Anti Fantasy Round 2: Y228 v YH213

[TheKilo]

Vote for the winner of Y228'v YH213 starting Friday at 8:00am

[YanksHater213]

I'm going to throw the match ups position by position up here with my players in bold, then go through and analyze the matchup so people will pick me.

 

QB: Eli Manning, Colt McCoy vs. Aaron Rodgers, Matt Cassell

HB: Shonn Greene, LeRon McClain, Darren Sproles vs. Ahmad Bradshaw, Reggie Bush, Leon Washington

WR: Michael Crabtree, Mike Sims-Walker, Robert Meachem, Kevin Walter, Julian Edelman vs. Santonio Holmes, Hakeem Nicks, Eddie Royal, Demaryus Thomas

TE: Tony Moeaki vs. Chris Cooley

OL: Russell Okung, Davin Joseph, Jeff Faine, Kris Dielman, Jason Peters vs. Ryan Harris, Chris Kuper, Jason Brown, Justin Smiley, Marcus McNeill

DE: Cullen Jenkins, Robert Geathers vs. Marcus Spears, Mike Wright

DT: Vince Wilfork vs. Jay Ratliff

OLB: Tamba Hali, Manny Lawson vs. DeMarcus Ware, James Harrison

ILB: Barrett Ruud, AJ Hawk vs. Curtis Lofton, Bradie James

CB: Brandon Flowers, Aqib Talib vs. Jonathon Joseph, Leon Hall

S: Taylor Mays, Troy Polamalu vs. Antrel Rolle, Roman Harper, Kenny Phillips

K: Matt Prater vs. Neil Rackers

P: Darren Colquitt vs. Tom Morestead

Coach Bill Belichick vs. Tom Coughlin

[yankees228]

I will also post my 'game-plan' in due time (have some other things to take care of first). In a match-up this closely contested, I really do recommend that everyone reads what both YH and I have to say, because this likely comes down to who utilizes their personnel better.

 

This should definitely be a fun match-up. Good luck YH.

[YanksHater213]

When YH213 runs: I think my team will have an advantage here because of the versatility of my backfield. While Y228 has one of the best linebacking cores, if not the best in the league, I feel that my offensive line is good enough to make holes for my guys to get to the second level, where I don't feel his defense is very good in the run game. Ware and Harrison are pass rushing linebackers, and my strengths on my offensive line is to the outside (especially to the left). Sproles is my 3rd and long "Kevin Faulk" type of back, and I think he will see a lot of success running draw plays (and screens) when Y228 blitzes. I have a power back in McClain who will be able to not only lead block for Greene, but is a very good back in his own right and has been know to pick up good yardage. I think my running game is tailor-made to run wild on this defense, especially when they decide to blitz. Advantage YH213

 

When Y228 runs: While Y228 has a list of talented backs, none of them have ever been able to prove that they're a full time back in the NFL yet. Ruud and AJ Hawk are two of the best run stopping middle linebackers in the NFL with their speed and athleticism. Bradshaw and Bush won't be able to get to the outside, especially with a good guy like Manny Lawson setting the edge. I also probably have most one of the sure tacklers in the NFL in Polamalu back there to help deal with the run. While Y228 has a great line, I don't think they'll be able to provide enough holes inside to keep my defense honest. I'll be able to focus on the outside runs and keep the middle clogged up with Wilfork. Advantage YH213

 

When YH213 passes: Super Bowl winning QB Eli Manning should have a tough time here. Although I have the running game to keep Y228's defense honest, his blitzing is going to prove way too much for my squad to handle here, so I will have to go to short/medium routes and screen passes out of the backfield and to my wide receivers. Where you see Manning get in trouble is when he tries to force the ball where he cannot, but Belichick has the playbook to make Manning successful against this blitzing defense. Crabtree, Sims-Walker, and Moeaki are all bigger, possession type targets who will get their yards with medium timing routes on the sidelines, while I have the smaller guys like Walter and Edelman to go across the middle and hit the under checkdown type of routes. While Y228 has a solid secondary, I don't think it's going to be enough to cover my passing attack with the way I plan to play offense. Heavy running, with quick passes and play action is really going to keep them honest and keep them off of my receivers enough to be successful here. Advantage YH213

 

When Y228 passes: Rodgers is a stud, he's got four very talented receivers to throw to. Although I feel I have a very talented secondary who should be able to key in on the pass because of a weaker running game from Y228, I think his talent outweighs mine. Since I expect them to be a pass heavy team, I will have to rely on Hali getting to the quarterback. In keeping their run game in check, I will have to focus on the pass a lot. Flowers and Talib are really talented, but using Polamalu as my roamer/playmaker, I expect to keep him in the box a lot to keep their running game in check and keep the big and quick Cooley underwraps. If I can get to Rodgers I can have success here, but if I can't he's going to pick my defense apart at the second level. Advantage Y228

 

Special Teams: Both teams have good punters and kickers, so I can see it being a wash there, but I think where I excel is my versatility in the return game. Having Sproles, Meachem, and Edelman gives me three different guys I can use to not only return kicks and punts, but to make plays. But, Y228 has both Washington, who has proven a viable kick returner, and Bush, a great punt returner, he can make those plays in return as well. Wash

 

Overall, I think my team will win this because of one thing; coaching and scheming. Although I think many people would argue that Y228's team has more talent than mine, I think I have the perfect range of guys to make Belichick's system works. I have a bunch of different types of players on offense and I expect to do a good job in beating Y228's blitz with my draw plays and quick hits. I think my defense is good enough to not allow too many points in this matchup.

 

My Winner: YH213 - 24, Y228 - 21

[ORS]

I think you guys are about a wash at OL, but I like y228's defensive front 7 and RB corps better than YH213's, so I think the running game goes to y228. Yes, Wilfork is an immovable object in the middle, but I think Harrison and Ware are being underrated against the run in that analysis. Their speed, which is what makes them great pass rushers, also allows them to shut down outside running, which you won't want to do with the RB group anyway, and collapse on between the tackle runs.

 

Really, though, it's all about Shonn Greene vs Ahmad Bradshaw, IMO. Bradshaw runs harder between the tackles than any smallish guy I've seen in quite some time. That he hasn't been a feature back is more a function of Brandon Jacobs than it is of his talent.

[yankees228]

I think you guys are about a wash at OL, but I like y228's defensive front 7 and RB corps better than YH213's, so I think the running game goes to y228. Yes, Wilfork is an immovable object in the middle, but I think Harrison and Ware are being underrated against the run in that analysis. Their speed, which is what makes them great pass rushers, also allows them to shut down outside running, which you won't want to do with the RB group anyway, and collapse on between the tackle runs.

 

Really, though, it's all about Shonn Greene vs Ahmad Bradshaw, IMO. Bradshaw runs harder between the tackles than any smallish guy I've seen in quite some time. That he hasn't been a feature back is more a function of Brandon Jacobs than it is of his talent.

 

You should have participated in this ORS, you seem to know football as well as anyone on the board.

 

Anyway, my game-plan/analysis is forthcoming.

[yankees228]

YH already posted the rosters, so I'll go right into my strategy. This is long, but I hope everybody takes the time to read this, as it's key in this match-up.

 

My Defense vs. YH213's Offense

 

I like this match-up, mainly because, from having watched basically every snap Eli has taken his entire career, I know the guy pretty well. His major strengths come from his intelligence, where his pre-snap reads, audibles, and blitz protection calls are fantastic. He also is very successful with intermediate routes. At the same time, his main weaknesses are that he makes poor decisions with pressure coming up the middle, often throwing off his back foot, and he throws a very poor deep ball. I'll look to take advantage of his weaknesses, and combat his strengths.

