prospects for a half season of Marco Scutaro. I feel like we would be somewhat lucky to get one of them.

And the Mets are short on money but it's not as if they're bankrupt. Trading Reyes would save them about $3 million this season, and I'm sure nearly every team can top an offer headlined by Reddick, Lin, and Navarro.

 

Agreed teams not in the playoff hunt would beat that deal and just collect the two draft picks at the end of the year and give their fanbase a star to put butts in the seats. Reds will get reyes imo for homer bailey, devin and a b prospect.

[Will617]

Three prospects and money. Actually' date=' Hamilton is the only one with real potential, and that is for his above average speed.[/quote']

 

Putting in cash to the deal isn't really important. And the three prospects all have some potential, it's not like the Sox are getting career minor leaguers. A lot of these players that aren't projected to become ML players, but still have potential, are valuable because they can develop past their projections (i.e. Youk, Pedroia).

[a700hitter]

If the Mets stay in the Wild Card hunt, they may not deal either player if the fans start coming out and ticket sales go up. If ticket revenues are not increasing as the deadline approaches, they will not worry about a fan backlash and they will offload one or both players. They will not get a major leaguer, a major league ready prospect , or any blue chip prospect(s) in return. They will dump as much of their salaries as they can. Essentially they will go to the highest bidders. We don't have to worry about depleting our farm system. If we take Beltran's salary, we could make up two fictional prospects for the Mets to put in the press release.

[BornToRun]

If the Mets stay in the Wild Card hunt' date=' they may not deal either player if the fans start coming out and ticket sales go up. If ticket revenues are not increasing as the deadline approaches, they will not worry about a fan backlash and they will offload one or both players. They will not get a major leaguer, a major league ready prospect , or any blue chip prospect(s) in return. They will dump as much of their salaries as they can. Essentially they will go to the highest bidders. We don't have to worry about depleting our farm system. If we take Beltran's salary, we could make up two fictional prospects for the Mets to put in the press release.[/quote']

 

Agreed. The Mets are starting to play very well and I could see them staying in it deep into the season. If Wright and Davis come back healthy, those are 2 big bats to add into the lineup and if they can get Bay to become anywhere close to what they signed him to be, the Mets could be sleepers. The only question is the pitching which could could be a problem. They get Johan back in August but aside from Dillon Gee, the rotation isn't exactly amazing and the bullpen has had a lot of problems. But if they're still in it at the deadline, I can see them holding on to Reyes and Beltran.

[alphilip77]

Even though it would be awesome if we could trade for him now, I say we should wait until the offseason to sign him if the FO has interest. Although he'll be more expensive compared to signing him to an extension after a trade, we wouldn't have to give up any prospects. Also, it would allow us to move Lowrie back to the utility role, let Scutaro leave, and give Iglesias more time in the minors to improve his hitting. Plus, we wouldn't have to worry about the MFYs getting into a bidding war with us since they're already committed to Jeter for two more seasons.

[Spitball]

Putting in cash to the deal isn't really important. And the three prospects all have some potential' date=' it's not like the Sox are getting career minor leaguers.[/quote']

 

Uh, I suggested sending cash to Cincinnati to cover part of Scutaro's salary. Also, the three Cincinnati prospects (plus two from Sox) would be going to the Mets in a three way trade. Reyes would be going to the Red Sox.

 

A lot of these players that aren't projected to become ML players' date=' but still have potential, are valuable because they can develop past their projections (i.e. Youk, Pedroia).[/quote']

 

Actually, all the prospects going to the Mets would be potential major leaguers, but Hamilton would be the top prospect with Reyes type potential.

[a700hitter]

Actually, all the prospects going to the Mets would be potential major leaguers, but Hamilton would be the top prospect with Reyes type potential.

... and the Mets FO has no interest... none. Their interest is $.

[TedWilliams101]

I think the Sox would have been far better off passing on Crawford this past offseason and used that money on Jose Reyes (signing him of course). Reyes is MUCH more worth a big contract than Crawford.

 

I don't think it would be out of the question to sign Reyes though. Remember, $21 million comes off the books next year just with JD Drew and Cameron out.

[a700hitter]

I think the Sox would have been far better off passing on Crawford this past offseason and used that money on Jose Reyes (signing him of course). Reyes is MUCH more worth a big contract than Crawford.

 

I don't think it would be out of the question to sign Reyes though. Remember, $21 million comes off the books next year just with JD Drew and Cameron out.

Crawford is the better investment. Reyes has had trouble staying on the field. Crawford has been consistently excellent year in and year out.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think the Sox would have been far better off passing on Crawford this past offseason and used that money on Jose Reyes (signing him of course). Reyes is MUCH more worth a big contract than Crawford.

 

I don't think it would be out of the question to sign Reyes though. Remember, $21 million comes off the books next year just with JD Drew and Cameron out.

 

Yeah but Gonzo is making $5.5mm this year, and he gets bumped to $21mm next year.

[Spitball]

... and the Mets FO has no interest... none. Their interest is $.

 

I guess I don't understand your response. If the Mets trade Reyes for prospects, it will be about the dollars. They will save millions of dollars and build for their future. There is absolutely zero chance they will sell him for cash.

