What is Jed Lowrie?

[Dipre]

The scouting reports i've read say he has a strong arm, but s***** accuracy.

 

Besides, if you want a SS with a s***** arm that "gets by" you need look no further than our very own Marco Scutaro. I'm pretty damn sure his arm is weaker than Lowrie's.

[a700hitter]

The scouting reports i've read say he has a strong arm, but s***** accuracy.

 

Besides, if you want a SS with a s***** arm that "gets by" you need look no further than our very own Marco Scutaro. I'm pretty damn sure his arm is weaker than Lowrie's.

I may have seen him play more than the scouts. But seriously, the one criticism i mgiht have about his throwing would be his release time. Maybe.

[ow holmes]

I may have seen him play more than the scouts. But seriously' date=' the one criticism i mgiht have about his throwing would be his release time. Maybe.[/quote']

 

I don't have the statistics, but I have followed Jed since he was with the Lowell Spinners, and watch for him every game. If he had an accuracy problem it would show in throwing errors. In 08, of course, he had no errors from short in the regular season and one in the post season and that was a fielding error, as I recall. I don't remember his errors in 09, except the error he was given for bumping into Lowell when both went for a fly ball in shallow left. Crappy call. I don't remember a throwing error that year. In 2010 he had two errors at short, and one was a throwing error, and that was his first or second game back from mono. If my feeble memory is correct, that is one throwing error from short in three seasons, although all three were short years, and one was very short. Still, that doesn't look like he has an accuracy problem. Certainly not as compared to Scutaro. As for release time, that is largely a matter of perception as no statistics record it, but my perception is that he gets it off quickly when that is required, and takes his time when a quick turn around is not necessary. At second this year, his turnaround time on double plays improved throughout his time there. I can see why some might think release time is an issue, "maybe," but with all the other plusses, not a big deal for me.

 

I hope he starts at short next year. It's not that he has earned it. It's that he seems to be the better of our shortstops, and is certainly the one with the most upside going forward, and if the only worry is that he may get injured, then we have Scutaro in backup. Why not put the best guy on the field as long as he is healthy?

[SoxSport]

Wait and see. Can't define his role yet. Injured too much. Fits as backup SS, 3B right now.

[Dipre]

Terry Francona just finished up a 27-minute session with the media. Here are a few of the highlights:

 

• He doesn't see a platoon with J.D. Drew in right field, more dropping him down against lefties.

 

• There is a better understanding with David Ortiz that if they sit him against certain lefties, he shouldn't take offense. That said, Francona feels Ortiz need to stay in there against lefties on occasion because it helps his overall game. "Our first choice is for David to rake," he said.

 

• "We signed Cam to play," he said about Mike Cameron. That sounds a lot like left field. of course it also could mean some right field, some left field, some center field and some DH.

 

• Felix Doubront will come to camp as a reliever. So there's one spot in the bullpen filled.

 

• He did not feel need to reach out to Jonathan Papelbon in the wake of the team making an offer to Mariano Rivera. He joked that Papelbon probably didn't even know about it.

 

• Francona said he can't figure out Dice-K. But said if he's the fourth or fifth starter, that's a good rotation.

 

• He said Jacoby Ellsbury was still feeling something in his back a few weeks ago. But they expect him healthy for spring training.

 

• They see Jed Lowrie as the utility man, playing first, second, third and short.

 

• Adrian Gonzalez won't be able to swing a bat until March 1.

 

• Francona is comfortable with the Salty/Tek catching combo and predicted Varitek would catch more often than the average backup.

 

• Kevin Youkilis, he said, is excited about playing third base. He has always considered himself a third baseman even when he was at first.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth.

[a700hitter]

• Adrian Gonzalez won't be able to swing a bat until March 1.

 

I really, really really hope that our doctors gave his shoulder a thorough examination.

[Dipre]

I really' date=' really really hope that our doctors gave his shoulder a thorough examination.[/quote']

 

I have a question.

 

On the hypothetical event that the doctors would have found something wrong with his shoulder and the Sox would have backed out of the deal, what do you think your reaction would have been?