 

Because of his inability to throw the ball down the field, and because of the lack of time that my defense will give him in the pocket, I'll be able to load the box (sometimes with as many as eight guys), which should really help me against the run. Roman Harper and Antrel Rolle are two safeties that are adept at playing up in the box, so they fit right in with this scheme. I think Harrison and Ware will do a good job of holding containment on the edge, and Ratliff, along with my ILBs, should be able to clog the middle on runs between the tackles.

 

On passing downs, in order to counter Eli's pre-snap reads, my defense will show him various different looks. While we'll still line up in a classic 3-4 at times, he'll see a lot of the 'walk-around defense', with some, if not all of my down linemen up in motorcycle stances. This should throw off his blitz protections, making it extremely difficult to give blockers their assignments. Also, along with my classic edge rush, many of my players, including Harrison, Ware, Lofton, Rolle, and Harper, will be swung around to the middle of the field at times, and will blitz the A and B gaps. Along with Ratliff, these 'between the tackle' blitz packages should be able to dominate the pocket, and even when they don't get home, they'll be able to obstruct Eli's vision and force him to throw without stepping up, a bad habit that he often falls into. My defense will also show a great deal of zone blitzes, where, at any time, players such as Harrison, Wright, Spears, James, and Lofton may drop into coverage, clogging up the short and intermediate routes, and also helping counter the screen game.

 

My Offense vs. YH213's Defense

 

In order to counter YH's strong pass rush, I'll go to a great deal of spread packages and formations. These will include many one running back and empty backfield sets. I'll almost always have three WRs on the field, sometimes four, and Cooley also will be split off the line at times. Rodgers should have a great deal of success picking apart the secondary on short and intermediate routes, working the ball to all his options on stop routes, crossing routes, fade-stops, out routes, and quick slants. Also, if Polamalu is pulled up into the box, I think Cooley could be very successful running straight down the seam, and finding the soft stop in the coverage. Additionally, I think I'll be able to get some big plays against Talib, who tends to be very aggressive against short routes, and can be susceptible to double moves, which he'll see at times from Nicks and Holmes. Rodgers will also be focused on always accounting for a possible Polamalu blitz on his pre-snap reads, ready to find the hot receiver if necessary.

 

So with much focus on my passing game, I like my chances to get some plays on the ground out of passing sets, especially on draw plays and half back counters. Hali and Lawson are excellent OLBs, but I think there will be times when they'll be too aggressive, and it will cost them their containment on the outside. If that happens, the speed of Bradshaw and Bush will make them pay. I also like my chances of getting the ball to Bush in space, especially if YH blitzes, on screen plays and half back circle routes.

 

Special Teams

 

As YH said, the special teams are pretty much a wash in this match-up. Against his dangerous returners Rackers will show a variety of different kickoffs, ranging from deep kicks to squib kicks to pop-up kicks. I also trust Morestead to angle his punts towards the sidelines, limiting YH's punt return game. On the other end, hopefully Washington, Bush, and Royal can get a big return or two. I also trust Rackers when it comes to field goals.

 

I won't offer a prediction, as that's up to you guys, but I obviously like my game-plan and personnel here.

[YanksHater213]

In your analysis of my O vs. your D, I'd just like to set a few things straight. You said Manning cannot throw the ball deep very well, I think most people would agree on that - I do. I don't really intend on him being the guy that's going to throw the ball 30-40 yards downfield. He'll take his shots when he can when he's got Crabtree or Meachem in one on one, but other than that it's going to be more of a ball control/checkdown offense, which I think will be very successful against your aggressive defense. I think I'll be able to eat up on the slants, crossing routes, hooks, screens, and hitches in order to beat your blitz.

 

But my big plays are going to be coming from behind the line of scrimmage and within 0-7 yards of the line of scrimmage. My big play guys (Sproles, Edelman, Meachem) are all quick and slippery, and I think I can generate a lot of big plays after catches from these guys with their speed, explosiveness and slipperiness.

