Francona: Any lead safe?

[SoxFanForsyth]

While I agree the Red Sox want to protect their investments' date=' you're assuming that the injuries stem from overuse. There is no evidence behind that. Beckett had back problems last year and before that had no prior history of any major arm troubles. Much like you're [b']inferring[/b] that you can't take results and attribute them directly from an action in this case:

 

You can't infer that Beckett was ineffective as a direct result of being left out there too long in his last start. While it may be true, you can't state as a fact it is. It's an easy excuse for him to use, but you never heard it out of his mouth, or anyone else's. You're also infering that "arm soreness" is something unusual. Every pitcher who throws 100+ pitches many of them 95 mph has arm soreness after a game. Why do you think they wrap themselves up?

 

First off, you are the one inferring. I am the one implying.

 

Second off, I never said that leaving Beckett out there too long was the cause of him being ineffective at any point this season. I am saying that each pitcher is conditioned for a set amount of innings. If it's around 240-250, you throw them 200-210 during the regular season so that you have 30-40 innings of bullets left in the tank for the post season.

 

Third, I don't need scientific proof that overuse of a pitcher will result in depreciated value and stats. It's not just a pitchers arm that is in use. It's his legs, his back, his arm, and his core. I don't want my pitcher going into a Game 7 start with legs like jello because he threw 225 innings during the regular season.

 

Finally - If injuries didn't stem from overuse, then why don't we throw Lester out there every 3rd game on short rest and pump him up to 400 IP? Because we don't want him to get hurt! It's the exact same thing.

 

Save your bullets.

[DirtDog]

Explain this to me then:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml

 

Throwing 400 innings a season didn't exactly derail Cy Young's career.

 

Have human bodies deteriorated over the past century?

[Palodios]

Explain this to me then:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml

 

Throwing 400 innings a season didn't exactly derail Cy Young's career.

 

Have human bodies deteriorated over the past century?

 

Did Cy throw 97 mph?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Explain this to me then:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml

 

Throwing 400 innings a season didn't exactly derail Cy Young's career.

 

Have human bodies deteriorated over the past century?

 

Wow. Really?? Come on man. Be realistic. You're using Cy Young as an example of the workload that pitchers should use in the modern era?

 

1. He debuted over 120 years ago.

 

2. He had a career 3.83 K/9. He threw exclusively to contact.

 

3. Major League Baseball named the award for the best pitcher in each league after him. And you're using him as a benchmark.

 

The game is entirely different right now than it was back then. You can't even compare the two. In 1901, the entire Red Sox team hit 37 HR. Combined. 37 combined HR.

 

You can't compare the two.

[Palodios]

It is time for a regime change. It isn't 2004 anymore. There are some people in this organization that are killing the team. Wakefield, Bogar, Saltalamacchia, Francona. These guys singlehandedly kill any momentum this team can get. Lackey goes to the bullpen as a mop-up guy until he's ready to pitch like a major leaguer, and is replaced in the rotation by Aceves.

[SoxSport]

I 'd be shocked if Tito was fired. I don't think this organization is capable of firing a manager who has been around for so long. Sure they fired Grady Little, but Grady made an ass out of himself leaving Pedro in there for slaughter, and something had to be done.

 

The question is WHY this team is underachieving. Is it Tito? the chemistry? complacency?

I don't know if anyone really knows. I do think Theo has to share some of the grief.

 

That commentator on TV the other night (the ex-pitcher) may have said it right: he said the Red Sox have a lot of very good players, but they are not yet a good team. That points to the management, as well as the players.

 

When Ellsbury leads off the 8th in a tie game, and is swinging at the first pitch, you know there's a problem in Houston--er, Boston.

[SCM33]

Wow. Really?? Come on man. Be realistic. You're using Cy Young as an example of the workload that pitchers should use in the modern era?

 

1. He debuted over 120 years ago.

 

2. He had a career 3.83 K/9. He threw exclusively to contact.

 

3. Major League Baseball named the award for the best pitcher in each league after him. And you're using him as a benchmark.

 

The game is entirely different right now than it was back then. You can't even compare the two. In 1901, the entire Red Sox team hit 37 HR. Combined. 37 combined HR.

 

You can't compare the two.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Pitchers pitched to contact, the mound was only 45 feet away until about 1890 I believe. The pitchers also didnt throw nearly as hard. They werent trying to blow anyone away, thus straining their arms. Strikeouts happened by accident most of the time. Picture Tim Wakefield, without the knuckleball.

 

Walter Johnson, who was considered a "flame thrower" in his time, K'd 200 or more only 7 times in his career, in fact...he only averaged 163.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I 'd be shocked if Tito was fired. I don't think this organization is capable of firing a manager who has been around for so long. Sure they fired Grady Little, but Grady made an ass out of himself leaving Pedro in there for slaughter, and something had to be done.

 

The question is WHY this team is underachieving. Is it Tito? the chemistry? complacency?

I don't know if anyone really knows. I do think Theo has to share some of the grief.

 

That commentator on TV the other night (the ex-pitcher) may have said it right: he said the Red Sox have a lot of very good players, but they are not yet a good team. That points to the management, as well as the players.

 

When Ellsbury leads off the 8th in a tie game, and is swinging at the first pitch, you know there's a problem in Houston--er, Boston.

:thumbsup: