Let the Jose Reyes Sweepstakes Begin

[a700hitter]

I hope they get him. He is a dynamic player and a big talent.

Let the Jose Reyes talk commence

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff June 17, 2011 12:07 PM

 

By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff

 

People e-mail all the time asking whether the Red Sox should try and get a certain player. Usually it's wishful thinking.

 

But when a reader named Matt e-mailed today and asked whether the Sox should pursue a trade for Jose Reyes in the wake of Jed Lowrie's shoulder injury, I had to at least stop and think about it.

 

A few things to consider:

 

1. The first step is to figure out how injured Lowrie is, obviously. If he's going to be fine in a month, there's no point in making a trade.

 

2. Then decide how you view Marco Scutaro or the possibility of using Jose Iglesias. Based on his poor hitting in AAA (.224/.263/.229), Jose is nowhere near ready. But Scutaro is a solid major league shortstop.

 

3. Realize that Reyes is a rental. The Sox invested $8 million in Iglesias. They're not going to give up on him after less than two years. Reyes could be a fantastic player for three months but then he's going somewhere else for big money.

 

4. The Mets need payroll relief. But Reyes is their superstar. This would be like the Red Sox falling on hard times and deciding to deal Dustin Pedroia. The Mets would want a lot for Reyes and GM Sandy Alderson is no dope. He's not taking Josh Reddick and a bag of rocks.

 

5. Do they need him? The Sox already have a high-powered offense. Reyes would make it even better. But pitching wins. Trading for Reyes would use up chips that could be used to pursue a pitcher if that need arise.

 

6. Think of the future. The Sox gave up three major prospects to obtain Adrian Gonzalez. You can't keep looting the farm system.

 

It's fun to think about it and Reyes is a fun player to watch. But this would be a move that requires a lot of debate. It's hard to imagine at the moment.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Number 3 is a really good point.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox have FOUR, count them FOUR guys competing for SS-- Iggy, Lowrie, Scutaro, Navarro. I'd rather use the best of that combination than trade Ranaudo and Lavarnway for a half season rental.

[a700hitter]

Number 3 is a really good point.

The solution to #3 is easy. Iglesias is off the table for a 3 month rental. If it is atrade and sign, that's a different story, but Reyes will want to test the market. No one is going to part with a major league ready prospect like Iglesias for a rental.

[ORS]

I think Abe's take is right on. It's worth some internal debate within the FO and some discussion with the Mets' FO. But in the end, it's not something I see happening after the Gonzalez trade.

[a700hitter]

I think Abe's take is right on. It's worth some internal debate within the FO and some discussion with the Mets' FO. But in the end' date=' it's not something I see happening after the Gonzalez trade.[/quote']If Lowrie's shoulder is damaged, I think this move becomes a serious consideration.

[ORS]

If Lowrie's shoulder keeps him out for some time, I think the plan B is to play the original starter (Scutaro) and having Navarro/Sutton fill in as utility guys. Sure, they'll be active trying to figure out if they can/should get this deal done, but I think there's enough internal coverage to make them not overreach, which is what I suspect it will take to get it done. At a minimum, the offer to get Reyes will have to look more appealing than the 1/1s draft picks they'll get as compensation. Then there's the added bonus it will take to make it look they aren't just bailing for their fans. Right now, the Mets have a perfectly legit excuse, the financial mess, to not sign him in the offseason and take their supplemental picks. Losing him mid-season without a "Wow" deal probably hurts them in the PR department.

 

I just don't see the Sox offering up enough talent to get him, but I'd be happy to be surprised.

[a700hitter]

If Lowrie's shoulder keeps him out for some time, I think the plan B is to play the original starter (Scutaro) and having Navarro/Sutton fill in as utility guys. Sure, they'll be active trying to figure out if they can/should get this deal done, but I think there's enough internal coverage to make them not overreach, which is what I suspect it will take to get it done. At a minimum, the offer to get Reyes will have to look more appealing than the 1/1s draft picks they'll get as compensation. Then there's the added bonus it will take to make it look they aren't just bailing for their fans. Right now, the Mets have a perfectly legit excuse, the financial mess, to not sign him in the offseason and take their supplemental picks. Losing him mid-season without a "Wow" deal probably hurts them in the PR department.

