2011 Lineups Thread

[Will617]

I'm a big Kalish fan and would like to see him playing in Boston. However, he's played only 37 games in AAA and has only had 134 AB there. Some more seasoning is not uncalled for. He needs better pitch recognition / selection.

 

He'll be up before long.

 

Kalish definitely needs another year in AAA. He was very promising last year (think he was just about league average after being promoted so quickly), but he hits too many grounders and doesn't walk enough. He seemed to have favorable contact numbers against the MLB average (avoided pitches outside the strike zone, swung at pitches in the strike zone at an average rate) but also had trouble against curves and changeups. I think that all these are fixable problems given time and I think that he's a 20-20 guy going forward.

[Keeper]

Yeah, I have no problem with Kalish playing another year in AAA. He's still developing.

[Will617]

RF Crawford

2B Pedroia

DH Ortiz

3B Youkilis

1B Gonzalez

LF Drew/Cameron

CF Ellsbury

SS Lowrie

C Saltalamacchia

 

I put Crawford in right because I think that maximizes his defensive value, and I think Drew/Cameron are not as well suited to covering space.

Of the first 5 hitters, Crawford is one of the worst at getting on base (which says more about the Sox lineup than it does about him). I like Ortiz batting 3rd against RHP, but he'd definitely be dropped down against lefties; I'm not quite sure where to put him. Cameron would probably rotate between spelling Drew (in which case Crawford may switch back to LF, depending on Cameron's current fielding abilities) or hitting for Ortiz.

Against lefties, I'd consider going this way as the first option

 

LF Ellsbury

2B Pedroia

RF Crawford

3B Youkilis

1B Gonzalez

 

But I don't really know what to do with the last 4 spots, except Salty will be hitting last, and both Drew and Cameron would be playing in the ideal lineup.

[Keeper]

Gonzalez is much better than Ortiz at this point in their careers. No way would I have Ortiz bat 3rd and Gonzalez 5th.

[Will617]

I think that Ortiz still destroys RHP, and that having Gonzalez behind Youkilis opens up a lot of possibilities for hitters later in the lineup to do damage.

[Dipre]

Gonzo's superior in every aspect of offense to Ortiz right now. He should bat cleanup with Pedroia hitting third IMO.

[a700hitter]

Against RH pitching, David Ortiz is as formidable as anyone. If Gonzo is better against righties, the difference is negligible.

[italstallianion]

Against RH pitching' date=' David Ortiz is as formidable as anyone. [/b'] If Gonzo is better against righties, the difference is negligible.

 

 

 

After the first few months of the season perhaps.

[a700hitter]

After the first few months of the season perhaps.

If you take away his bad starts, no one compares to Ortiz against RHPs. Last year, even with the bad start he was among the very best against righties.

[Dipre]

If you take away his bad starts' date=' no one compares to Ortiz against RHPs. Last year, even with the bad start he was among the very best against righties.[/quote']

 

First off, consistency is important. There are a ton of players that "if you take X stretch" had an excellent year, but that is dishonest. If you're serious about fielding the best possible team, you hit Gonzales cleanup, since he is the best power hitter of this team, makes better contact than Ortiz, gets on base more, and hits for more power.

 

There's also the issue of strategic implications during late-game matchups. Other managers will be able to exploit Ortiz' platoon issues, and he may even have to be subbed during certain situations.

 

While Ortiz absolutely murdered righties to a much better tune than Gonzales last year, we have to wait and see how Gonzales' numbers transfer coming from Death Valley to other way-hitter heaven.

[Plumpamania]

David Ortiz vs RHP: .297/.416/.643/1.059

David Ortiz vs LHP: .222/.275/.324/.599

David Ortiz with RISP: .298/.409/.571/.980

 

Adrian Gonzalez vs RHP: .278/.377/.510/.887

Adrian Gonzalez vs LHP: .337/.424/.513/.937

Adrian Gonzalez with RISP: .407/.570/.712/1.282

 

To take into account the ballpark difference, and the fact that Gonzalez lead the league while hitting with RISP, Gonzalez hits 4th, with Pedroia batting 3rd.

[a700hitter]

First off, consistency is important. There are a ton of players that "if you take X stretch" had an excellent year, but that is dishonest. If you're serious about fielding the best possible team, you hit Gonzales cleanup, since he is the best power hitter of this team, makes better contact than Ortiz, gets on base more, and hits for more power.

 

There's also the issue of strategic implications during late-game matchups. Other managers will be able to exploit Ortiz' platoon issues, and he may even have to be subbed during certain situations.

 

While Ortiz absolutely murdered righties to a much better tune than Gonzales last year, we have to wait and see how Gonzales' numbers transfer coming from Death Valley to other way-hitter heaven.

My original statement was that Ortiz is as good as anyone against righties. That includes his bad starts. When it was brought up that he was good against righties only after his poor starts, I replied that without the bad starts, he has been better than anyone against righties. I wasn't being dishonest about anything.

[Dipre]

My original statement was that Ortiz is as good as anyone against righties. That includes his bad starts. When it was brought up that he was good against righties only after his poor starts' date=' I replied that without the bad starts, he has been better than anyone against righties. I wasn't being dishonest about anything.[/quote']

 

The point about the "dishonest" comment is that the situation isn't exclusive to Ortiz, and his slow starts should be taken into account, "if you take out his slow start" is a conditional that shouldn't be applied when measuring his entire body of work last year.

 

That being said, do you hit Ortiz third or cleanup instead of Gonzales? Because there's simply no way to argue against the premise that Gonzales is a superior ballplayer and hitter than Ortiz right now.

[a700hitter]

The point about the "dishonest" comment is that the situation isn't exclusive to Ortiz, and his slow starts should be taken into account, "if you take out his slow start" is a conditional that shouldn't be applied when measuring his entire body of work last year.

