Should Kalish make the team next year?

[Yaz Sideburn]

Name one that will make a major league impact right now.

 

why?

[Palodios]

Well, you're saying there are lots of trade chips on the team, and I can't think of any, and you didn't name any. The Sox are unlikely to trade Kelly, Kalish, or Iglesias, and I don't see them making a deal with any of their other pieces.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Well' date=' you're saying there are lots of trade chips on the team, and I can't think of any, and you didn't name any. The Sox are unlikely to trade Kelly, Kalish, or Iglesias, and I don't see them making a deal with any of their other pieces.[/quote']

 

they could include casey kelly, lars anderson, josh reddick, anthony rizzo, junichi tazawa, stolmy pimentel, yamaico navarro, will middlebrooks, ryan lavarnway or luis exposito in a deal

 

i'm not so sure that a rebuilding or small market team will want ellsbury. he's arbitration elligible for the next 3 years and then he'll be a free agent. they'll probably want guys who will be cost controlled and under team control longterm

[Dojji]

Name one that will make a major league impact right now.

 

Felix Doubront.

 

*and the crowd goes wild!*

 

Tell him what he won, Jim!

[Yaz Sideburn]

Felix Doubront.

 

*and the crowd goes wild!*

 

Tell him what he won, Jim!

 

i think there are plenty of rebuilding teams that might consider doubront, kalish, bowden tazawa or even lars for a starting job next year. i would like to keep doubront and kalish around if possible though, it all depends on what kind of a player we're talking about acquiring

[Palodios]

I wasn't ignoring doubront, I just don't see him turning into anything above a major league average player. And the others Yaz pointed out aren't exactly hall of famers waiting to happen.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I wasn't ignoring doubront' date=' I just don't see him turning into anything above a major league average player. And the others Yaz pointed out aren't exactly hall of famers waiting to happen.[/quote']

 

lars anderson, casey kelly, ryan kalish, felix doubront and will middlebrooks are some pretty impressive young guys. i think it's a matter of what combination of them the red sox would be willing to give up in a deal

 

edit: add michael bowden to that list. he's been quite impressive at aaa this year

[Will617]

Most players aren't HoFers waiting to happen. It all depends on what the Red Sox are trying to bring in.

Crawford seems like too similar of a player to Ellsbury for me, they're both .300/.350 guys with elite speed, Crawford has slightly better power. They're probably similar defensively too, given Ellsbury's numbers in left.

Adding another OF seems to put a lot of payroll commitment to a place where we don't need it. If Kalish is ML ready now (which he looks - a few more months will give a better look), that's two spots filled by Kalish and Ells post Cameron/Drew, and we'd just need either Nava or Reddick or (maybe in a couple years) Westmoreland to pan out in right. That's a lot of years of cost-controlled players. If the Sox splurge on an outfielder, that's more payroll dedicated to the spot, and less money to spend on more pressing needs (1B/3B/DH).

[Dojji]

Kinda depends on how desperate you are to cling to the illusion that Mike Cameron is our starting CF next year.

[soxfan74]

Exactly will617. Our deepest positions are outfield, First Base, and Catcher in the Minors. Not to shabby pitching wise although not immediate. The biggest problem is that outside of Nava who is a switch. Everyone seems to be a lefty. We need to move some lefty bats for some right hand bats. Really do not want to see Kalish leave. He is so far ahead of the game for his age. Could easily move Reddick or Nava. Maybe some of the other guys mentioned earlier.

[Dojji]

That's one of the reasons I think neither of Fielder or Gonzalez are going to be acquired by trade, nor will we sign Pena or Dunn unless we lose Ortiz. We need a righthanded power hitter, especially with Beltre moving on, and our acquisitions will be focused that way.

[Yaz Sideburn]

i agree dojji

[Palodios]

If the Sox splurge on an outfielder, that's more payroll dedicated to the spot, and less money to spend on more pressing needs (1B/3B/DH).

 

When the team looks at the off season, and asks "where can we improve?" they'll ignore the outfield because of money? That's ridiculous, they'll improve where they have problems, no matter what the contracts look like. Did it matter to them this offseason when they were paying 15 million to a third baseman already when they picked up Beltre?

[Dojji]

When the team looks at the off season' date=' and asks "where can we improve?" they'll ignore the outfield because of money? That's ridiculous, they'll improve where they have problems, no matter what the contracts look like. Did it matter to them this offseason when they were paying 15 million to a third baseman already when they picked up Beltre?[/quote']

 

Or maybe they'll ignore the outfield because of all of our current positions it has the best chance to improve longterm through a combination of health and prospect development without the need of a big FA splash. Whereas sorting out the mess at Catcher, corner Infield and DH really, really, really needs to be a high franchise priority.

 

to contend every year you have to plan years in advance whenever you can. Doing what makes you the best possible team next year at the expense of the year after is the best possible way to wind up in Detroit Tigers territory -- always almost good enough.

[SoxSport]

Lots of age in the OF. I doubt Cameron figures as a starter next year. Drew will be in his last year.

If Ellsbury gets traded, it will be for a power-hitting outfielder. Kalish will start next year if he continues hitting in September. He could be their CFder.

[Palodios]

Or maybe they'll ignore the outfield because of all of our current positions it has the best chance to improve longterm through a combination of health and prospect development without the need of a big FA splash. Whereas sorting out the mess at Catcher' date=' corner Infield and DH really, really, [i']really[/i] needs to be a high franchise priority.