 

I just don't see the Sox offering up enough talent to get him, but I'd be happy to be surprised.

The Sox are ceative and the Mets FO has a talent and proclivity to deceive their fans. We can wait and hope.

[yankees228]

I could be wrong, but I think Reyes finishes out the season with the Mets ... if only because the fan backlash would be enormous if he was traded.

[Palodios]

The Sox are ceative and the Mets FO has a talent and proclivity to deceive their fans. We can wait and hope.

 

There is no creativity involved here. There are two options. One, give up a boatload of talent for Reyes. Two, take in an albatross contract from the Mets (or someone else who has prospects the Mets want) and get Reyes. I don't think they can afford the second deal.

 

Crippling the farm system isn't the answer-- especially when you actually have major league quality depth at the position you're filling.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah, Jose Reyes would be a good, but we've got Yamico Navarro fresh off the DL, but he's still hitting .322/.425/.589 in AAA. At some point, you bring him up and see if it translates. Or, you can create a package around Navarro + Reddick + some mid-level players like Che-Hsuan Lin and Jason Rice, and you go after Reyes and Beltran.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By the way, this is probably NSFW because it'll give you a boner (even you, Emmz), but check out this potential line up -

 

Ellsbury

Reyes

Gonzalez

Youk

Ortiz

Beltran

Pedroia

Salty

Crawford

[Meh]

Or' date=' you can create a package around Navarro + Reddick + some mid-level players like Che-Hsuan Lin and Jason Rice, and you go after Reyes and Beltran.[/quote']

 

Did you not read no 4? AND you want Beltran too?

[ORS]

I'd be content if they just got Beltran. He can't be offered arb, so he should cost next to nothing in talent. And, he addresses a greater need than Reyes.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Did you not read no 4? AND you want Beltran too?

 

So you're saying Navarro + Rice + Lin = 1 bag of rocks? /dumb :thumbdown

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'd be content if they just got Beltran. He can't be offered arb' date=' so he should cost next to nothing in talent. And, he addresses a greater need than Reyes.[/b']

 

This is what I've been trying to preach for the past couple weeks.

[Will617]

When was the last time a young, 5-6 win player that played a position nearly every team needs help at, was available and cost a package of players like Navarro and Reddick? At the very least, I would imagine both Iglesias and Doubront would go. Or, possibly Lowrie and lesser pieces.

Reyes will definitely not be a rental. I'd have no doubt that if the Sox traded for him, he would be extended. But I doubt they pony up the pieces to acquire him. They do have money after this season, but that is probably needed to address areas like a 5th starter, DH, some bullpen help (Papelbon in particular) and arbitration raises.

[Will617]

So you're saying Navarro + Rice + Lin = 1 bag of rocks? /dumb :thumbdown

 

Neither Navarro nor Lin sound like much more than 4th outfielders/5th infielder types. Same goes for Reddick, although I still think he could have a decent career (but I doubt most people that follow baseball would). I've never even heard of Rice.

[Spitball]

Crippling the farm system isn't the answer-- especially when you actually have major league quality depth at the position you're filling.

 

I agree. Perhaps the Sox could seek a taker for Scutaro in a three-way deal. Jim Bowden has been talking about the Reds having the need for Reyes and the prospects to acquire him. However, the Reds are reluctant to pay a king's ransom in prospects and take on Reyes's remaining contract.

 

What if the Reds send the Mets third baseman Juan Francisco, speedy shortstop Billy Hamilton, and left handed starting pitcher Matt Maloney.

 

The Sox send Marco Scutaro and cash to the Reds. Also, they send Josh Reddick and Navarro to the Mets.

 

The Mets send Jose Reyes to the Red Sox.

