My take on 3 team race for two spots.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Given the fact that the Yankees are way up in the loss column you have to think they will claim one of the two spots. The Sox do have plenty of games with them and they seem to have some problems with Tampa..but we seem to split with the Yankees most times.

 

I have a strange feeling the Rays are going to fold like a cheap tent. Their pitching staff has been racing back to Earth. Wade Davis is tossing salad out there..he is being whipped pillar to post by every team he faces. Price is quickly approaching his career high 128 IP (120 going into tonight) and has been getting roughed up of late and he is getting raped by the MIGHTY Cleveland Guardians tonight. Matt Garza's June ERA was 6.83 and opponents hit .306! Garza has followed up his stellar June with an equally abysmal 6.19 July ERA. Shields should have been sent to the Minors after his horrific 7.67 June ERA and just to prove it wasn't a fluke, he has followed serve in July with a slick 5.47 ERA. Niemann has been their only consistent starter. The Rays offense is not very good. They still haven't found a good DH.. Burrell was an Epic fail as Joyce has also been. Upton is absolutely shameful and needs to be sent to the minors. Pena is hit or miss and is K'ing at an alarming rate..even for him. Bartlett is hovering around the Mendoza line and doesn't seem to have that spark he had when the Rays made their World Series run...which is probably why the Rays were in on the Yunel Escobar discussions.. Zobrist is solid..but nowhere near the slugger he was last year... Longoria is the only consistent threat and even he is slipping a little.

 

The Red Sox have stayed within striking distance despite all of the injuries. I am tired of talking about them..we all know who got hurt.. My point is we have HORSES like Lackey, Lester, Dice-K, Buc, and now Beckett back! We will be getting our offensive studs back one by one.. This kinda reminds me of a short track horse trying to win the Belmont.. The Rays sprinted out of the gate leaving even the Yankees in the rear view mirror... As the season has gone on, they are showing GLARING signs of slowing down. The Sox pitchers who were injured are now getting back into it with fresh legs and arms. Granted this is not the way I would have drawn it up..but all the injuries might actually have helped the Sox in that we have some fresh players coming back and the backups have gotten invaluable experience. When every game counts and the rosters expand allowing Tito to make more moves some of these guys are going to come up big because they got so much time during the season.

 

If all of our players come back healthy and we pick up a bullie arm and perhaps a hitter.. We are going to leave the Rays choking on our fumes and the Yankees worst fear will be realized. They do not want to see the Boston Red Sox in the Post-Season.

[db41]

Some interesting thoughts here Ed. You're right, the Yankees are in.

 

I think straight up, when healthy, Boston is better than the Rays. All beat up with no offense and no bullpen, the Sox lost three games by a total of four runs. Mostly healthy, the Sox swept them easily.

 

My concern really is not the Rays in particular, nor is it the injuries--it's the inattention to detail night after night and the consistent trance-like state our manager and coaches fall into. Ortiz getting picked off third last night was only the latest in unforgivable mental errors. We lack situational awareness beyond what is acceptable from many High School teams. There is no getting around a lack of urgency and baseball IQ.

 

The second point working against us is that Maddon is a better game manager than Tito. If it is a close race, we're screwed.

 

I think our only hope is that we get healthy quick, the starters get hot and hand the ball to Bard and Papelbon, and our offense continues to overachieve. Our talent will have to be three games better than the Rays to make up for our team's lack of baseball acumen.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Some interesting thoughts here Ed. You're right, the Yankees are in.

 

I think straight up, when healthy, Boston is better than the Rays. All beat up with no offense and no bullpen, the Sox lost three games by a total of four runs. Mostly healthy, the Sox swept them easily.

 

My concern really is not the Rays in particular, nor is it the injuries--it's the inattention to detail night after night and the consistent trance-like state our manager and coaches fall into. Ortiz getting picked off third last night was only the latest in unforgivable mental errors. We lack situational awareness beyond what is acceptable from many High School teams. There is no getting around a lack of urgency and baseball IQ.

 

The second point working against us is that Maddon is a better game manager than Tito. If it is a close race, we're screwed.

 

I think our only hope is that we get healthy quick, the starters get hot and hand the ball to Bard and Papelbon, and our offense continues to overachieve. Our talent will have to be three games better than the Rays to make up for our team's lack of baseball acumen.

 

Stellar post. I agree to some extent about the players and mental errors. Ortiz and Bogar must have been out late the night before and missed the free Starbucks the Mariners supply at Safeco...what a shameful display. I think Tito however has done pretty good this year with the hand he has been dealt. Besides the injuries we have moaned about ad nauseum, he has had to deal with players crying about playing time when he really had no other choice but to bench Lowell and Papi (for a few) and send Wakes back to the pen. He has stolen a few games for us inserting the proper AAAA players we have at the right times eg McDonald, Nava, and Patterson to a lesser extent. I really feel if the Sox make the post-season he should get serious consideration for manager of the year. I think Martinez will be back in Angels series and Pedroia and Ellsbury will not be far behind.. A sweep of Seattle would be really nice...and I expect it.

[db41]

Stellar post. I agree to some extent about the players and mental errors. Ortiz and Bogar must have been out late the night before and missed the free Starbucks the Mariners supply at Safeco...what a shameful display. I think Tito however has done pretty good this year with the hand he has been dealt. Besides the injuries we have moaned about ad nauseum' date=' he has had to deal with players crying about playing time when he really had no other choice but to bench Lowell and Papi (for a few) and send Wakes back to the pen. He has stolen a few games for us inserting the proper AAAA players we have at the right times eg McDonald, Nava, and Patterson to a lesser extent. I really feel if the Sox make the post-season he should get serious consideration for manager of the year. I think Martinez will be back in Angels series and Pedroia and Ellsbury will not be far behind.. A sweep of Seattle would be really nice...and I expect it.[/quote']

We disagree about Tito. Though, I will give you this-- he's a players manager with no memory of what you failed to do the night before. He lets his horses run.

 

However, he does not foster a culture where attending to the "little things" is emphasized. I could rehash the entire list of mistakes we've made in the last month but I'd still be writing an hour from now and its game time.

 

Try this, watch the game with a notebook and write down every fundamental mistake we make. In a week, you'll have a list that will amaze your friends.

[Palodios]

A few things

1) Until the trade deadline passes, its going to be hard to say, because both of these teams are heavy in trade rumors. If the Sox can get help in the bullpen, or if the Rays can get a big bat, filling those holes helps the team out to a huge extent.

2)Buchholz has ALREADY reached his highest season IP, so he's just as likely to fall apart as Price.

3)Bogar has been making horrible mistakes all season. As much as I want him gone, I doubt they'll do what's best for the team.

[Spudboy]

I'm not sure exactly, but Buch had 90-110 IP in Pawtucket plus his 92 in Boston.

 

 

99 in Pawtucket, 92 in Boston.

[TedWilliams101]

I still don't get this "players manager" BS. Players respect managers/coaches that actually stick to their ideals and do the intelligent thing, even if it is an uneasy decision. I know I'm probably going to get a ton of crap for using this example, but just look at Belichick. Sure, he probably does have some enemies, but his players have a TON of respect for him because he puts winning ahead of EVERYTHING. A benched player might not be happy for the decision, but they still respect the coach and stand behind him, realizing it was for the best of the team.

 

I look at coaching like a science, there's not that much gray, either is the right decision or it's the wrong decision. Letting emotions and friendships get in the way only leads to problems and mistakes.