[jacksonianmarch]

Ellsbury still feeling something in his back. Like I said when the incident occured, rib fractures can take a LOOOONG time to heal and the pain lasts well past the fracture.

[VA Sox Fan]

Ellsbury still feeling something in his back. Like I said when the incident occured' date=' rib fractures can take a LOOOONG time to heal and the pain lasts well past the fracture.[/quote']

 

Why was Michael Vick able to come back so quickly? And didn't Josh Hamilton have rib fractures? What was so different about Ellsbury's injury?

[BSN07]

Why was Michael Vick able to come back so quickly? And didn't Josh Hamilton have rib fractures? What was so different about Ellsbury's injury?

 

He is on the Red Sox.

[VA Sox Fan]

He is on the Red Sox.

 

[a700hitter]

I have a question.

 

On the hypothetical event that the doctors would have found something wrong with his shoulder and the Sox would have backed out of the deal, what do you think your reaction would have been?

I didn't know about his shoulder surgery until the trade had been announced. I had concerns about it immediately, before he got his physical. I asked whether it could affect his extension and power. Check the threads. I even made a joke that he was getting checked by the same doctor that checked Schilling's shoulder. I wouldn't want a damaged player. There are other options.

 

Since everyone on this forum thinks they know what a700 thinks in every circumstance, was i supposed to say that I would have blamed Theo? :lol: You people need to spend more time trying to figure out yourselves instead of trying to figure me out. People that I have known for decades can't figure me out. :lol:

[VA Sox Fan]

I didn't know about his shoulder surgery until the trade had been announced. I had concerns about it immediately, before he got his physical. I asked whether it could affect his extension and power. Check the threads. I even made a joke that he was getting checked by the same doctor that checked Schilling's shoulder. I wouldn't want a damaged player. There are other options.

 

Since everyone on this forum thinks they know what a700 thinks in every circumstance, was i supposed to say that I would have blamed Theo? :lol: You people need to spend more time trying to figure out yourselves instead of trying to figure me out. People that I have known for decades can't figure me out. :lol:

 

OH NOOOOO.....you went all 3rd person!!

 

I don't tend to try to figure people out too much on the internet. Based on my observations of your posts I think you need to be able to laugh at yourself from time to time and recognize when it is time to drop something or simply let it go.

[a700hitter]

OH NOOOOO.....you went all 3rd person!!

 

I don't tend to try to figure people out too much on the internet. Based on my observations of your posts I think you need to be able to laugh at yourself from time to time and recognize when it is time to drop something or simply let it go.

Ah, but can you?

[VA Sox Fan]

Ah' date=' but can you?[/quote']

 

Yep. I'm my own worse critic. But then again, VA Sox Fan is always right.

[a700hitter]

Yep. I'm my own worse critic. But then again' date=' VA Sox Fan is always right.[/quote']I knew you couldn't.

[soxnation04]

What is Jed Lowrie? He is a human being with feelings.

 

haha ok but seriously, I see him more as a utility man but again I haven't watched this season very closely. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot at SS

[Keeper]

I know I already said this, but I say give him a chance to see if he can hold down the position. The Sox have absolutely nothing to lose. He clearly has a much higher ceiling than Scutaro. He does well, and Scutaro becomes a utility player, which is where he probably belongs. He gets hurt, you go back to Scutaro, and you're no worse off than you were before. No downside to letting him start at short.

[Dojji]

there is technically a downside, if you play him and he gets hurt, you've lost your shot at a darn good 3 position .800 OPS bench infielder, which are hard to find and very valuable.

 

That said, an .800 OPS shortstop is even more valuable, and this is not a team that ought to be afraid to go for the brass ring. A Jed Lowrie hitting and defending up to his demonstrated ability is among the best SS in the league, especially given the shallow competition and low standards among American League shortstops at the moment -- it's a chance to really put ourselves ahead without making a big trade and should be siezed on that basis.