[snydersminipretzels]

The Red Sox have FOUR' date=' count them FOUR guys competing for SS-- Iggy, Lowrie, Scutaro, Navarro. I'd rather use the best of that combination than trade Ranaudo and Lavarnway for a half season rental.[/quote']

 

No chance the Mets take that offer.

[SoxFanForsyth]

When was the last time a young' date=' 5-6 win player that played a position nearly every team needs help at, was available and cost a package of players like Navarro and Reddick?[/b'] At the very least, I would imagine both Iglesias and Doubront would go. Or, possibly Lowrie and lesser pieces.

Reyes will definitely not be a rental. I'd have no doubt that if the Sox traded for him, he would be extended. But I doubt they pony up the pieces to acquire him. They do have money after this season, but that is probably needed to address areas like a 5th starter, DH, some bullpen help (Papelbon in particular) and arbitration raises.

 

When was the last time a team was so close to bankruptcy that they agreed to terms with Einhorn in which he can purchase majority rights for $1.00 if they don't repay him in a 3 year span?

[Will617]

What if the Reds send the Mets third baseman Juan Francisco' date=' speedy shortstop Billy Hamilton, and left handed starting pitcher Matt Maloney.[/quote']

 

For the Reds, this deal is asking them to trade 3 decent prospects for a half season of Marco Scutaro. I feel like we would be somewhat lucky to get one of them.

And the Mets are short on money but it's not as if they're bankrupt. Trading Reyes would save them about $3 million this season, and I'm sure nearly every team can top an offer headlined by Reddick, Lin, and Navarro.

[snydersminipretzels]

I agree. Perhaps the Sox could seek a taker for Scutaro in a three-way deal. Jim Bowden has been talking about the Reds having the need for Reyes and the prospects to acquire him. However' date=' the Reds are reluctant to pay a king's ransom in prospects [i']and[/i] take on Reyes's remaining contract.

 

What if the Reds send the Mets third baseman Juan Francisco, speedy shortstop Billy Hamilton, and left handed starting pitcher Matt Maloney.

 

The Sox send Marco Scutaro and cash to the Reds. Also, they send Josh Reddick and Navarro to the Mets.

 

The Mets send Jose Reyes to the Red Sox.

 

Navarro and Reddick for Reyes? Another bad deal.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm sorry. This isn't a Mets team who has the bankroll to pick and choose who they dump for who. They're in a complete s*** situation.

 

Einhorn just loaned the Mets $200mm for a 33% stake in the company. And get this. The Mets have to repay, wait for it, THE ENTIRE AMOUNT in 3 years, or Einhorn can pay an extra dollar and obtain a 60% share of the team. And when he DOES get repaid in 3 years, he RETAINS his 33% share of the team!

 

If any of you think that deal right there results from a smart FO, then I'm done arguing with you because you're delusional. This is a point in the Met's franchise that they don't have the option of picking and choosing. They are dumping salary.

[Palodios]

I'm sorry. This isn't a Mets team who has the bankroll to pick and choose who they dump for who. They're in a complete s*** situation.

 

They're desperate, sure. But dropping your superstar, a money maker, and stadium-filler may cost them more than it saves them. Plus, Reyes would be a significant improvement on 25 other teams in the majors, surely one of them can give a better deal than this.

[Will617]

Einhorn just loaned the Mets $200mm for a 33% stake in the company. And get this. The Mets have to repay, wait for it, THE ENTIRE AMOUNT in 3 years, or Einhorn can pay an extra dollar and obtain a 60% share of the team. And when he DOES get repaid in 3 years, he RETAINS his 33% share of the team!

 

If any of you think that deal right there results from a smart FO, then I'm done arguing with you because you're delusional. This is a point in the Met's franchise that they don't have the option of picking and choosing. They are dumping salary.

 

1. You're making a bigger deal of this "omg he could buy the team for $1" issue than it is. They wouldn't have that provision if they weren't confident of paying back the $200 million.