[yankees228]

In your analysis of my O vs. your D, I'd just like to set a few things straight. You said Manning cannot throw the ball deep very well, I think most people would agree on that - I do. I don't really intend on him being the guy that's going to throw the ball 30-40 yards downfield. He'll take his shots when he can when he's got Crabtree or Meachem in one on one, but other than that it's going to be more of a ball control/checkdown offense, which I think will be very successful against your aggressive defense. I think I'll be able to eat up on the slants, crossing routes, hooks, screens, and hitches in order to beat your blitz.

 

But my big plays are going to be coming from behind the line of scrimmage and within 0-7 yards of the line of scrimmage. My big play guys (Sproles, Edelman, Meachem) are all quick and slippery, and I think I can generate a lot of big plays after catches from these guys with their speed, explosiveness and slipperiness.

 

On the first point, right, I understand that. The reason I brought it up is just because it allows me to stack the box at times, without fear of being beat down the field. It's important because it allows me to gear my defense against your running game and short passing game. By condensing your offense to only a small part of the field, I expect to be very successful within that area.

 

As for the other points, I've obviously covered how I'm going to try to stop these things in my initial analysis, and no matter whether I'm right or wrong, it would seem kind of redundant to continue rehashing the same points over and over again. You have an excellent team, and the voting should be very interesting.

 

On that note, while I understand this would probably have to be OK'd by TK (or maybe Ital), with YH and I having already posted our thoughts, I would be OK with opening up our match-up to the voting.

[YanksHater213]

I'd be fine with it too, as I really don't think it'd be worth it to go back and forth for the next 2 days

 

Best of luck to you sir.

[yankees228]

I'd be fine with it too, as I really don't think it'd be worth it to go back and forth for the next 2 days

 

Best of luck to you sir.

 

Haha yup. While that would be fun, it's clear that we both know our stuff, and going back and forth over the same points would you be unnecessary and repetitive.

 

Good luck to you as well.

[YanksHater213]

Also, I want this to start now because I want people to have more time to vote for this. I put too much time into making sure I picked on time and writing up an explanation as to why my team would win this matchup that I don't want it done by people who are rushed.

[yankees228]

Agreed there as well. This is a competitive match-up, and voters should take their time before casting their choices (and not just for this match-up, but also for the other three).

[Youker20]

should we be taking into consideration how many roughing the passers Harrison would get called for if this was a real life match up?

[italstallianion]

should we be taking into consideration how many roughing the passers Harrison would get called for if this was a real life match up?

 

 

 

It'll just be counteracted by all of YH's players that Harrison injures.

[TheKilo]

If both parties agree to it; voting can begin now.

[italstallianion]

I'm taking my time and sifting through all of this before I vote, so I probably won't cast my vote until tomorrow. A lot of the top teams spent A LOT of time on this and it wouldn't do them justice to cast a vote quickly.

[yankees228]

That's fair. I'm very curious to see how other people view this match-up. Obviously I like my team a lot, but I think YH got a raw deal in the power rankings.

[TheKilo]

This was my 1-2 in my power rankings, both teams are phenomenal and in all honesty are very alike in a lot of ways. I like Y228's quarterbacks but like YH's running backs better. I like Y228's wideouts but I like YH's o-line better. I love Y228's front seven but I like YH's secondary better. I've got to say as well, both teams laid out their gamelplan in very detailed and articulate fashion.

 

I think that if we look at talent and talent alone, I'd say Y228's team would be favored by 2-3 points on a neutral field. What that doesn't account for is two things - coaching, as YH mentioned, and the way a QB handles a big game. Belichick is the best in the game, and gives YH a clear advantage when it comes to game planning and scheming. Also, Manning has a Super Bowl MVP and I can count the big games Rodgers has won on one hand.

