The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Dojji]

Or just cut the middle man and DH Jeter

[example1]

I disagree with all these people about money. When you're building a Deathstar' date=' you can't try to scimp on your superlaser.[/quote']

 

Or Darth Vader's cape.

 

Sorry Vader, we just don't have enough for that top 'O the line cape you like this year... you know, with the Death Star and all...

[example1]

Back to the Red Sox offseason...

 

Let's say the FO is secretly planning on making a huge splash this offseason. If Justin Upton is still on the table then it seems the biggest splash this team could make would be trading for Upton and signing Werth or Crawford.

 

It may be an incentive to use Ellsbury as a trade chip because those two FAs are available and probably better than any upcoming OF options so they can strike while the iron is hot. Ellsbury is probably somewhat more coveted as a recognizable name, and may allow the Sox to keep some of their other good prospect options in the process. I really like Ellsbury, but projecting forward I think this team can replace his production this offseason and have a ridiculous lineup for 2011 and beyond.

 

My dream offseason would be trading some package around Ellsbury for Upton, and then signing Carl Crawford. All of this is prefaced by my assumption that the team plans to sign Adrian Gonzalez for 2012 so trading for him seems less lucritive than a controlled guy like Upton.

 

It is entirely within this team's grasp to add Crawford, Upton and Gonzalez within the next 12 months and completely redefine the core of this team. I really hope they go for it.

[a700hitter]

Back to the Red Sox offseason...

 

Let's say the FO is secretly planning on making a huge splash this offseason. If Justin Upton is still on the table then it seems the biggest splash this team could make would be trading for Upton and signing Werth or Crawford.

 

It may be an incentive to use Ellsbury as a trade chip because those two FAs are available and probably better than any upcoming OF options so they can strike while the iron is hot. Ellsbury is probably somewhat more coveted as a recognizable name, and may allow the Sox to keep some of their other good prospect options in the process. I really like Ellsbury, but projecting forward I think this team can replace his production this offseason and have a ridiculous lineup for 2011 and beyond.

 

My dream offseason would be trading some package around Ellsbury for Upton, and then signing Carl Crawford. All of this is prefaced by my assumption that the team plans to sign Adrian Gonzalez for 2012 so trading for him seems less lucritive than a controlled guy like Upton.

 

It is entirely within this team's grasp to add Crawford, Upton and Gonzalez within the next 12 months and completely redefine the core of this team. I really hope they go for it.

I could live with that. Add a couple of bullpen pieces and the team would be the beast of the east.

[example1]

I could live with that. Add a couple of bullpen pieces and the team would be the beast of the east.

 

That's what I want for them.

 

I feel like the Yankees have more or less solidified themselves for the next few years. This offseason is an opportunity for the Sox to improve without getting into too many bidding wars with the Yankees. I'm sure the Yankees would like a guy like Upton, but the Sox are more likely to go all out for him. Same with Crawford/Werth, and Gonzalez (probably in 2012). I say get all 3 of them and use the farm to build around them and save money.

[Palodios]

Crawford, Upton, Gonzalez? That sounds a tad optimistic.

[a700hitter]

Crawford' date=' Upton, Gonzalez? That sounds a tad optimistic.[/quote']Sounds like fun.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's what I want for them.

 

I feel like the Yankees have more or less solidified themselves for the next few years. This offseason is an opportunity for the Sox to improve without getting into too many bidding wars with the Yankees. I'm sure the Yankees would like a guy like Upton, but the Sox are more likely to go all out for him. Same with Crawford/Werth, and Gonzalez (probably in 2012). I say get all 3 of them and use the farm to build around them and save money.

 

The Yankees would love to have him, but dont really need him. We already have a pretty young OF that works pretty well. So giving up a prospect load to maybe improve our OF is not a good venture when our rotation needs the biggest boost

[jacksonianmarch]

I could live with that. Add a couple of bullpen pieces and the team would be the beast of the east.

 

Assuming that any deal for AdGon would include a $20 mil per yr extension, then that would be a massive increase in payroll.

[example1]

I was saying Adrian Gonzalez when he's a FA, at which point Ortiz and Drew will be off the books. Crawford easily fits into this year's cap, and Upton wouldn't be that significant of an increase if acquired this season (AAV less than Mike Lowell's 2010 salary).

 

I actually think it isn't a huge increase in salary if they use Lowrie and Scutaro and then Lowrie and Iglesias on the left side of the infield.

 

Yes, it is optimistic, but entirely possible. The hardest part is getting Upton, but if that happens then signing one of the OFs seems possible (Werth seems easier than Crawford) and nobody disputes that the Sox can legitimately sign Gonzalez in 2012.

[Station 13]

So does Bard get super 2 after 2011? He will have 2 year 148 days of service.

[BSN07]

Back to the Red Sox offseason...

 

Let's say the FO is secretly planning on making a huge splash this offseason. If Justin Upton is still on the table then it seems the biggest splash this team could make would be trading for Upton and signing Werth or Crawford.

 

It may be an incentive to use Ellsbury as a trade chip because those two FAs are available and probably better than any upcoming OF options so they can strike while the iron is hot. Ellsbury is probably somewhat more coveted as a recognizable name, and may allow the Sox to keep some of their other good prospect options in the process. I really like Ellsbury, but projecting forward I think this team can replace his production this offseason and have a ridiculous lineup for 2011 and beyond.

 

My dream offseason would be trading some package around Ellsbury for Upton, and then signing Carl Crawford. All of this is prefaced by my assumption that the team plans to sign Adrian Gonzalez for 2012 so trading for him seems less lucritive than a controlled guy like Upton.

 

It is entirely within this team's grasp to add Crawford, Upton and Gonzalez within the next 12 months and completely redefine the core of this team. I really hope they go for it.

 

I like the looks of that. But I read somewhere(if you want I will search for the article) the reason they were going after Upton is because they didn't want to give Crawford or Werth the 100M contract they are seeking. But in the end if they want to they should be able to afford it. And with Ortiz(12.5M), Drew(15M), and Papelbon(11M(estimate)) coming off the books, they will have plenty of money to budget Agon in. Which is the plan I believe. It's why I have been saying there is no chance Beltre comes back long term at 3B. That and the offers he is getting. Billy Beane seems to have a man crush on him. And also one of the reasons they me be reluctant to go more then 3-4 years for V-Mart if they think he's going to have to play 1B or DH.

 

I think they will be "Yankee aggressive" in the Agon negotiations. To what extent I'm not sure, but I'm estimating a 6/120M to 7/180M offer from the Sox. And I don't know how many other teams could match that. Possibly LAA, but not if they drop 100M+ on Crawford this off season. It's going to be an interesting 12 months for the Red Sox. And that's really how you have to look at it. And no get to frantic if they don't make unnecessary moves right now.

[Palodios]

I'm still considering what they said about this season-- one major trade and one major signing. Despite everything we've been saying, its starting to look like they have quite a few trade chips right now.

[BSN07]

I'm still considering what they said about this season-- one major trade and one major signing. Despite everything we've been saying' date=' its starting to look like they have quite a few trade chips right now.[/quote']

 

They have a lot of chips right now because they saved them all at the deadline instead of shipping 2-3 out for a RP that wasn't going to help. I'm hoping they pull off at least one really nice trade this winter.

[SoxSport]

With respect to Beltre, it's still an open field. Only the Red Sox know what they will offer, and that will depend on the other options as they develop. They can go in a few directions, and those need some time. Beltre will be around for awhlie. Even if the As offer is real, I doubt he wants to play for that team. Not a winner, and not a hitters park.

 

He is more likely to go with the Angels, but how much will they offer? He has to also realize that Fenway is tailor made for him. It will depend on if he prefers the West coast over a good situation for him in Boston. We'll see . It's still early. The options will play out until mid December. My hunch the 3rd baseman next year will be Lowrie.

 

Whatever the Sox do, I hope they address the holes left if they don't re-sign Beltre or Vmart. It isn't just a RHd bat they need. It's a catcher and a 3rd baseman. Saying Salty is their catcher next year is a stretch. Lowrie has the talent, but his durability is questionable.

[BSN07]

With respect to Beltre, it's still an open field. Only the Red Sox know what they will offer, and that will depend on the other options as they develop. They can go in a few directions, and those need some time. Beltre will be around for awhlie. Even if the As offer is real, I doubt he wants to play for that team. Not a winner, and not a hitters park.

 

He is more likely to go with the Angels, but how much will they offer? He has to also realize that Fenway is tailor made for him. It will depend on if he prefers the West coast over a good situation for him in Boston. We'll see . It's still early. The options will play out until mid December. My hunch the 3rd baseman next year will be Lowrie.

 

Whatever the Sox do, I hope they address the holes left if they don't re-sign Beltre or Vmart. It isn't just a RHd bat they need. It's a catcher and a 3rd baseman. Saying Salty is their catcher next year is a stretch. Lowrie has the talent, but his durability is questionable.

 

HE'S NOT COMING BACK TO BOSTON!() It would prevent them from getting Agon, and that would be dumb. The Sox put a limit of 4/52M on Beltre. That offer has already been trumped by one team, and I'm sure there will be other offers. Beltre was a one year fling. It was all it was meant to be.

[Dojji]

It would prevent them from getting Agon' date=' and that would be dumb. [/quote']

 

Not really. Ortiz walks at the end of the year, you could rotate all of Youks, Beltre and Adgon through the 1B/3B/DH slots and give yourself a heck of a corner infield combination.

[Palodios]

So you have two GGs, and a quality 1B, and one of them is being paid to DH? The FO won't waste that kind of money when strong hitting DHs grow on trees.