[Dipre]

there is technically a downside, if you play him and he gets hurt, you've lost your shot at a darn good 3 position .800 OPS bench infielder, which are hard to find and very valuable.

 

That said, an .800 OPS shortstop is even more valuable, and this is not a team that ought to be afraid to go for the brass ring. A Jed Lowrie hitting and defending up to his demonstrated ability is among the best SS in the league, especially given the shallow competition and low standards among American League shortstops at the moment -- it's a chance to really put ourselves ahead without making a big trade and should be siezed on that basis.

 

That's exactly what i'm talking about when i say "overselling".

 

Lowrie has the potential to be a consistent .800+ OPS player, but he hasn't demonstrated that he is yet, and you speak of his .800 OPS like he's been doing it in the league for years.

 

Anyways, i'd keep him on the bench as an extremely valuable member on the bench and break him in slowly until he proves he can handle the rigors of everyday work (as i've said before). There is a ton to lose, because if he's not physically ready and gets injured, you lose an extremely valuable member of your bench. Why not play it safe? It's not like he'll rot on the bench anyways.

[Dojji]

That's exactly what i'm talking about when i say "overselling".

 

Lowrie has the potential to be a consistent .800+ OPS player, but he hasn't demonstrated that he is yet, and you speak of his .800 OPS like he's been doing it in the league for years.

 

I'm cherry-picking a little, taking the offense from this year and the D from 08 which was when he last played consistently at SS, but he's not that far from achieving that potential, and I honestly believe he has the ability to surpass it.

 

Anyways, i'd keep him on the bench as an extremely valuable member on the bench and break him in slowly until he proves he can handle the rigors of everyday work (as i've said before). There is a ton to lose, because if he's not physically ready and gets injured, you lose an extremely valuable member of your bench. Why not play it safe? It's not like he'll rot on the bench anyways.

 

Why not play it safe? Because there's more to gain than there is to lose. If you take that risk and it pays off, you have a puncher's chance to have the best SS in the American League, especially if Jeter does NOT rebound. Maybe even if he does. Point is the competition for offensive shortstops isn't precisely stiff at the moment and Lowrie can probably lay claim to the title with an .800-.850 OPS, 12 HR kinda year, which we already know is something he has the talent to do.

 

Besides hitting better than Scutaro when healthy, Lowrie's also quite a bit better defensively. Even if he doesn't have the kinda offensive year I'm projecting, Lowrie's no slouch as a defensive SS and could justify his role on that basis with a ..700-750 OPS and still be one of the better all-around SS in the league. The standards are that low right now, a chance to overshoot those standards by as much as Lowrie could if he has a great year should be seized with both hands.

[Dipre]

Why not play it safe? Because there's more to gain than there is to lose. If you take that risk and it pays off, you have a puncher's chance to have the best SS in the American League, especially if Jeter does NOT rebound. Maybe even if he does, the competition for offensive shortstops isn't precisely stiff at the moment and Lowrie can probably lay claim to the title with an .800-.850 OPS, 12 HR kinda year, which we already know is something he has the talent to do.

 

Besides hitting better than Scutaro when healthy, Lowrie's also quite a bit better defensively. Even if he doesn't have the kinda offensive year I'm projecting, Lowrie's no slouch as a defensive SS and could justify his role on that basis with a ..700-750 OPS and still be one of the better all-around SS in the league. The standards are that low right now, a chance to overshoot those standards by as much as Lowrie could if he has a great year should be seized with both hands.

 

Again with the overselling.

 

Anyways, i'm going to throw this out there, just for the sake of discussion.

 

The Red Sox Fo and their manager view Lowrie as the utility and Scutaro as the starting SS.

 

Can you provide me with reasons why your evaluation of his health and possible performance is superior to that of the FO?

 

Because as far as i'm concerned, neither of us is a talent evaluator or has real insight to his health situation, therefore, the FO's judgment has to be worth something, right?

