Yankee Trade Rumors- Latest: Liriano to the Yanks??

[Dipre]

Over the last 2 seasons' date=' the Yankees had been markedly better than the Red Sox. So you must have gotten a kick out of me saying it and me also being right. Right now, as constructed, the sox are better IMO. But we are one top notch starter away from jumping past you[/quote']

 

Ah, such mastery of the strawman, as has come to be expected.

 

Point to the part of my post that refers to "past teams" (Even though, if healthy, the 2010 Sox were arguably better than the Yanks, but i digress).

 

Anyways, the focus of my post was the here and now, since you've spent the entire time since the Sox acquired Crawford, Gonzales, and fixed the bullpen pointing to moves "that would make the Yanks better than the Sox".

 

Does it really bother you that much? Wait, don't answer, that was rhetorical question.

 

You've basically lost your main reason for coming to this site, which was rubbing "Yankee superiority" all over Red Sox fan's faces. Your lack of ability to achieve this anymore is absolutely delightful.

[jacksonianmarch]

You continue to misinterpret what a strawman argument is.

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, look at my join date. Tell me what the purpose of my presence in 2007 and 2008 was? It's been nice seeing the yanks be the clearly superior team for 2 seasons. Right now they aren't.

[BSN07]

Also' date=' look at my join date. Tell me what the purpose of my presence in 2007 and 2008 was? It's been nice seeing the yanks be the clearly superior team for [b']2 seasons[/b]. Right now they aren't.

 

They weren't superior last season. The Yankees finished 6 games ahead of the Sox AAAA team. That's nothing to brag about.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Also' date=' look at my join date. Tell me what the purpose of my presence in 2007 and 2008 was? It's been nice seeing the yanks be the[b'] clearly superior team for 2 seasons. Right now they aren't.[/b]

 

One would assume that a clearly superior team would do better than a 9-9 split, right? Oh wait, the Sox and Yanks split the season series 9-9 both of the past two years.

 

And last year, the it was the Sox AAAA squad that split with the Yanks.

[italstallianion]

Haha and then compare the teams per payroll efficiency, and the Yankees are even less "clearly superior" than they were before.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Haha and then compare the teams per payroll efficiency' date=' and the Yankees are even less "clearly superior" than they were before.[/quote']

 

Here's an interesting article I read back in November by Pete Abraham of the Globe -

 

When the Red Sox fell $8 million short of matching Detroit's offer to Victor Martinez, some e-mails and comments on the blog accused John Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino of being cheap.

 

One particularly irate e-mailer sent a 400-word missive (on Thanksgiving, no less) that said, "they need to open the vault and stop short-changing the fans."

 

In the interest of learning the truth, we went over to Cot's Baseball Contracts to check it out.

 

Henry and his group have owned the Sox since 2002. Here are the top 10 Major League payroll expenditures going back to that season:

 

1. Yankees $1.679 billion

2. Red Sox $1.145 billion

3. Mets $1,040 billion

4. Cubs $924.4 million

5. Angels $905.5 million

6. Dodgers $904.3 million

7. Phillies $844.2 million

8. Mariners $838.3 million

9. Braves $836.3 million

10. Tigers $784.4 million

 

To be more specific with the Red Sox payroll:

 

2002: $108.3 million

2003: $99.9 million

2004: $127.2 million

2005: $123.5 million

2006: $120.1 million

2007: $143.0 million

2008: $133.4 million

2009: $121.7 million

2010: $168.1 million

 

Since 2002, the Red Sox have raised their payroll by 55.2 percent. Within the American League East, they have outspent the Rays by approximately $800 million and the Orioles and Blue Jays by $511 million.

 

Within all of baseball, they have outspent the next highest-spending team (the Mets) by 10 percent and the next highest-spending American League team (the Angels) by nearly 26 percent.

 

The problem, of course, are the Yankees, who have outspent the Red Sox by 46.6 percent since Henry became owner, an average of $59.3 million a year.

 

Though the Red Sox have significantly outspent 28 other teams, the disparity with the Yankees is so striking that people tend to focus on it.

 

But for the extra $534 million the Yankees have spent the last nine years, they have 36 more wins in the regular season and a grand total of two more victories in the playoffs. For a team with apparently unlimited resources, that is not much of a reward.

