Should Kalish make the team next year?

[PineRider]

With 2-3 possible speedsters on the team between Kalish and possibly Ellsbury and/or Crawford you bat Pedroia down in the order.

 

The 7 hole is where bats go to die. Peddy is a spark, should stay up front.

 

All this aside, do we even stand a chance on getting Crawford AND AGonz in the offseason? Seems pretty far-fetched. And are we so certain that Beltre is 1 and done? Hmmm...

[Yaz Sideburn]

i didn't vote in the poll because with 3 quality outfielders under contract for next year, it's not necessary to sign a vet, but i don't think we should trade him

 

assuming all 3 of our outfielders are healthy next year, i would start kalish in triple a. if he performs well i would call him up, and if he's outproducing cameron or drew i would explore trading one of them at the deadline

[Palodios]

Right' date=' but the sox wouldnt deal away a treasure trove of prospects and MLB talent for a guy and not extend him. Plus, with the sox being at their highest payroll ever, and in this uncertain economic climate, you are seeing a lot of teams pare payroll rather than add[/quote']

 

I think its pretty clear that this team has been saving its prospects this season. If they need a bit bat, they have the goods to get one. But I agree-- if they trade Ellsbury to get A-gon, and then get a Crawford or Werth, that's 40 million in payroll per year right there, and there are obstacles to that. But it can still work.

 

A-gon will be cheap in 2011. Plus, dropping nonessential pieces like Okie/Wake/RR/tek/Lowell/Lugo/Wake/Herm save them 35 million. In 2012, the rotation is still set, and they're going to shed a ton of payroll again -- 22 million of which is coming from the outfield.

[jacksonianmarch]

if the front office traded a player every time fans called in to weei to complain about them' date=' we'd be fielding a roster of minor leaguers. if ellsbury plays well, the fans will forget all about him missing most of the year. that's how talk radio works, especially in boston[/quote']

 

YS, EEI is a cesspool, but when the fans call in calling for blood on a daily basis, then you can kinda get a pulse for the nation. I think the other things factoring in here are the agent and the fact that the sox FO has been pretty mum rather than outwardly protecting the guy

[Yaz Sideburn]

YS' date=' EEI is a cesspool, but when the fans call in calling for blood on a daily basis, then you can kinda get a pulse for the nation. I think the other things factoring in here are the agent and the fact that the sox FO has been pretty mum rather than outwardly protecting the guy[/quote']

 

weei isn't really representative of the typical red sox fan, it's entertainment

[redsoxrules]

He's having an off year by his standards. The stats back that up. Why does this argument continue?

 

you do know that there's 2 months left to play eh?

 

Drew was brutal last year at this time and he went on run and finish the season strong.

wait till he gets on one of his hot streak

[jacksonianmarch]

There isnt actually. The minor league season has about a month left

[redsoxrules]

There isnt actually. The minor league season has about a month left

 

We're talking about Drew

[jacksonianmarch]

oh, sorry

[Will617]

I think Kalish is projected to become a corner outfielder, I'd guess he doesn't project to have the range at center. Of course, Youkilis was projected to be an average 3B as best, but Kalish does seem to be getting time in LF instead of CF (as Patterson started in CF instead of him). If he does move to CF, that will increase his value (in trades and to the Sox) as most CF don't hit for as much power as he does.

I don't think the Yankees or the Red Sox would be in the market for Crawford. Ellsbury will not get traded for A-Gon because he has three years of arbitration after this year, and then he's gone for sure; the Padres aren't going to get Ellsbury unless they're certain they will contend in those three years.

Also, Albert Pujols is a free agent the offseason after next. Maybe the Sox are saving up payroll?

[jacksonianmarch]

The only way I see the Yankees in on Crawford is if they deal Gardner or Granderson. Swisher has been our second best player this yr

[Will617]

The only way I see the Yankees in on Crawford is if they deal Gardner or Granderson. Swisher has been our second best player this yr

 

Gardner's also been playing well, sooooo...

Cya Granderson?

[Dojji]

On the other hand, a lot of midmarket teams could be in on him. This is a guy that fits the midmarket big park philosophy probably better than the big market one.

 

I could see the Mariners or Padres surprising people by jumping into the bidding just because of how well a guy like Crawford plays into the kind of game those two teams seem to favor. I certainly expect the Tigers to ask, although I'm not sure if they have the resources to do more than that. The Orioles and Jays are also longshots worth thinking about.

[Will617]

I thought the Padres were a small-market team given their payroll.

[Dojji]

San Diego is a mid market. The ownership plays small, but that's an ownership decision, not a market one. if Hoyer demonstrates that the Padres can win, even that ownership might invest in its team.

[Palodios]

weei isn't really representative of the typical red sox fan' date=' it's entertainment[/quote']

 

There have been several reports that suggest that he was on the trade market before the deadline. The way this situation has turned it is exactly like how things went with Manny, Nomar, etc.

[jacksonianmarch]

exactly

[ORS]

With 2-3 possible speedsters on the team between Kalish and possibly Ellsbury and/or Crawford you bat Pedroia down in the order.

Don't phrase this as common knowledge. It's not. It's what you'd do, and with a productive player like Pedroia it makes little sense.

 

Also, you put him there, per your previous post, in a desire to not get too one-handed in the lineup. Baserunning had nothing to do with your previous reasoning. Be consistent.

[Dojji]

because no one can ever have multiiple good reasons for doing a thing.

 

Both reasons (that Kalish has a good OBP-speed combination skillset and Pedroia and Youkilis shouldn't bat back to back) are solid reasons to break that lineup down differently.

[Will617]

Youk has really good splits against righties. .926 OPS against lefties, .878 against righties. Same with Pedroia - .805 OPS to .841 (yes he's actually hit better against righties).