[Dojji]

If they saw Scutaro as a starter, they wouldn't have shopped him. That little soundbite came back only after the "Sox are shopping Scutaro to Team X, Y, Z" rumors didn't turn into a trade. Of course they're going to affirm Scutaro as a starter, for the sake of his trade value if nothing else. It's an empty statement, especially in the offseason when we don't have relative season performances to compare.

 

If Lowrie is radically outperforming Scutaro after a month of play, the roles will swap. Tito isn't stupid, he'll give his team the best possible chance to win, no matter who that happens to be at the moment. We'll see who's starting at SS by June.

 

Besides which, can we just be blunt here? Scutaro's health is in question. A mid 30's middle infielder with back problems is a bigger concern by a lot than a mid 20's infielder with 1 lingering wrist injury and a bout with mono. I don't think Scutaro is really a "safer bet" in any sense of the word.

[Palodios]

Lowrie has the potential to be a consistent .800+ OPS player, but he hasn't demonstrated that he is yet, and you speak of his .800 OPS like he's been doing it in the league for years.That's exactly what i'm talking about when i say "overselling".

 

\

 

What impresses me the most about Lowrie is that he hit at a .900 OPS in 2010 immediately following a span of two years when he didn't play at all. For a guy that is as injury-prone as he is, that is an amazing trait to have. I think we learned that he can't hit well when playing through injuries, with the wrist injury, but when he's healthy, he's going to hit. There are not very large samples to back this up, but still-- he hits when healthy.

[Beaneater]

Why not put the best guy on the field as long as he is healthy?

 

What holmes said.

 

Here I will expose my ignorance. Everyone talks about Jed being prone to injury, not likely able to stick it out for a whole year, etc. I remember a wrist injury (which he seems to be fully recovered from) and a case of mono (not sure what he was supposed to do to avoid that). Am I forgetting something?

 

Anyhoo, it seems just as likely to be crappy luck than fragility. Unless he was oft-injured in college or the minors or something. Then I guess we can talk about injury-proneness.

 

Lowrie > Scutaro. That should be the end of the discussion. I'm not really sure why Tito is relegating him to utility guy at this stage of the game.

[Dipre]

If they saw Scutaro as a starter, they wouldn't have shopped him. That little soundbite came back only after the "Sox are shopping Scutaro to Team X, Y, Z" rumors didn't turn into a trade. Of course they're going to affirm Scutaro as a starter, for the sake of his trade value if nothing else. It's an empty statement, especially in the offseason when we don't have relative season performances to compare.

 

If Lowrie is radically outperforming Scutaro after a month of play, the roles will swap. Tito isn't stupid, he'll give his team the best possible chance to win, no matter who that happens to be at the moment. We'll see who's starting at SS by June.

 

Besides which, can we just be blunt here? Scutaro's health is in question. A mid 30's middle infielder with back problems is a bigger concern by a lot than a mid 20's infielder with 1 lingering wrist injury and a bout with mono. I don't think Scutaro is really a "safer bet" in any sense of the word.

 

I call ********. There was just as much a chance Lowrie was traded. (He was mentioned in Gonzo rumors several times). The Sox gauged interest on both of them.

 

I call ******** again, since Scutaro demonstrated he can produce while injured, something Lowrie has been unable to do.

 

I'll call ******** a third time. I've never said Lowrie won't take over the starter's job, but that they want to break him in slowly, which absolutely makes sense for both his and the organization's long term plan for him. It's common sense.

 

 

What holmes said.

 

Here I will expose my ignorance. Everyone talks about Jed being prone to injury, not likely able to stick it out for a whole year, etc. I remember a wrist injury (which he seems to be fully recovered from) and a case of mono (not sure what he was supposed to do to avoid that). Am I forgetting something?

 

Anyhoo, it seems just as likely to be crappy luck than fragility. Unless he was oft-injured in college or the minors or something. Then I guess we can talk about injury-proneness.

 

Lowrie > Scutaro. That should be the end of the discussion. I'm not really sure why Tito is relegating him to utility guy at this stage of the game.

 

Simple. Why risk finding out if the kid is indeed injury prone by throwing him into the fire when you can both break him in slowly and build a healthy Scutaro's trade value? Common sense.