 

If your argument is the Red Sox need to spend their money more effectively, perhaps you have a point. But look at the Mets and Cubs, who have dropped close to $2 billion on a lot of nothing.

 

Wait a minute. You forgot something. The $534mm does NOT include the CBT payments, of which the Yankees have outspent the Red Sox $192,213,073 to $15,346,928, a difference of $176,866,145, meaning, since 2002, the Yanks have outspent the Red Sox by a whopping $710,866,145. All for 36 more regular season wins and 2 more playoff wins. And 1 less World Series.

 

To put this in context, the Yanks have outspent the Sox by (on average) $78,985,127 per year.

 

Additionally, the extra games won (38 total) have cost $18,707,004 per win.

 

:harhar:

[Palodios]

That's ridiculous. SoxFanForsyth, have I mentioned that you're my favorite Talksox poster?

[italstallianion]

Give it time Palodios, the new 2011 superlatives don't come out until December.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I should go ahead and leave now while I'm still ahead then :thumbsup:

 

Edit: Thanks Paladios. I try to post something worth reading every once in a while.

[boston22407]

i dont know if this has been posted yet but :

 

According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, the Yankees and Twins have not spoken about a trade in over a month.

The Yanks called the Twins about possibly acquiring Francisco Liriano sometime in January and the Minnesota front office apparently did some research on the Yankees' farm system, but talks stalled at one point and have not picked back up. It makes little sense for the Twins, who expect to compete in 2011, to trade their ace before the start of the regular season. Liriano is under contract through 2012.

[Dipre]

You continue to misinterpret what a strawman argument is.

 

It's funny you would be so good at something you refuse to admit you do.

 

Dipre says: "The Sox are better than the Yanks, and you desperately want it to not be that way anymore."

 

You say: "But for the past two years (which was not my claim, and it's an imaginary argument you just made up) the Yankees have been better constructed than the Red Sox (Victory over the strawman argument)."

 

Do i need to create a PowerPoint presentation of why it was a strawman?

[italstallianion]

It's funny you would be so good at something you refuse to admit you do.

 

Dipre says: "The Sox are better than the Yanks, and you desperately want it to not be that way anymore."

 

You say: "But for the past two years (which was not my claim, and it's an imaginary argument you just made up) the Yankees have been better constructed than the Red Sox (Victory over the strawman argument)."

 

Do i need to create a PowerPoint presentation of why it was a strawman?

 

 

 

Can you make one anyway?

[Dipre]

This is quite ironic coming from the guy who couldn't attach a poll to a new thread.

[italstallianion]

That wasn't what I meant. I was saying "Can you make one" as to encourage you to make one, as in "Can you please make one" NOT to question your ability in making one, or as in "Can you actually create one"

 

I thought that my intention was clear, but after reading your post I can see how you interpreted it the way you did. I simply meant that "Can you go ahead and make one anyway"

[SoxFanForsyth]

That wasn't what I meant. I was saying "Can you make one" as to encourage you to make one, as in "Can you please make one" NOT to question your ability in making one, or as in "Can you actually create one"

 

I thought that my intention was clear, but after reading your post I can see how you interpreted it the way you did. I simply meant that "Can you go ahead and make one anyway"

 

I think we need another PPT presentation to guide us through that post.

[italstallianion]

Haha my point was that I wasn't saying anything rude to Dipre. I can see how he interpreted it that way, but it wasn't what I meant. It's just that the word choice could mean either what I was trying to say, and what Dipre had interpreted. Had I noticed that I would have been clearer the first time.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Here's an interesting article I read back in November by Pete Abraham of the Globe -

 

 

 

Wait a minute. You forgot something. The $534mm does NOT include the CBT payments, of which the Yankees have outspent the Red Sox $192,213,073 to $15,346,928, a difference of $176,866,145, meaning, since 2002, the Yanks have outspent the Red Sox by a whopping $710,866,145. All for 36 more regular season wins and 2 more playoff wins. And 1 less World Series.

 

To put this in context, the Yanks have outspent the Sox by (on average) $78,985,127 per year.

 

Additionally, the extra games won (38 total) have cost $18,707,004 per win.

 

:harhar:

 

Good math Forsyth haha.