2. Even if the Mets FO is completely idiotic, it's not like every other team in baseball couldn't top that offer to get Reyes. It would literally make no sense for the Mets to take an offer made up of players projected to become utility players if they could get a better deal.

3. It would be completely idiotic to dump your star player to save $3 million. They lose so much revenue from trading him that it's not likely to be worth it.

4. They're not trying to trade David Wright, and he's making a ton more than Reyes. That doesn't exactly sound like a team so desperate to dump salary that they would give up Reyes to the first bidder, does it?

[SoxFanForsyth]

They're desperate' date=' sure. But dropping your superstar, a money maker, and stadium-filler may cost them more than it saves them. Plus, Reyes would be a significant improvement on 25 other teams in the majors, surely one of them can give a better deal than this.[/quote']

 

I think right now they're probably interested in who will pick up the most money rather than the prospects they get in return. Reyes, sure I can see them wanting a bit more in return, but for Beltran, a guy who will give them 1. No compensation picks because he can't be offered arbitration, and he's not even a Type A or B FA anyway, and 2. they have no intent of resigning, I think it's all about the $$$, and then the prospects.

[ORS]

I'm sorry. This isn't a Mets team who has the bankroll to pick and choose who they dump for who. They're in a complete s*** situation.

 

Einhorn just loaned the Mets $200mm for a 33% stake in the company. And get this. The Mets have to repay, wait for it, THE ENTIRE AMOUNT in 3 years, or Einhorn can pay an extra dollar and obtain a 60% share of the team. And when he DOES get repaid in 3 years, he RETAINS his 33% share of the team!

 

If any of you think that deal right there results from a smart FO, then I'm done arguing with you because you're delusional. This is a point in the Met's franchise that they don't have the option of picking and choosing. They are dumping salary.

Wait a minute, Einhorn is Finkle and Finkle is Einhorn?

[redsoxbeatz]

Id much rather get a new #5 pitcher and let scuttaro play SS and let iglesias get a some playtime too. Reyes is badass but our offense is pretty much stacked at this point.

[SoxFanForsyth]

1. You're making a bigger deal of this "omg he could buy the team for $1" issue than it is. They wouldn't have that provision if they weren't confident of paying back the $200 million.

2. Even if the Mets FO is completely idiotic, it's not like every other team in baseball couldn't top that offer to get Reyes. It would literally make no sense for the Mets to take an offer made up of players projected to become utility players if they could get a better deal.

3. It would be completely idiotic to dump your star player to save $3 million. They lose so much revenue from trading him that it's not likely to be worth it.

4. They're not trying to trade David Wright, and he's making a ton more than Reyes. That doesn't exactly sound like a team so desperate to dump salary that they would give up Reyes to the first bidder, does it?

 

1. Actually the mere fact that they agreed to that clause is a huge deal, and shows just how desperate they were for money. Don't you think they could have gotten a loan somewhere else that didn't include a stipulation in which almost 2/3 of the entire team would be transferred if they weren't able to pick up $200mm over the next 3 years?

 

How the hell can you construe any sort of confidence in a team when they're literally giving away a 33% share because they can't make payroll and are having to borrow $200mm. It blows my mind that you think this team has confidence that they can repay this amount. They're GIVING away a 1/3 ownership of their team. Even if he gets repaid. He keeps the ownership.

 

2. This is a good point, but the Red Sox are one of the few teams who can go out and make a deal quickly and pick up a majority of these salaries. Beltran + Reyes makes a combined $29.5mm this year. If the Sox picked these guys up after 70 games and ate 75% of their salaries, they would be giving up those 4 prospects + $12.56mm. The quicker you act, the cheaper (in prospects) the trade. And there are very few other teams who can afford to pick up 75% of the salaries.

 

3. $3mm? You do realize that, as of game 70, these two players are owed $16.75mm, right? That's a pretty significant amount of money.

 

4. Wright has 2 years left on his contract. Reyes and Beltran are gone after this year. By dumping these two players, they don't affect years 2012 on.