The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure what you're arguing about. At the time' date=' his medical report showed potential health concerns, and that's why he didn't get the fifth year. Werth has a very similar skill set, and does not have health concerns, thus he'll probably get a bigger contract.[/quote']I'm not arguing about the stated reason by the Red Sox. IMO Werth is not much more valuable than Bay even with those concerns. If the Sox wanted a big right handed bat to play left but were concerned about Bay's health, they should have made a bigger push for Holliday. Holliday is a far superior offensive player than bay or Werth.

[Palodios]

Unfortunately, Holliday and Bay are off the market-- they chose to put the money they had last year into Beckett and Lackey. This offseason, Werth is the option they have, and they have money for him because of what was freed up between Lowell and Lugo. Elite players simply get longer contracts when they're healthier, its that simple.

[Yaz Sideburn]

i doubt the mets would have given bay the contract that they did if they had serious concerns about his health

[Yaz Sideburn]

And if we nab Lee in the offseason' date=' this team could be primed for another late 90s style run[/quote']

 

they'll be in trouble if they don't

[Yaz Sideburn]

Saito was healthy and back pitching for the Dodgers at the end of 2008 before the Red Sox picked him up.

 

how is that any differnt than webb who is now healthy and plans to pitch for the d-backs before the end of the season?

[Yaz Sideburn]

I don't think the 5 year track record is great considering the financial resources and payroll of the Red Sox. Tampa has beaten us twice in 5 years with much less resources. The track record isn't bad' date=' but two 3rd place finishes in 5 years is not great.[/quote']

 

any team in baseball would take 2 world series in 5 years, regardless of where they finished the other 3

[a700hitter]

any team in baseball would take 2 world series in 5 years' date=' regardless of where they finished the other 3[/quote']The Sox have won one World Championship in the last 5 years. The Yankees could have 2 after this season.

[TheKilo]

I tell you what a700. Keep lining for dan duquette because his administration sure won us a lot of world series titles with an all world Pedro Martinez and a in his prime nomar garciaparra.

 

Oh wait, they didn't win until it was Theo who constructed the team? Never mind.

[TheKilo]

The Sox have won one World Championship in the last 5 years. The Yankees could have 2 after this season.

 

You're sucking the Yankees cock over a hypothetical title?

[Yaz Sideburn]

The Sox have won one World Championship in the last 5 years. The Yankees could have 2 after this season.

 

the red sox could have 2 after this season too. what's your point?

[a700hitter]

I tell you what a700. Keep lining for dan duquette because his administration sure won us a lot of world series titles with an all world Pedro Martinez and a in his prime nomar garciaparra.

 

Oh wait, they didn't win until it was Theo who constructed the team? Never mind.

Why are you attacking me? Are you incapable of a discussion without getting personal? Let's discuss the record of the current FO if you want, but drop the other nonsense.

[a700hitter]

the red sox could have 2 after this season too. what's your point?

[a700hitter]

You're sucking the Yankees cock over a hypothetical title?

Sucking Yankee cock? What the hell are you talking about? I'm the guy that wants their entire team to get pilot's licenses. I'm not going to wash the balls of our FO that has a ton of money and that spends a ton of money, but has managed to finish in third place twic in the last 5 years. They have made more than their fair share of really bad investments. Dice K and Julio Lugo top that list.

[Yaz Sideburn]

 

one ridiculous statement deserves another. why don't you wait for the yankees to win another world series before you complain about them winning more than us in the last 5 years

[Yaz Sideburn]

Sucking Yankee cock? What the hell are you talking about? I'm the guy that wants their entire team to get pilot's licenses. I'm not going to wash the balls of our FO that has a ton of money and that spends a ton of money' date=' but has managed to finish in third place twic in the last 5 years. They have made more than their fair share of really bad investments. Dice K and Julio Lugo top that list.[/quote']

 

every team makes bad investments. i understand you're pissed about us finishing 3rd this year, but it's hardly fair to judge the front office. they put a really good team together this year

[a700hitter]

one ridiculous statement deserves another. why don't you wait for the yankees to win another world series before you complain about us not winning as many as them

I wasn't complaining about the Sox not winning as many championships as the Yankees. You said that the Sox had won twice in five years. I was pointing out that they had not won twice in the last 5 years and that only the Yankees have a shot at that. The Yankees last 5 years has been better than the Sox whether or not they win the Championship this season.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I wasn't complaining about the Sox not winning as many championships as the Yankees. You said that the Sox had won twice in five years. I was pointing out that they had not won twice in the last 5 years and that only the Yankees have a shot at that. The Yankees last 5 years has been better than the Sox whether or not they win the Championship this season.

 

in the last 5 seasons, the red sox have won 2 world series. i'm happy with that considering the 86 years before our current management took over and i'm happy with the team the management put together this year. it's not their fault that kevin youkilis, dustin pedroia, jacoby ellsbury, mike cameron, victor martinez, josh beckett, clay buchholz, daisuke matsuzaka, jason varitek, etc. all hit the disabled list this year

[a700hitter]

in the last 5 seasons' date=' the red sox have won 2 world series. i'm happy with that considering the 86 years before our current management took over and i'm happy with the team the management put together this year. it's not their fault that kevin youkilis, dustin pedroia, jacoby ellsbury, mike cameron, victor martinez, josh beckett, clay buchholz, daisuke matsuzaka, jason varitek, etc. all hit the disabled list this year[/quote']It's 2010. We have not won a World Championship in 2009, 2008, 2006 or 2005. They did win in 2007. By my count, that is the last 5 years. We are not going to win in 2010, so they have won once in the last 6 years. I to am happy to have witnessed the Red Sox Championships. That's not my point. My point is to take an unemotional look at the performance of the FO. I am not happy with the team that the FO put together this season regardless of the injuries. Our bullpen was a mess all season long.