[a700hitter]

I guess I don't understand your response. If the Mets trade Reyes for prospects' date=' it will be about the dollars. They will save millions of dollars and build for their future. There is absolutely zero chance they will sell him for cash.[/quote']The most important aspect of moving Reyes or Beltran will be getting the other team(s) to pick up as much of their salaries as possible. The team that picks up the most salary will get them. The prospects are an afterthought. Met management is not concerned about planning for the future at this time. They need to be able to make payroll from month to month until they get out from under the Madoff mess. If they can't repay the $200 million the new owner contributed, they will lose control of the franchise. It is as simple as that. They could get 4 Bryce Harpers and it would not mean squat, because that would not help them repay the loan and prevent them from losing control of the franchise.

[Spitball]

The most important aspect of moving Reyes or Beltran will be getting the other team(s) to pick up as much of their salaries as possible. The team that picks up the most salary will get them. The prospects are an afterthought. Met management is not concerned about planning for the future at this time. They need to be able to make payroll from month to month until they get out from under the Madoff mess. If they can't repay the $200 million the new owner contributed' date=' they will lose control of the franchise. It is as simple as that. They could get 4 Bryce Harpers and it would not mean squat, because that would not help them repay the loan and prevent them from losing control of the franchise.[/quote']

 

You don't quote sources, but today MLBTradeRumors.com is saying, "Two executives told Olney that they can't imagine being able to give up what the Mets would require in return to trade Jose Reyes." They are not talking about money. It is a given that the team taking on Reyes will obviously take on his salary and give up a wealth of talented prospects.

 

I suggested the three-way with Cincinnati because they have a wealth of minor league talent, a need for help at shortstop, and an inability to afford Reyes's contact. They give up Hamilton (a potential Reyes clone, a couple of years away), Francisco (a major league ready power hitting prosect), and Matt Maloney (a major league ready lefty mid-to-back of rotation starter). Hamilton is the key here and obviously the Sox take on Reyes's contract. Cincinnati gets Scutaro and money to help pay his contract.

[a700hitter]

You don't quote sources' date=' but today MLBTradeRumors.com is saying, "Two executives told Olney that they can't imagine being able to give up what the Mets would require in return to trade Jose Reyes." They are [i']not[/i] talking about money. It is a given that the team taking on Reyes will obviously take on his salary and give up a wealth of talented prospects.

 

I suggested the three-way with Cincinnati because they have a wealth of minor league talent, a need for help at shortstop, and an inability to afford Reyes's contact. They give up Hamilton (a potential Reyes clone, a couple of years away), Francisco (a major league ready power hitting prosect), and Matt Maloney (a major league ready lefty mid-to-back of rotation starter). Hamilton is the key here and obviously the Sox take on Reyes's contract. Cincinnati gets Scutaro and money to help pay his contract.

The media outlets have been manipulated by the Mets for years. I give little or no credence to their stories about the Mets. I know people in the Mets organization and I have close friends that know other Met FO personnel. At this time the organization is in disarray, and it has been ever since the Madoff scandal first broke. There have been meetings with the Commissioner's office since 2009 about the financial condition of the ownership. These meetings have not been publicized. Believe what you want to believe about trade rumors. The Mets will keep Beltran and/or Reyes if the Mets are still in the playoff hunt and their ticket sales are spiking at the trade deadline. If the ticket sales are not improving, one or both players will be dumped for money. Prospects will be inconsequential. Beltran will be most important to move, because he is much more expensive and injury prone. If the Mets are looking to move these guys at the deadline, the Red Sox need only bring their checkbooks.

[Palodios]

The most important aspect of moving Reyes or Beltran will be getting the other team(s) to pick up as much of their salaries as possible. The team that picks up the most salary will get them. The prospects are an afterthought. Met management is not concerned about planning for the future at this time. They need to be able to make payroll from month to month until they get out from under the Madoff mess. If they can't repay the $200 million the new owner contributed' date=' they will lose control of the franchise. It is as simple as that. They could get 4 Bryce Harpers and it would not mean squat, because that would not help them repay the loan and prevent them from losing control of the franchise.[/quote']

 

Seriously, it doesn't matter how badly managed this team is, Reyes is not getting traded for scraps. We're talking 3 million here, not 30. They lose more money in ticket sales if they trade him away.

[a700hitter]

Seriously' date=' it doesn't matter how badly managed this team is, Reyes is not getting traded for scraps. We're talking 3 million here, not 30. They lose more money in ticket sales if they trade him away.[/quote']Yes, he is inexpensive compared to Beltran. Moving Reyes could cause ticket sales to decrease, and if that lost revenue were to exceed $3 million, the Mets will keep Reyes. Teams very rarely part with Blue Chippers for rent a players for 3 months. If there is no financial upside to trading Reyes, they will not move him for second tier prospects which is all they would get. They'd rather keep Reyes for the 3 months and then blame his greed (or some other excuse) for him leaving as a FA. Beltran is a gonner if any team wants his salary, and I could see Reyes going in a package with Beltran if the acquiring team was willing to pick up the entire salary of both players. In the end, I don't think the Mets will not be acquiring any top prospects. I'd be shocked if they did. I could only see it happening if two or more teams were willing to pick up both salaries in full. I think that is a remote possibility.