 

In the end though, how much is that really worth? Y228 has a built in advantage of knowing what Eli's weaknesses are and I feel in this matchup has the personnel to exploit them. There's more certainty with Y228's team. If were talking pure upside, I probably lean YH but there is always a chance that some of his youg guys flame out.

 

I had Y228 #1 for a reason. It's a shame this isn't the finals because I really think these are the top two teams in this thing (excluding mine).

 

Y228 28, YH213 27

[italstallianion]

Much like the Coco/Divinity first round matchup, I see this one being the closest (and toughest) second round matchup, with Jbay vs. WhiskeyBreath being the other close 2nd round matchup.

 

I do think that it's a shame to see great teams face this early, but in my opinion, there were 5-6 teams that could make realistic arguments as to why they are the best team in the league, and with only 4 semifinal spots available, that meant that 1-2 teams were going to only make it this far.

 

That said, these 2 teams would be in my top 5-6 teams that could realistically have a shot at being a top team. And I agree that Y228 has a better QB, YH's has the better RB's, Y228 has the better WR's, YH has the better O-line, Y228 has the better front 7, and that YH has the better secondary. I think that Y228 has a more talented team, and by a large enough margin to give him the win, EXCEPT that YH has one of the only coaches that I think would give his team points.

 

The other special teams I'd give a wash, the kickers career FG% is different by .01% in favour of Y228, which I'm not factoring in at all. I like both kick returners, I think that Sproles gives YH more versatility, but that he loses points on Edelman as a bench player which I think could have been used more wisely. I like Y228's bench better overall, but again, that has a minimal effect on the game.

 

For me, my deciding factor was that of all the differences between spots, only one difference wasn't close, and that was the QB's, which is one of the more important positions. I feel that Rodgers is a much better QB than Eli Manning, and that Rodgers ability to run with the ball as well as making more accurate (and often deep) throws will be a big advantage over everything else.

 

The way I see it, I think that both defenses are VERY good. I think that of all of the teams that did a 3-4 defense, YH and Y228 are 2 of the only teams to do it correctly. I think most teams that did 3-4 defenses didn't do it right (Coco and Ytrb are 2 examples that come to mind) and played people out of position. I'm not a big fan of the 3-4, but if one does choose it, it HAS to be done right, so I give you guys both props for building good 3-4 defenses. I think that Kilo and Jbay are the only other 2 to do it right.

 

With both defenses being very good, I think that it's going to come down to offenses. While neither team has the best offense in the league, I think that Y228's offense is better than YH's and that it's going to give him the victory in a low scoring game. I don't see YH's offense scoring many points off of Y228's defense (in all fairness, I only think that very few offenses can score decent points off of either defenses)

 

I don't think that YH's advantages (though numerous) are enough to counterbalance Y228's advantages in QB and front 7, so if I had to predict a score, I'd go with:

 

Y228: 14

YH: 10

 

 

Again, this was NOT an easy decision, and both of these teams deserve a shot at the final four. The way I saw it, there were 4 teams at the top, and 2-3 teams slightly behind, but if facing the right matchups, could have a shot at the top. I had put Y228 as one of the top 4 teams, and I had put YH as one of the 2-3 teams off of the top. This is definitely the closest matchup of the 2nd round.

[YanksHater213]

YOU GUYS SUCK STOP SCREWING ME OUT OF THIS!!!!!

 

[italstallianion]

YOU GUYS SUCK STOP SCREWING ME OUT OF THIS!!!!!

 

 

 

 

In all fairness, I do understand your frustration because this had the makings of a final four matchup. I think you got screwed more in the power rankings than you did in this particular matchup. I gave you credit where it was due though. I wasn't a big fan of your NBA team, but I liked your team here. It's just that a few other people also have really good teams.

[YanksHater213]

I really don't care, I was being facetious.

 

Tough matchup against a team just as good...what can ya do?

[italstallianion]

I really don't care, I was being facetious.