[TheKilo]

Why are you attacking me? Are you incapable of a discussion without getting personal? Let's discuss the record of the current FO if you want' date=' but drop the other nonsense.[/quote']

 

Nothing in that post can be construed as a personal attack.

[Yaz Sideburn]

It's 2010. We have not won a World Championship in 2009' date=' 2008, 2006 or 2005. They did win in 2007. By my count, that is the last 5 years. We are not going to win in 2010, so they have won once in the last 6 years. I to am happy to have witnessed the Red Sox Championships. That's not my point. My point is to take an unemotional look at the performance of the FO. I am not happy with the team that the FO put together this season regardless of the injuries. Our bullpen was a mess all season long.[/quote']

 

how many games do you think the red sox would have won if they were healthy?

[a700hitter]

Nothing in that post can be construed as a personal attack.

In your follow up post, you asked why I was "sucking Yankee dick". I don't know how to take that other than personally.

[TheKilo]

Sucking Yankee cock? What the hell are you talking about? I'm the guy that wants their entire team to get pilot's licenses. I'm not going to wash the balls of our FO that has a ton of money and that spends a ton of money' date=' but has managed to finish in third place twic in the last 5 years. They have made more than their fair share of really bad investments. Dice K and Julio Lugo top that list.[/quote']

 

If you can't wrap your head around the difference in being able to spend money between the Sox and Yankees, arguing with you will prove a fruitless exercise. For every Julio Lugo, there's a Jaret Wright, Jason Giambi, and Carl Pavano.

 

You don't think Dice-K has been a good investment? Taking the posting fee out iftbe equation, the guy has been worth his contract. Even if you don't think so, he hasn't been a disaster like Wright, Pavano, or Igawa.

 

I'm pissed this team isn't going to be in the playoffs either but let's calm down with this talk - I prefer they miss the playoffs once every four years than o the Tampa route and suck for 15.

[Spudboy]

Damn. I'm all out of popcorn.

[a700hitter]

how many games do you think the red sox would have won if they were healthy?

More than they have now. Would they have won more games than they have now if the bullpen was as good as the Yanks bullpen or the Rays bullpen?

[TheKilo]

In your follow up post' date=' you asked why I was "sucking Yankee dick". I don't know how to take that other than personally.[/quote']

 

I apologize for the vulgar turn of phrase. You seem to wish the Sox adopt the Yankees way of spending money BUT IT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE

[TheKilo]

It's 2010. We have not won a World Championship in 2009' date=' 2008, 2006 or 2005. They did win in 2007. By my count, that is the last 5 years. We are not going to win in 2010, so they have won once in the last 6 years. I to am happy to have witnessed the Red Sox Championships. That's not my point. My point is to take an unemotional look at the performance of the FO. I am not happy with the team that the FO put together this season regardless of the injuries. Our bullpen was a mess all season long.[/quote']

 

Show me the posts where you foresaw the rapid decline of Okajima, Delcarmen, and to a lesser extent Ramirez. Most teams would kill for a Pap/Bard/Okajima/Delcarmen/Ramirez bullpen before the season started.

[Yaz Sideburn]

More than they have now. Would they have won more games than they have now if the bullpen was as good as the Yanks bullpen or the Rays bullpen?

 

cop out answer. you're complaining that it's the front offices fault the red sox are going to finish third. so i'm curious, how many games do you think they would have won if they were healthy?

[a700hitter]

If you can't wrap your head around the difference in being able to spend money between the Sox and Yankees, arguing with you will prove a fruitless exercise. For every Julio Lugo, there's a Jaret Wright, Jason Giambi, and Carl Pavano.

 

You don't think Dice-K has been a good investment? Taking the posting fee out iftbe equation, the guy has been worth his contract. Even if you don't think so, he hasn't been a disaster like Wright, Pavano, or Igawa.

 

I'm pissed this team isn't going to be in the playoffs either but let's calm down with this talk - I prefer they miss the playoffs once every four years than o the Tampa route and suck for 15.

The $50 million posting fee wasn't real money? How many hats did we sell in Japan to pay that off? Or did it give us easier access to big talents like Junichi Tazawa? Dice K was a bust-- a waste of money. Until the FO dscloses some sort of meaningful revenue stream from Japan, I will continue to believe that we got nothing for the posting fee. We got the exclusive right to negotiate. We didn't get an exclusive right to market... did we? Dice K's Japaneses team is the only team to make anything on that part of the transaction.

 

You are asking me to calm down? Go s*** some D***. Nothing personal...right?

[a700hitter]

cop out answer. you're complaining that it's the front offices fault the red sox are going to finish third. so i'm curious' date=' how many games do you think they would have won if they were healthy?[/quote']So you think that a team with a roster of 25 players, with a payroll around $170 million, that plays 162 games can have only one cause for missing the playoffs? Yes, the injuries were a huge factor, but so was the suckass bullpen. Change either of those two things , and IMO this team goes to the playoffs. I really can't make it any clearer.

[Yaz Sideburn]

So you think that a team with a roster of 25 players' date=' with a payroll around $170 million, that plays 162 games can have only one cause for missing the playoffs? Yes, the injuries were a huge factor, but so was the suckass bullpen. Change either of those two things , and IMO this team goes to the playoffs. I really can't make it any clearer.[/quote']

 

so you're saying that if the team didn't have all these injuries we would have made the playoffs but you still think it's the front office's fault for not putting a good enough team together?