[Palodios]

That being said, Tito has had to deal with so much garbage this year. 3 of their 4 outfielders, 3 of their 5 starting pitchers, their organization's top 4 catchers, the team's emotional leader, and the team's captain have all been on the DL. Throw in 4 veterans with significantly reduced playing time who bitch and whine every chance they get, and one of the worst bullpens in the league. The sole fact that this team is still in contention probably has to do a little bit with how he's managing the team.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tito is going to win manager of the yr and he should. His in game managing skills blow. He has faith in players well past the point of faith for most fans. But he inspires confidence in his role players so that they can play beyond their means when called upon. I always found that fascinating about Tito. You bring a scrub up and most of the time, they are able to give a more than standard effort for the sox in their time in the bigs. That is Tito's gift and that one gift has kept the sox in this thing for so long.

 

The sox are 1 game under .500 over the last month, while the Rays are 7 games over, and the Yanks are 7 games over. That's a 4 game swing in the standings. Currently, the sox sit 8 games out in the L column of the Yanks and 5 games out in the L column from the Rays. The division is not gonna happen barring a miracle. And, if the returning players have any adjustment periods or slumps, the sox are dead. I think the original poster underestimates the Rays. They've played to 7 games over without two of their most reliable pitchers. Garza and Shields are gonna find it, they always do. Once those guys find it, they are gonna go on a run, which is why I wont write off the division just yet from a Yankee-Ray perspective.

 

Regardless, this has been a spirited effort from a team that is stuck in the most grinding division in baseball. If they were completely healthy, I think they were still the odd men looking out. With their current deficit and their injuries, I find it hard to believe they go to the playoffs.

[Palodios]

I always found that fascinating about Tito. You bring a scrub up and most of the time, they are able to give a more than standard effort for the sox in their time in the bigs.

 

I like this quote a lot. Its pretty much their slogan for this whole season. I'd sig it it I didn't prefer my Paul Simon.

 

 

The division is not gonna happen barring a miracle. And, if the returning players have any adjustment periods or slumps, the sox are dead.

 

They're four games out of the wc. One series sweep of the Rays by any team(not even the Sox) will get them back in immediately. And the thing about adjustment periods/slumps is that there is no way in hell VMart hits any worse than Cash/Molina, Pedroia over Patterson, Ellsbury over McDonald, Buchholz over Wake. The only returning player that you can look at and seriously believe they will play worse than their replacement is Beckett, but his start looked promising. MDC will likely be swapped with Bowden soon enough for him to figure out his pitching again. The lineup last night trotted out Cash/Lowrie/Patterson/McDonald-- those are not guys that are difficult to improve over.

[example1]

The WC is a challenge, but definitely not impossible. I imagine the Rays and Yankees are both impressed that the Sox have been able to remain this close with so many injuries. Palodios is right, they are still within striking distance. I would argue they are within striking distance of the Yankees, though I think the Yankees are clearly the better and healthier team moving forward.

[db41]

How's that "list" going Jim Ed. The 8th inning should have given you tons of material for your notebook.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Tito is going to win manager of the yr and he should. His in game managing skills blow. He has faith in players well past the point of faith for most fans. But he inspires confidence in his role players so that they can play beyond their means when called upon. I always found that fascinating about Tito. You bring a scrub up and most of the time, they are able to give a more than standard effort for the sox in their time in the bigs. That is Tito's gift and that one gift has kept the sox in this thing for so long.

 

The sox are 1 game under .500 over the last month, while the Rays are 7 games over, and the Yanks are 7 games over. That's a 4 game swing in the standings. Currently, the sox sit 8 games out in the L column of the Yanks and 5 games out in the L column from the Rays. The division is not gonna happen barring a miracle. And, if the returning players have any adjustment periods or slumps, the sox are dead. I think the original poster underestimates the Rays. They've played to 7 games over without two of their most reliable pitchers. Garza and Shields are gonna find it, they always do. Once those guys find it, they are gonna go on a run, which is why I wont write off the division just yet from a Yankee-Ray perspective.

 

Regardless, this has been a spirited effort from a team that is stuck in the most grinding division in baseball. If they were completely healthy, I think they were still the odd men looking out. With their current deficit and their injuries, I find it hard to believe they go to the playoffs.

 

Really? I think the Red Sox..healthy..are better than the Yankees. I think they have a better rotation, lineup(from 1-9), bench, AND defense.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Youkilis

Martinez

Beltre

Drew

Cameron

Scutaro

 

is > than

 

Jeter

Swisher

Tex

Arod

Cano

Posada

Gardener

Granderson and is .200ish OBP(dude fuggin sucks)

Colin Curtis/Watson/Thames

 

The Red Sox were leading in runs scored with a bunch of AAAA players playing major roles.. What makes you think a completely HEALTHY Sox lineup would not be even better? The Red Sox have not had their lineup healthy at one time for this entire season. Ellsbury would f***ing wreak havock on rag arm Posada..it would be funny to watch...and if you DH him than you have to start Cervelli and his .683 OPS further weakening an inferior lineup. If the Yankees lineup is better, how is it possible that the MASH unit the Red Sox have thrown out there was able to lead the Majors in runs scored for most of the year???

 

Lester(best pitcher in A.L.)> than CC

Beckett> Burnett (always has been)

Buchholz = Hughes

Lackey

Dice-K>than Vazquez...Look at their AL numbers..it is not even close.. Dice-K is much better.

 

The only advantage I give the Yankees is the Pen.....and barely.. Mo is the best closer... but Bard and Paps>than Joba.. Bard has been the best of all of them this year..but Mo is still automatic.

 

So jacksonian..unlike some on this board..I see right through your tired, condescending act..it is always the same.. You give a small compliment to Sox (This time to Tito) but what you are really doing is laughing at the scrubs the Sox have out there...simply delighting in it....biding your time for your BIG finish...Then you get down to what you really want to say which is the Sox had no business being in the discussion even if they were healthy... Go f*** yourself..seriously.. I am so sick of your s*** and cannot believe these mods don't see through it. You are a low-life, vile, Yankee piece of s***. Keep gloating about it.. and the Yankees will keep spending $200 million-plus so you can sit there with your air of superiority and take your little pop shots at the Sox and their fans.

[SCM33]

My take is that there is not a three team race, unless you are talking about the bottom of the AL East...you know---->Boston, Toronto and Baltimore.

[JimEdHOF2009]

My take is that there is not a three team race' date=' unless you are talking about the bottom of the AL East...you know---->Boston, Toronto and Baltimore.[/quote']

 

HAHAHHAHAH! That made me LOL! Thanks man. It's been a tough week.

[ORS]

Really? I think the Red Sox..healthy..are better than the Yankees. I think they have a better rotation, lineup(from 1-9), bench, AND defense.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Youkilis

Martinez

Beltre

Drew

Cameron

Scutaro

 

is > than

 

Jeter

Swisher

Tex

Arod

Cano

Posada

Gardener

Granderson and is .200ish OBP(dude fuggin sucks)

Colin Curtis/Watson/Thames

 

The Red Sox were leading in runs scored with a bunch of AAAA players playing major roles.. What makes you think a completely HEALTHY Sox lineup would not be even better? The Red Sox have not had their lineup healthy at one time for this entire season. Ellsbury would f***ing wreak havock on rag arm Posada..it would be funny to watch...and if you DH him than you have to start Cervelli and his .683 OPS further weakening an inferior lineup. If the Yankees lineup is better, how is it possible that the MASH unit the Red Sox have thrown out there was able to lead the Majors in runs scored for most of the year???

 

Lester(best pitcher in A.L.)> than CC

Beckett> Burnett (always has been)

Buchholz = Hughes

Lackey

Dice-K>than Vazquez...Look at their AL numbers..it is not even close.. Dice-K is much better.

 

The only advantage I give the Yankees is the Pen.....and barely.. Mo is the best closer... but Bard and Paps>than Joba.. Bard has been the best of all of them this year..but Mo is still automatic.