[BSN07]

So you have two GGs' date=' and a quality 1B, and one of them is being paid to DH? The FO won't waste that kind of money when strong hitting DHs grow on trees.[/quote']

 

Logic runs strong with this one(my best Dipre impression )

 

That and I don't believe Beltre will be taking a discount to stay in Boston. Which is exactly what he would be doing if he excepted their 4/52M offer. I'd rather have Martinez. Although I think it's going to be hard to keep him in a Red Sox uniform.

[SoxSport]

Beltre's problem is his two best years--by far--have been contract years. And you wonder if he can do it back to back. With Bora$$, you commit to big bucks, long years. I would not be unhappy if Lowrie got the 3rd base job, though his durability is one big question.

[BSN07]

Beltre's problem is his two best years--by far--have been contract years. And you wonder if he can do it back to back. With Bora$$' date=' you commit to big bucks, long years. I would not be unhappy if Lowrie got the 3rd base job, though his durability is one big question.[/quote']

 

I don't mind the thought of Lowrie playing 3B if it comes to it. But he's probably starting at SS next season. From what I have read it looks as though Theo and Co. are shopping Scutaro for BP help. And it's rumored their getting a good amount of interest.

 

I think it's more likely we see Lowrie at SS, Youk at 3B and Derek Lee at 1B in 2011.

[a700hitter]

I don't mind the thought of Lowrie playing 3B if it comes to it. But he's probably starting at SS next season. From what I have read it looks as though Theo and Co. are shopping Scutaro for BP help. And it's rumored their getting a good amount of interest.

 

I think it's more likely we see Lowrie at SS, Youk at 3B and Derek Lee at 1B in 2011.

If the plan is for Lowrie to start at SS, they had better get a very good back up. The guy's durability is questionable. Until he is healthy for an entire season, I don't think they can give him a starting position. I don't see the Sox trading Scutaro and handing the job to Lowrie at the start of 2011.

[Dojji]

So you have two GGs' date=' and a quality 1B, and one of them is being paid to DH? The FO won't waste that kind of money when strong hitting DHs grow on trees.[/quote']

 

Oh so they do, huh? You do realize that Adam Dunn is the only one swinging from the vine just now -- and he wants to play D.

 

I reject the idea that simply because it doesn't maximize the value of the individual player the FO won't do it, as long as getting the bat into the lineup is the best thing for the team. That isn't logical. That's the antithesis of logical.

[BSN07]

If the plan is for Lowrie to start at SS' date=' they had better get a very good back up. The guy's durability is questionable. Until he is healthy for an entire season, I don't think they can give him a starting position. I don't see the Sox trading Scutaro and handing the job to Lowrie at the start of 2011.[/quote']

 

I would wager the fall back plan would be Iglesias. He's on a major league contract, and is probably one year away from the ML's anyway. But his defense is good enough right now that they could bump him up sooner if Lowrie can't handle every day duties.

[a700hitter]

Oh so they do, huh? You do realize that Adam Dunn is the only one swinging from the vine just now -- and he wants to play D.

 

I reject the idea that simply because it doesn't maximize the value of the individual player the FO won't do it, as long as getting the bat into the lineup is the best thing for the team. That isn't logical. That's the antithesis of logical.

If the goal is to have AGon at first in 2012, they will not go long on Beltre. As for the presumption that Ortiz will be gone in 2012, that won't happen if he hits 35 bombs with 100+ RBI. If the bullpen fence is coming in, he could hit those marks, and they'll give him another one year contract.

[BSN07]

If the goal is to have AGon at first in 2012' date=' they will not go long on Beltre. As for the presumption that Ortiz will be gone in 2012, that won't happen if he hits 35 bombs with 100+ RBI. If the bullpen fence is coming in, he could hit those marks, and they'll give him another one year contract.[/quote']

 

Ortiz could very well be back next year as well. But he will be on another 1 year deal. If he wants multi years he will have to go elsewhere. 2012 I believe would be his 10th season on the Red Sox. Something I typically wouldn't put much stock into except for the small fact that the Sox have a rule about being on the team for 10 seasons before your number is eligible to retire I believe?. And out of all the players on their WS winning teams, I would like to see Ortiz's # retired the most.

[Will617]

V-Mart likely gone. Heard he was offered 4 years, $50 mil with the Tigers, and 3 years, $48 by the Sox.

[redsoxrules]

V-Mart likely gone. Heard he was offered 4 years, $50 mil with the Tigers, and 3 years, $48 by the Sox.

 

V-mart is gone , he just signed with the tigers

 

The Tigers added a middle of the order bat today, reaching an agreement with catcher Victor Martinez on a four-year, $50MM contract. Martinez was widely regarded as the best offensive catcher available, though he may see significant time as Detroit's designated hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

They wouldn't beat 4/50? Man, that's a huge loss

[BSN07]

V-Mart likely gone. Heard he was offered 4 years, $50 mil with the Tigers, and 3 years, $48 by the Sox.

 

Are those numbers right? He got 1 year and 2M extra for signing with the Tigers?