 

That's ridiculous. SoxFanForsyth' date=' have I mentioned that you're my favorite Talksox poster?[/quote']

 

[SoxFanForsyth]

What can I say, I'm an accountant. This is what I do all day. My life revolves around numbers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Haha my point was that I wasn't saying anything rude to Dipre. I can see how he interpreted it that way' date=' but it wasn't what I meant. It's just that the word choice could mean either what I was trying to say, and what Dipre had interpreted. Had I noticed that I would have been clearer the first time.[/quote']

 

Haha I know I am just giving you s*** man. I read it the way you intended as well, but can see how Dipre could have interpreted it the other way.

[Palodios]

 

[EXman369]

Wait a minute. You forgot something. The $534mm does NOT include the CBT payments, of which the Yankees have outspent the Red Sox $192,213,073 to $15,346,928, a difference of $176,866,145, meaning, since 2002, the Yanks have outspent the Red Sox by a whopping $710,866,145. All for 36 more regular season wins and 2 more playoff wins. And 1 less World Series.

 

To put this in context, the Yanks have outspent the Sox by (on average) $78,985,127 per year.

 

Additionally, the extra games won (38 total) have cost $18,707,004 per win.

 

:harhar:

 

BOOM!!!

No yankee response yet well played, well played

[BSN07]

The Twins turned down a Yankee offer of Ivan Nova and Ramiro Pena for Francisco Liriano earlier this winter, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com.

 

What?! lol I can just imagine that conversation.

 

Cashman: Hey Bill, it's Cash.

Bill: Hey Brian, how goes it Brah?(this is the lingo in Minny according to Emmz)

Cashman: Not so good. That douche bag Lee went to the Phillies.

Bill: Ya I figured you'd be calling after throwing the bank at Lee fell short.

Cashman: Well to be honest I called Seattle first, but I never made it past the Z's secretary.

Bill: I think they are called "Administrative assistants" now.

Cashman: f*** her, I'm with the Yankees...

Smith: Chill Brah.

Cashman: I can't chill you *******! I have a 200M payroll and a s*** starting rotation. Pettitte is in Texas plucking chickens and I have already signed every retread there is.

Bill: So what do you want from me?

Cashman: I want Liriano you f***ing tool!

Bill: Hahaha, but why would we want to trade our best SP to you?

Cashman: Because I represent the Yankees.

Bill: ... And?

Cashman: Don't be a dick, resistance is futile.

Bill: Whatevuh brah. What are you offering?

Cashman: Ivan Nova and Ramiro Pena.

Bill: ...

Cashman: Oh and we will eat his entire salary.

Bill: ... But he doesn't make a lot of $

Cashman: f*** you, we are the Yankees! Resistance is futile!

Bill: Sorry Cash brah, but you can't pull your routine this time around. There is no financial barrel to bend me over this time.

Cashman ...(sphincter tightening)

Bill: Your gonna have to offer us 4 prospects, and we will start at Montero and Betances for the nucleus of the deal.

Cashman: ...But we are the Yankees... And if Hank finds out I've got nothing he's going to go ape s***.

Bill: lol, ape s***.

 

"Hank storms into Cashman office and grabs the phone out of Cashmans hand"

Bill: Cash brah, you ok?

Hank: "incoherent ape type grunts and screams"

Bill: WTF?

Hank: Yankees! oo oo ahhhaaa!

Cashman: I'm sorry Hank please calm down! Your hurting me...

Bill: ...click...beep beep. Helen?

Helen: Yes Mr. Smith?

Bill: Ya, can you call NYPD again.

Helen: Is it about Mr. Steinbrenner?

Bill: Yes. He's gone ape s*** again and is beating the hell out of Cash and Cash just won't leave them. It's pretty sad.

Helen: Should I call the battered GM's and see if they have room for him?

Bill: Don't bother, you know he won't go. He never learns.

[Meh]

What?! lol I can just imagine that conversation.

 

Cashman: Hey Bill, it's Cash.

Bill: Hey Brian, how goes it Brah?(this is the lingo in Minny according to Emmz)

Cashman: Not so good. That douche bag Lee went to the Phillies.

Bill: Ya I figured you'd be calling after throwing the bank at Lee fell short.

Cashman: Well to be honest I called Seattle first, but I never made it past the Z's secretary.

Bill: I think they are called "Administrative assistants" now.

Cashman: f*** her, I'm with the Yankees...

Smith: Chill Brah.

Cashman: I can't chill you *******! I have a 200M payroll and a s*** starting rotation. Pettitte is in Texas plucking chickens and I have already signed every retread there is.