 

Tough matchup against a team just as good...what can ya do?

 

 

Come back and kick everyone's a** in the baseball redraft? That one should be a dog fight because I think that there are even more people on this site that know a lot about baseball than there are that know a lot about football. Besides, you, Kilo, Coco, Y228, and many others weren't in the last baseball redraft.

[Youker20]

this is an very hard match up to vote in. both people drafted very good teams. I think both teams have good game plans as well, I like what yh213 is saying about using bellichek's system, but i dont think m=Manning is nearly as good as Brady who is maybe the best qb in the nfl, so while he'll still have success with dumpoffs/screens and those things pats excel on, I dont think it would be enough to win the game by it self.. as y288 has a very good defense led by amazing pass rushers Harrison and Ware and Harrison is actually one of best players in the run game.. however, when you add in that yh213 has an absolutely amazing, underrated defense, i think that wins the game. i dont think y288 will have much success running the ball, he has 2 unproven backs who haven't shown they can carry load at all and bradshaw who is a fumbling machine, so I think y228 will be forced to pass a lot and thats not good as yh213 has one of best secondares in this whole thing. I think yh213 wins in a close game: 24-21

[yankees228]

I was against drafting coaches, and I really don't think they should play a role in this. It's too easy to say, 'well, Belichick (or another good coach) will figure out a way to win that game'. Each of us should be in charge of coming up with ways to utilize their personnel in each match-up, and with that already happening, what's the role of the coach? I think we should be judged on the players we drafted, and the schemes we came up with. Not some hypothetical scheme that a coach would apply to our teams.

 

But I should have tried to articulate this point earlier, and that's my fault. C'est la vie.

 

Oh, and thanks for putting in the time to really look at this match-up and give such lengthy and reasonable breakdowns (and thanks to TK for putting me number one in the power rankings lol).

[italstallianion]

For the record Y228, I had you up there too. I figured the top 4 teams in this thing were (in no order) your team, Kilo, WB, and my team, with Jbay, and YH slightly behind the top pack. I think I put you 2nd in the rankings, but I'm not exactly sure.

[yankees228]

For the record Y228' date=' I had you up there too. I figured the top 4 teams in this thing were (in no order) your team, Kilo, WB, and my team, with Jbay, YH, and Ytrb slightly behind the top pack. I think I put you 2nd in the rankings, but I'm not exactly sure.[/quote']

 

Oh absolutely, I definitely appreciate that as well. It's just that the 'number one' part jumped out at me, and I just figured I'd mention it.

 

Anyway, I know it doesn't matter at this point, but what are your thoughts on the coaches thing?

[italstallianion]

Oh absolutely, I definitely appreciate that as well. It's just that the 'number one' part jumped out at me, and I just figured I'd mention it.

 

Anyway, I know it doesn't matter at this point, but what are your thoughts on the coaches thing?

 

 

 

To be honest, I simply thought it was a way to add an extra pick (because of the people who wanted backup QB's) so that the number of rounds was even. I believe it was my original idea to have coaches anyway. I only really factored it in if it was a top coach, or if the coach worked with a lot of the players on the particular team. I never used it as a deciding factor, in the power rankings over the voting.

 

That said, as some of these matchups get closer and closer, that is something that would stick out in a close game, in addition to field position (punters and returners) as well as field goal kickers.

[yankees228]

To be honest, I simply thought it was a way to add an extra pick (because of the people who wanted backup QB's) so that the number of rounds was even. I believe it was my original idea to have coaches anyway. I only really factored it in if it was a top coach, or if the coach worked with a lot of the players on the particular team. I never used it as a deciding factor, in the power rankings over the voting.

 

That said, as some of these matchups get closer and closer, that is something that would stick out in a close game, in addition to field position (punters and returners) as well as field goal kickers.

 

Fair enough, but in these close games, don't you think we should be responsible for coming up with our own schemes (and if so, what role does the coach really play)?