 

So jacksonian..unlike some on this board..I see right through your tired, condescending act..it is always the same.. You give a small compliment to Sox (This time to Tito) but what you are really doing is laughing at the scrubs the Sox have out there...simply delighting in it. Then you get down to what you really want to say which is the Sox had no business being in the discussion even if they were healthy... Go f*** yourself..seriously.. I am so sick of your s*** and cannot believe these mods don't see through it. You are a low-life, vile, Yankee piece of s***. Keep gloating about it.. and the Yankees will keep spending $200 million-plus so you can sit there with your air of superiority and take your little pop shots at the Sox and their fans.

To the part in bold, I think, for the most part, everyone sees the same thing you see. For the rest, I agree.

[Dipre]

To the part in bold' date=' I think, for the most part, everyone sees the same thing you see. For the rest, I agree.[/quote']

 

I think he's speaking about a couple posters in particular.

 

As for the rest of JimEd's post, it's the only reason he posts on this site.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes of course the sox are better than the Yankees when they are healthy. LOL. Dude, you're 9 games back in the L column and cannot regularly beat the schleps of the league, let alone the good teams. Great teams take care of business against bad teams. The sox are proving this yr, be it health or other reasons, that they are not a great team. In April, the sox were missing one starter (Ellsbury) and they limped out of the gate. The sox were 7 games over .500 without Ellsbury and losing Beckett halfway through May. The fact of the matter is, that even when healthy, the sox just dont do what a championship caliber club does. And that is, beat the hell out of bad teams and play .500 or better ball vs the good teams. That is the blueprint for success in the regular season.

 

So tell me, are the sox a better team even without VMart, Pedroia and Ellsbury, than the A's and the Mariners? Well, they're 3-4 against them

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Well obviously we're not a better team when were missing some key players. You know our line up is better than yours. I don't know why your bringing up the loss column again. Casual yankees fans must brag about EVERYTHING.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well obviously we're not a better team when were missing some key players. You know our line up is better than yours. I don't know why your bringing up the loss column again. Casual yankees fans must brag about EVERYTHING.

 

I disagree on the lineup thing. You guys have lost some time for your players, but we have 2 MVP caliber offensive players who played average to above average through 3 months. This month, they're hitting like MVP caliber players. If those guys are hitting like that, then the sox cannot match it. If they revert to the quasi suck they were mired in before this hot streak, then I would agree. As much as your injuries hurt, our slow start has hurt us. Jeter was hitting .260 for awhile, Tex was at the Mendoza line and Arod dipped into the .260's.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Yeah i didn't pay attention at all to your post. This is a red sox forum so obviously almost everyone is going to say we have a better line up. If i was a yankees fan(thank god I'm not) I'd still say Red Sox have a better line up. I can careless that your a Yankees fan but you got to admit when your wrong.

[jacksonianmarch]

I see, so rational thought doesnt phase you. Here, wear this...

 

http://blog.masslive.com/redsoxmonster/2008/07/medium_pinkhat.jpg

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

LOL jacksonianmarch trying to be funny and fails. If it helps the only reason people wear the Yankees hat is because Jay-z wears them.

[jacksonianmarch]

I see. Well, have a good night. Remember to take your nightly Haldol for your delusions and if the voices return, remember to come back to the hospital

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Fail number 2. Don't come back with another or you might strike out.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, if you are the one dishing out the fails, then maybe I should be flattered? You made a post. I countered it. Then you made a retort acknowledging that you didnt read my post. I could have agreed with you. I could have given you a different take. I could have told you that I was shedding my Yankee fandom for a membership with the long suffering Pittsburgh Pirates. You dont know, you didnt read it. Hence, how can we have a useful conversation about my post when it wasnt read. So, therefore, the point is moot here.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Well you started the argument and i jumped in. So I countered it not you. You wouldn't listen no matter what so this debate would go no where.