Bill: So what do you want from me?

Cashman: I want Liriano you f***ing tool!

Bill: Hahaha, but why would we want to trade our best SP to you?

Cashman: Because I represent the Yankees.

Bill: ... And?

Cashman: Don't be a dick, resistance is futile.

Bill: Whatevuh brah. What are you offering?

Cashman: Ivan Nova and Ramiro Pena.

Bill: ...

Cashman: Oh and we will eat his entire salary.

Bill: ... But he doesn't make a lot of $

Cashman: f*** you, we are the Yankees! Resistance is futile!

Bill: Sorry Cash brah, but you can't pull your routine this time around. There is no financial barrel to bend me over this time.

Cashman ...(sphincter tightening)

Bill: Your gonna have to offer us 4 prospects, and we will start at Montero and Betances for the nucleus of the deal.

Cashman: ...But we are the Yankees... And if Hank finds out I've got nothing he's going to go ape s***.

Bill: lol, ape s***.

 

"Hank storms into Cashman office and grabs the phone out of Cashmans hand"

Bill: Cash brah, you ok?

Hank: "incoherent ape type grunts and screams"

Bill: WTF?

Hank: Yankees! oo oo ahhhaaa!

Cashman: I'm sorry Hank please calm down! Your hurting me...

Bill: ...click...beep beep. Helen?

Helen: Yes Mr. Smith?

Bill: Ya, can you call NYPD again.

Helen: Is it about Mr. Steinbrenner?

Bill: Yes. He's gone ape s*** again and is beating the hell out of Cash and Cash just won't leave them. It's pretty sad.

Helen: Should I call the battered GM's and see if they have room for him?

Bill: Don't bother, you know he won't go. He never learns.

 

You have too much time on your hand. That's what you call a why not offer. Obviously Bill Smith has been using some weed in the past so Cashman was hoping he'd be into it again. That package is better than what the Twins got for Johan.

[jacksonianmarch]

Payroll efficiency will never favor the yanks, and I doubt any fan really cares about their teams payroll. I know I don't. In terms of the offer above, it was a starting point. There isn't much sense in a 2 for 1 swap. I assume a deal for liriano will have 3-4 players going Minnesota's way. There seems to be too much smoke on this rumor to have no fire. I think this eventually gets done, but it could take an entire calendar yr

[BSN07]

Yes I obviously am bored and exaggerated the point to absurdity. I thought of adding a waiver to the bottom saying I was joking and this was just for bored fun

[jacksonianmarch]

from rotoworld

 

The Astros' Brett Myers is on the Yankees' radar as a potential addition to the back end of their rotation.

After facing him in a spring training game, the Yankees were impressed with what they saw. In 2010, Myers posted a personal best 3.14 ERA in a career high 223 2/3 innings. He is signed through the end of the year with an option for 2012

[jacksonianmarch]

I would definitely be on board with Myers. I like his contract status with an option for 2012. He's always been a guy who got it done when healthy, but health was a big concern. He missed more than half of 2009 due to injury and was yo-yo'd around into the closer role in 2007. He's a frontline guy on a bad team, but a guy who would slide in well into the middle of a rotation if needed. I like his stuff, he's been rather consistent in terms of peripherals and would be a good addition. My guess is that Houston would ask for a lot since he is coming off his best season. I wouldnt part with any of the B's for him, and since we need Nova this season, I wouldnt part with him either. Seeing as Houston now has some concern at the C position with Castro blowing out his knee, a deal structured around Romine would be the starting point, IMO.

[Palodios]

Let me paraphrase.

 

 

Cashman: I want Myers you f***ing tool!

Astros GM: Hahaha, but why would we want to trade our third best SP to you?

Cashman: Because I represent the Yankees.

Astros GM: ... And?

Cashman: Don't be a dick, resistance is futile.

Astros: Whatevuh brah. What are you offering?

Cashman: Romine.

Astros GM: ...

[jacksonianmarch]

So now Romine isnt a good prospect? Myers is what he is. He's a second tier starter in his mid 30s with an expiring contract at the end of the yr for the most part. We wont part with one of the B's for him and Montero is going to be with the big club. Outside of that, we have a TON of pitching and Romine, who is going to be a big league catcher, IMO, who also ranked in BAs top 100.