 

Also, i love the "Lowrie> Scutaro" crowd, when he hasn't even played half a season yet.

 

Don't get me wrong, Scutaro is a terribly average SS in every sense of the word, but he's at least demonstrated durability and production. I didn't even like the signing and criticized it publicly and ate crow when he performed like he did with all those injuries.

 

But again, none of us are talent evaluators or know the actual health status of Lowrie. Double-guessing the Fo seems like an exercise in futility to me.

[Palodios]

But again' date=' none of us are talent evaluators [b']or know the actual health status of Lowrie[/b]. Double-guessing the Fo seems like an exercise in futility to me.

 

Not true. We know the health status of Lowrie--healthy. But we don't have a clue about the health status of Scutaro. Serious back problems can end careers. We also know exactly what Scutaro is capable of, while Lowrie has a much much higher ceiling. I have no problem starting Scutaro and easing Lowrie in, but based on what we've seen, Lowrie is a much better player.

[Dipre]

Not true. We know the health status of Lowrie--healthy. But we don't have a clue about the health status of Scutaro. Serious back problems can end careers. We also know exactly what Scutaro is capable of' date=' while Lowrie has a much much higher ceiling. I have no problem starting Scutaro and easing Lowrie in, but based on what we've seen, Lowrie is a much better player.[/quote']

 

By "what we've seen" do you mean the 55 game and 171 AB showing of 2010?

 

Scutaro's injury was not a back injury. And you have absolutely no knowledge of any lingering effects or issues with Lowrie's overall health, and just pulled both of those statements (not the ceiling one) out of your ass.

 

Show me a report where the Sox state a clean bill of health for Lowrie, and recurring health issues (or even that his issue was a back issue for that matter) and i'll concede.

 

Good luck.

[Palodios]

You seem to be nitpicking at this point. Excuse me if I don't happen to use exact medical terms, the Scutaro issue was a pinched nerve in his upper vertebrae, AND an issue with his shoulder. I clearly know that as I've mentioned it in other posts, and was generalizing here. Anything that has to do with the spine is a danger area, and the shoulder doesn't help. The point is, he was hurt all last season.

 

And as far as Lowrie-- you have ZERO grounds to say he's unhealthy. If you demand medical records, I want some from you-- his performance, along with that of Scutaro's speaks for themselves. He has performed fine on the field, and hasn't had any injuries that will affect his performance since 2009. Mono is not going to affect his swing in 2015, it might affect his overall strength, but he clearly had no problems with hitting for power.

[Dipre]

You seem to be nitpicking at this point. Excuse me if I don't happen to use exact medical terms, the Scutaro issue was a pinched nerve in his upper vertebrae, AND an issue with his shoulder. I clearly know that as I've mentioned it in other posts, and was generalizing here. Anything that has to do with the spine is a danger area, and the shoulder doesn't help. The point is, he was hurt all last season.

 

And as far as Lowrie-- you have ZERO grounds to say he's unhealthy. If you demand medical records, I want some from you-- his performance, along with that of Scutaro's speaks for themselves. He has performed fine on the field, and hasn't had any injuries that will affect his performance since 2009. Mono is not going to affect his swing in 2015, it might affect his overall strength, but he clearly had no problems with hitting for power.

 

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

My "demanding medical reports" has more to do with proving the point that none of us have any info about either player's health status and that any and all affirmations are speculation, as you've just proven.

 

The only indication we have as to how each player's status is viewed for 2011 are statements made by the FO, by which statements i will ask the following question: Do you think you know better than them?

 

Also, on the "hitting for power" front, i love SSS. Kid has a legit OBP/gap power tool set, but was never a power hitter in the minors, but now he hits a couple dingers in 2010, and some people are touting him as a surefire 20-HR hitter.

 

I like to keep my expectations in reality, and overselling a Red Sox player's abilities is akin to the Yankee fans we all love to criticize.

 

I'd like to see the kid maintain an 11.4 HR/FB% for more than 171 AB's in order to see the legitimacy of his power.