 

That being said, do you hit Ortiz third or cleanup instead of Gonzales? Because there's simply no way to argue against the premise that Gonzales is a superior ballplayer and hitter than Ortiz right now.

I would hit AGon 3rd, but I would not go nuts if Tito batted Ortiz 3rd against righties. It's a nice problem to have when you have 2 guys that can wreck the opposing pitcher.

[Dipre]

I would hit AGon 3rd' date=' but I would not go nuts if Tito batted Ortiz 3rd against righties. It's a nice problem to have when you have 2 guys that can wreck the opposing pitcher.[/quote']

 

My ideal lineup against righties:

 

1)Ellsbury

 

2) Crawford

 

3) Pedroia

 

4) Gonzales

 

5) Youkilis

 

6) Ortiz

 

7) Salty

 

8) Drew

 

9) Lowrie/Scutaro

 

Speed/OBP/Power all over the lineup. A genuine wrecking crew.

[Spudboy]

My ideal lineup against righties:

 

1)Ellsbury

 

2) Crawford

 

3) Pedroia

 

4) Gonzales

 

5) Youkilis

 

6) Ortiz

 

7) Salty

 

8) Drew

 

9) Lowrie/Scutaro

 

Speed/OBP/Power all over the lineup. A genuine wrecking crew.

 

Salty is part of this wrecking crew? And at 7?

 

I guess he has to bat somewhere.

[Dipre]

Salty is part of this wrecking crew? And at 7?

 

I guess he has to bat somewhere.

 

Well the way i see it, he can "fake it" against RHP, and it's better to put him in front of Drew, both to avoid having consecutive lefties, and to force pitchers to throw him FB's. Besides, every chain has its weak link.

[Spudboy]

Well the way i see it' date=' he can "fake it" against RHP, and it's better to put him in front of Drew, both to avoid having consecutive lefties, and to force pitchers to throw him FB's. Besides, every chain has its weak link.[/quote']

 

I see.

 

TRADE FOR NAPOLI!!!!!!

[Dipre]

I see.

 

TRADE FOR NAPOLI!!!!!!

 

Either that, or convert either Jed Lowrie or Daniel Nava to Catcher, seeing as they're both incredibly gifted athletes who are not affected by the injury bug and can do no wrong. "Sexy Beasts" if you know what i mean.

[Plumpamania]

Way to give up on Salty.

[Dipre]

Way to give up on Salty.

 

I'd kinda be a hypocrite if i didn't voice my concerns for Salty just like i do for Lowrie.

 

See, the thing is that i'm a realist, and that pisses people (not directed at you) who see things through rosey-colored glasses.

 

I always think about what's more productive for the team, not what player i have a boner for or what player i consider "sexy" (something i find wrong on many levels by the way).

 

On Salty's case, just like Lowrie, he's yet to produce a full season of health or offensive consistency, therefore, there is reason for concern, and there is a need to ease the guy into the role that he's expected to fulfill.

[a700hitter]

Salty could be a major bust. We have to acknowledge that there is a good risk of that happening.

[Palodios]

We also have to realize that Salty really hasn't shown any glimpse of anything above average play in the majors-- and that the FO knows that. Considering how little they paid for him in prospects, I see him as a stepping stone to Exposito, Wagner, Lavarnway, or whoever, while the rest of the offseason carries the C spot. If he hits well, great. If he doesn't, its not the end of the world, he's just another mediocre catcher, they're a dime a dozen.

[Dipre]

....just like Lowrie. But he gets a pass for being a "sexy beast" and lighting the world on fire on a SSS.

 

Neither is a sure thing, and they should both be treated accordingly.

[Palodios]

Saltamacchia-- injury problems, defense is bottom tier, has never hit well in the majors, has never gotten a sickness or disease from a woman.

 

Lowrie-- injury problems, defense is above average, has hit well in majors every time he's been healthy, got mono from some smoking hot chick named Starlight in Club Ultra in Providence.

[Keeper]

I like Lowrie's chances a lot more than I like Salty's, but it is true that neither one of them is a sure thing.

[example1]

A700, I appreciate your support for Ortiz but I think when we've seen Gonzalez for a year or two there will be no doubt why Gonzalez is the better hitter.

 

Gonzalez should be the type of hitter who has very few holes, who controls ABs and who drives the ball consistently to all fields. Ortiz has obvious holes and can't hit lefties. In his best moments he and Gonzalez might be indecipherable, but Gonzalez will be that way much more consistently moving forward.

 

I still like

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

...but I can see switching Lowrie and Salty so the catcher isn't turning over the lineup.

[Dojji]

Believe me, if I thought we could get Napoli, defense and durability issues and all, I'd go for it. Not blind to the downside, but it's a risk worth taking anyway because the upside is a serious slugging catcher that can hit 20-25 HR's in 100 games played and provide platoon support for a couple other positions where we have LHH (while you aren't going to platoon Gonzalez, Ortiz is another question). Sometimes the reward is worth the risk.

 

A Napoli-Salty platoon would have been fairly nice. Hard to blame the Angels for not being approachable on the guy though. Again, this guy could have provided a RHH platoon C/1B/DH bat with serious pop that would have come into a lineup starved for RHH. What exactly is the problem people have with this? It fills several of our major needs at once.

[Dipre]

Newsflash: Mike Napoli can hit, but he sucks ass as catcher to the point where they play Jeff Mathis ahead of him.

 

However, had they not gotten Gonzales he may have been a passable solution playing part-time DH and 1B, because his value is in his stick.

[Dojji]

Because what we have as catcher is defensive wizardry personified. At least Napoli can definitely hit.