 

to contend every year you have to plan years in advance whenever you can. Doing what makes you the best possible team next year at the expense of the year after is the best possible way to wind up in Detroit Tigers territory -- always almost good enough.

 

How does signing Crawford hurt the team long term? And if you don't plan on signing a big free agent outfielder now, who will you sign in 2011 to replace Drew?

 

There were two good outfield options for the Sox after 2009, and there are two more after 2010, but 2011 looks very weak. This team is not going to be able to fill its entire outfield from within, that's just unrealistic .What happens if Kalish doesn't pan out, and the outfield of Ellsbury/Drew/Cameron can't stay healthy? The Red Sox go into the 2012 season starting Ellsbury, Cody Ross and Ryan Ludwick?

[Dojji]

How does signing Crawford hurt the team long term? And if you don't plan on signing a big free agent outfielder now' date=' who will you sign in 2011 to replace Drew? [/quote']

 

1: You can sign Crawford without trading Ellsbury. Which since he'd come in really handy in 2012 is probably the better idea.

2: Crawford LF, Ellsbury CF, Kalish RF, Nava 4th/platoon, Reddick in the wings (because he's ill-suited to a bench role). Not a ton of power, but speed to more than make up for it.

[Will617]

Because Ellsbury is basically the same player, but has three years of arbitration left. That's about $45-60 mil wasted on buying the same player. And because it prevents Kalish from reaching the ML.

 

The likelihood of two elite outfield prospects (Kalish who has looked very good in terms of patience, defense, and power, and Reddick one who struggled but had looked like he was definitely pressing earlier in the season, and now looks a lot better) both not panning out doesn't seem that high. If Kalish finishes the season without a substantial decline, I believe that he's proven he's a major league player, and he doesn't have big enough holes in his game that can turn him into the next Rick Ankiel (the outfield incarnation).

[Palodios]

Because Ellsbury is basically the same player' date=' but has three years of arbitration left. That's about $45-60 mil wasted on buying.[/quote']

 

How is using the advantage of being a large market team "wasting" a player? They use Ellsbury as a trade chip to fill the gap at 1B, and replace his stats with Crawford. If it costs a little more to make this team better, than what's the problem?

[Will617]

The Red Sox don't have infinite money like the Yankees. Like I've said before, I don't think Ellsbury is a trade chip at all for a 1B, unless a competitive team that can't resign its slugging 1B (I can't think of any at the moment) has a hole at OF. Every time the Sox save money on a position with a minor leaguer/arbitration-eligible player, that's more money to spend on other players.

Pujols, Fielder and Gonzalez are free agents after the 2011 season. It makes a lot more sense to save money for that, rather than burning money long term on Crawford (who would likely command more money with this weak OF class).

[Dojji]

The weak OF class may help us as much as hurt us though. Outfielders are hard enough to come by that if Theo decides to move Cameron and/or Drew along, he may have better than normal luck finding a buyer.

[Will617]

If Kalish stays good the rest of the season, I think Cameron should get moved this offseason, with probably Ellsbury going back to center.

[Palodios]

The weak OF class may help us as much as hurt us though. Outfielders are hard enough to come by that if Theo decides to move Cameron and/or Drew along' date=' he may have better than normal luck finding a buyer.[/quote']

 

By that logic, he'd have more luck getting value from Ellsbury too. But no one will take those guys without a large amount of salary.

[Dojji]

This is all predicated on the idea that we're all so freaking impatient that we can't just wait for their contracts to expire anyway.

[jacksonianmarch]

Theo would have to pay the majority of the contracts of Cameron and Drew and wouldnt get anything back

[Yaz Sideburn]

Theo would have to pay the majority of the contracts of Cameron and Drew and wouldnt get anything back

 

[jacksonianmarch]

So you think a corner OFer who misses frequent games with aches and pains AND is in his mid 30s at $14 mil per is gonna get a big return? The sox got under value in 2007, over value in 2008 and 2009 and are currently not getting a big return on value in 2010.

 

And Cameron is probably gonna be post surgery at 7 mil a yr at 38y old. He's gonna have a market?

[example1]

So you think a corner OFer who misses frequent games with aches and pains AND is in his mid 30s at $14 mil per is gonna get a big return? The sox got under value in 2007, over value in 2008 and 2009 and are currently not getting a big return on value in 2010.

 

And Cameron is probably gonna be post surgery at 7 mil a yr at 38y old. He's gonna have a market?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there is minimal market for either. fortunately, there's just one season left of both, so no biggie.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. You'll be better off keeping them and hoping they can find the fountain of youth

[Yaz Sideburn]

So you think a corner OFer who misses frequent games with aches and pains AND is in his mid 30s at $14 mil per is gonna get a big return? The sox got under value in 2007, over value in 2008 and 2009 and are currently not getting a big return on value in 2010.

 

And Cameron is probably gonna be post surgery at 7 mil a yr at 38y old. He's gonna have a market?

 

i know stuff like "the red sox won't get anything in return and they'll have to pay most of their salaries" is just typical knee jerk stuff from you but try to think it through first. you really don't think a team will be willing to take on $4 million of mike cameron's salary next year?

 

i don't see them moving drew. he's one of the best right fielders in baseball