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Baseball Redraft League Draft and Discussion Thread

italstallianion

By italstallianion
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Dipre Worcester Red Sox

Dipre

Old-Timey Member
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Having the "stuff" to be a top-5 pitcher means more than having just 2 electric pitchers. You said that he had the stuff to be a top-5 pitcher, I doubt that he has the right pitches to do it. If you're a starting pitcher, you won't succeed based on a fastball and curveball alone.

Furthermore, can he sustain 100 MPH of velocity and still remain healthy? There are a lot of pitchers that cannot. There are a few that can (Verlander, Josh Johnson, and Ubaldo Jimenez, off the top of my head), but of the three that are list, all of them throw their secondary pitches about 40% of the time, all three of them throw at least an average changeup (in fact, Verlander and Jimenez's changeups have very strong run values). Feliz has not shown the ability to throw an average changeup, and until he does left-handed hitters will destroy him.

Having two very good, electric pitches does not automatically make you a top-5 pitcher. He has two pitches that could very well exist in the arsenal of a top-5 pitcher, but he doesn't come close to having the stuff that a top-5 pitcher would.

 

First off, a correction: Josh Johnson doesn't throw 100.

 

Second: You're seriously underestimating the kid's arsenal because of what you've seen from him as a reliever. Also, comparing starter-to-reliever pitch values from is an exercise in futility due to sampling issues. You need to delve a little deeper to find out about his full arsenal as a starter. Fangraphs pitch values is not enough to accurately describe a young pitcher's arsenal.

 

Look at his splits last year, you claim he doesn't have an out-pitch against them, yet he held them to a .409 (!) OPS last year. Sure, it has to do with sampling as well but god-damn.

 

As a starter, Feliz would come at you with his bread-and-butter FB, CB, an above-average changeup, an average slider and an improving sinker.

 

This is an "agree-to-disagree" situation due to sampling issues, but mark my words, if moved to the rotation the kid will eat the league for breakfast.

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Will617 Draft Eligible

Will617

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First off' date=' a correction: Josh Johnson doesn't throw 100.[/quote']

He definitely does. I remember this because he touched 99 at the All-Star Game, and Joe Buck said something stupid along the lines of "Does our gun even reach 100?" and I thought, "Yes, Joe, yes it does".

 

As a starter' date=' Feliz would come at you with his bread-and-butter FB, CB, an above-average changeup, an average slider and an improving sinker.[/quote']

I wasn't aware that he threw a slider and a sinker, but I've just been going off Fangraphs data, and it's possible he just never threw one in competitive play (although, if he's never thrown one in a game, how do you know they're average and improving? Although I guess it's possible sinkers get counted as fastballs). I also don't really think that his changeup could be above-average; most of the scouting reports that I've seen on Feliz did not indicate his changeup had the potential to go beyond average.

 

The rest of the issues I guess we'll just have to disagree on. But think of this - Daniel Bard is very much a similar pitcher to Feliz, albeit with more movement and worse control (the greater movement translating into stronger GB tendencies). Why isn't there any talk of trying him out in the rotation? Theo would probably believe that a pitchers' best value is in the rotation, given that it's a commonly expressed notion among sabermetricians. I would suspect it has more to do with Bard likely struggling in the rotation given his pitches, rather than believing that a bullpen role is more valuable.

Dipre Worcester Red Sox

Dipre

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He definitely does. I remember this because he touched 99 at the All-Star Game, and Joe Buck said something stupid along the lines of "Does our gun even reach 100?" and I thought, "Yes, Joe, yes it does".

 

 

I wasn't aware that he threw a slider and a sinker, but I've just been going off Fangraphs data, and it's possible he just never threw one in competitive play (although, if he's never thrown one in a game, how do you know they're average and improving? Although I guess it's possible sinkers get counted as fastballs). I also don't really think that his changeup could be above-average; most of the scouting reports that I've seen on Feliz did not indicate his changeup had the potential to go beyond average.

 

The rest of the issues I guess we'll just have to disagree on. But think of this - Daniel Bard is very much a similar pitcher to Feliz, albeit with more movement and worse control (the greater movement translating into stronger GB tendencies). Why isn't there any talk of trying him out in the rotation? Theo would probably believe that a pitchers' best value is in the rotation, given that it's a commonly expressed notion among sabermetricians. I would suspect it has more to do with Bard likely struggling in the rotation given his pitches, rather than believing that a bullpen role is more valuable.

 

Bard had terrible control as a SP, and wasn't cutting it, Feliz was converted to relief out of necessity, not because of a lack of dominance.

 

See, the reason i'm so high on the kid is that, besides following him statistically, i saw him pitch in the summer leagues a couple years ago (as a starter, he threw fastballs, changeups, sliders, the sinker was added last year per an interview done to him by a Dominican reporter, which i confirmed later by reading scouting reports).

 

No one (not Ubaldo, not Liriano, not Rafael Soriano) produced the sound on the catcher's mitt that Feliz did, not to mention he's fierce on the mound, and he goes right after hitters.

He's a bulldog, and he has filthy, disgusting stuff.

 

There are some things you can't know about some players unless you follow them regularly, even if through the TV. That kid is something else, my man.

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