[Dojji]

Sure, but that doesn't change two facts:

 

1: The proposed lineup has six lefties

 

2: Putting two of your precious few righties back to back in a lineup with 6 lefties isn't smart.

[ORS]

because no one can ever have multiiple good reasons for doing a thing.

Strawman. I never said that. Try again.

 

Both reasons (that Kalish has a good OBP-speed combination skillset and Pedroia and Youkilis shouldn't bat back to back) are solid reasons to break that lineup down differently.

The advantage gained by splitting up RH hitters is totally mitigated by putting Kalish, a good looking young player who, per the topic starter of the thread, which was written by you, is likely to experience some growing pains, in the #2 slot over a proven productive player. Clearly you have some expectation that he won't be as good an offensive player as Pedroia is (the growing pains and all), so it comes down to this.....do you want a good OBP player who handles the bat well hitting #2 behind Crawford, or do you want a lesser (again, per your expectations) hitter who profiles to have a little more speed and doesn't hit right handed? It's as simple as that. The answer is obvious, but I get the sense that you are going to continue waffling here rather than swallowing your pride and admitting what I'm sure everyone knows here, that it was an impulsive, not well thought out point.

[Yaz Sideburn]

There have been several reports that suggest that he was on the trade market before the deadline. The way this situation has turned it is exactly like how things went with Manny' date=' Nomar, etc.[/quote']

 

there was a made up report with no source that turned out to be false. that's pretty standard for any trade deadline

[Dojji]

Strawman. I never said that. Try again.

 

 

The advantage gained by splitting up RH hitters is totally mitigated by putting Kalish, a good looking young player who, per the topic starter of the thread, which was written by you, is likely to experience some growing pains, in the #2 slot over a proven productive player. Clearly you have some expectation that he won't be as good an offensive player as Pedroia is (the growing pains and all), so it comes down to this.....do you want a good OBP player who handles the bat well hitting #2 behind Crawford, or do you want a lesser (again, per your expectations) hitter who profiles to have a little more speed and doesn't hit right handed? It's as simple as that. The answer is obvious, but I get the sense that you are going to continue waffling here rather than swallowing your pride and admitting what I'm sure everyone knows here, that it was an impulsive, not well thought out point.

 

You are seriously overselling your case here. That and the fact that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to come in here with a tone this hostile in the first place really combine to inflate the Jerk Quotient of your last few posts.

 

I can't tell you what to do but you may want to think about that.

 

I don't think either Kalish or Pedroia loses that much value if they bat 6th. Pedroia's a 2B with great contact skills and 15 HR power, he can hit well anywhere in the lineup out of the 3 and 4 hole. He's a good 2 hole hitter, but that doesn't mean there's nowhere else he could be productive and effective.

 

And taking nothing away from Pedroia, but let's not underestimate Kalish either. He's a great talent with a good eye and way more speed than Pedroia and a good bet for the top of the lineup -- down the road if not immediately. If he doesn't lead off or bat second at some point in his career it's because his power has developed enough to put him in the middle of the order. So let's not pretend what I'm proposing here is anything but a distinct possibility at some point this year.

[ORS]

You are seriously overselling your case here. That and the fact that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to come in here with a tone this hostile in the first place really combine to inflate the Jerk Quotient of your last few posts.

 

I can't tell you what to do but you may want to think about that.

There's no oversell. It's as simple as I stated. I'm sorry you put so little thought into what you post that you have all these contradictory dangling threads that don't tie together all that well. I'm only pointing them out, and in the process, I'm calling you out for your usual tactic here. Waffle, hedge, parse, modify mid stream, etc. There's no tone or hostility. It's honesty, and it's correct, and that is why you are now playing the victim card, and I see right through it.

 

There's nothing to think about for me, as I've already taken the time to do so before I post, so I'll decline your advice, but you might consider heeding it yourself. Thought rather than impulse might do you some good.

[Dojji]

Yay bombastic posturing.

 

Tell me, ORS, do you *actually* intend to offer anything else in this thread, or have you already thought it over and decided to be a complete pussy? Just curious cuz nothing you've put up so far is worth putting up with the nonsense and jerkitude so you could maybe save me some blood pressure and let me know to just put you on ignore for awhile.

[redsoxrules]

Dojji , your the one posting the non sense ,

batting Pedey 7th and Kalish 2nd does not making any sense

 

what's next ? Lars batting cleanup ?

[ORS]

Yay bombastic posturing.

 

Tell me, ORS, do you *actually* intend to offer anything else in this thread, or have you already thought it over and decided to be a complete pussy? Just curious cuz nothing you've put up so far is worth putting up with the nonsense and jerkitude so you could maybe save me some blood pressure and let me know to just put you on ignore for awhile.

That's rich, frothy even. I take whatever responses my posts ellicit without complaint. The pussy is the one bitching and moaning when he gets some negative feedback on a lame, lazy post. You are real piece of work.

[Dojji]

Dojji , your the one posting the non sense ,

batting Pedey 7th and Kalish 2nd does not making any sense

 

what's next ? Lars batting cleanup ?

 

Is it ideal? Hardly. But even with Kalish's reported reverse splits, putting 6 leftes in the lineup limits your options, and batting Pedroia and Youkilis in that order isn't smart under those circumstances.

 

Since I think Youks is the guy who needs to be hitting third next year for purely practical reasons, I'd rather load our best speed at the top of the order to set the table for him than treat *anyone* as if their place in the lineup is sacrosanct. Pedroia will be an asset no matter where he hits, there's no reason he has to bat second if it might make the team stronger if someone else did.

[Yaz Sideburn]

oh boy, now people are calling eachother pussies over who will bat 2nd "when" we acquire both adrian gonzalez and carl crawford this offseason. this thread went downhill fast