Boston needs a new stadium

[jacksonianmarch]

I know, I know, this has been hashed and re-hashed for the past decade, but it is time to bring it up again.

 

I went to the new Yankees Stadium a week ago for the first time. Now, I remember the old Yankee Stadium, full of nostalgia, but seats were too small, your feet stuck to the floor and there wasnt much to see prior to the game if you couldnt get into monument park. Well, the new stadium is a f***ing palace. You walk in and it is truly like a Roman Cathedral with Yankee greats hanging from the rafters. There's food and drink at every turn AND they had a bathroom attendant who kept s*** clean. There's a Yankee museum that is free to the public, AND the seats are built for 2010 asses. Also, they shaded in the worst seats (which was all I could afford at that time) with the wind blowing air into the upper deck of the stadium. It was incredible, EXACTLY how the game is meant to be watched. I literally had the WORST seats in the house, upper deck, third base side, last seat in the row. And it was amazing. Now, I have been a fan in Fenway many times. The concourses are meh, there isnt much in the way of entertainment prior to or after the games, and the seats f***ing suck. Fenway isnt just bad if you are overweight, it is also bad if you are tall as your knees are invariably stuck into the shoulderblades of the guy in front of you. Not to mention the seats being off kilter in terms of viewing and dont get me started on the multiple obstructed views.

 

Every single person benefits from a new Red Sox stadium. The sox can actually charge MORE for their games. They can get extra revenue from a bigger park, they can add in luxury boxes, which are exempt from revenue sharing. AND, the fans will enjoy the game a bit more in a bit more comfort and it can be an event instead of just the game. I felt like I was at a full on Yankee experience, not just a game. The sox need to do it.

[whitesox901]

Great post!

[db41]

No. No. No. No. No.

 

There are so many things that bother me about your post that I'm struggling with what to address first. In no particular order:

 

"Pregame entertainment" at a baseball game is called batting practice.

 

The stadium you are referring to as "palatial" could also be described as a monument to greed, self-aggrandizement, and arrogance. It certainly wasn't built with the game of Baseball in mind. The "wind" you are talking about is also why the place plays small and why my five year old son could hit one out to right center if he really go a hold of one.

 

The "history" and "tradition" of the "classy" Yankee franchise and of Old Yankee Stadium was torn down without a second thought. The spirits and the voices of the people and players who lived and played there, watched and cheered, are gone forever. No smarmy museum will ever replace the "place." I don't need to go into an air-conditioned "museum" with glass and stainless steel and lights everywhere, drinking a mint julip, telling myself how great I am being a "fan" of the most storied baseball team in history. It makes me want to puke.

 

Give me a hot dog and a beer (or two, or three) and crowd of people who are crammed into an amazing ballpark-- all watching the game. That's why you go to the park-- to watch the game. In Fenway, every person in there is watching and reacting to every pitch-- there is a "buzz." Half of your "luxury" seats are empty b/c no one wants to pay that amount of money to watch A-Rod do something embarrassing.

 

There are ways to improve the viewing experience at Fenway Park w/o tearing it down, this current ownership has proven that w/o sacrificing the most sacred elements Baseball-- history and tradition. Is there still work to do? Yes, of course. Tear down Fenway Park? No. Never.

[DirtDog]

Because if there's one thing the Red Sox need, is to be more like the Yankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

So, tell me this....

 

Are you, as a fan, more comfortable sitting in the new Yankee stadium or in Fenway?

 

Also, you dont want the sox to be more like the Yankees? They are already like the Yankees' little brother. The sox have taken their own spin on things lately with their farm development, but their payroll skyrocketed to keep up. Why not create a Boston palace?

 

And, YS is a testament to greed? Dude, it is a business, ALL OWNERS ARE GREEDY. Actually, I think over the past decade, Steinbrenner had been the LEAST GREEDY owner when it comes to his own finances. He was losing money when our payroll skyrocketed.

[jacksonianmarch]

No. No. No. No. No.

 

There are so many things that bother me about your post that I'm struggling with what to address first. In no particular order:

 

"Pregame entertainment" at a baseball game is called batting practice.

 

 

Yes, batting practice is nice, but seriously, it's batting practice. You said you were in the minor leagues, after seeing all that BP, do you really want to see more? Instead, what about going to a museum filled with all your Red Sox paraphenalia and history? I am not saying go grab a drink and hobnob at NY Steak (although you can if you want to).

 

The stadium you are referring to as "palatial" could also be described as a monument to greed, self-aggrandizement, and arrogance. It certainly wasn't built with the game of Baseball in mind.

 

Have you ever been there? If you havent, then you are talking out of your ass. And, see my comment above about the greed aspect. Your comment above speaks more to your naivete than anything else

 

The "wind" you are talking about is also why the place plays small and why my five year old son could hit one out to right center if he really go a hold of one.

 

And having a large green wall 340 feet away in LCF isnt any different? I know the deal, hell, I put one over that wall

 

The "history" and "tradition" of the "classy" Yankee franchise and of Old Yankee Stadium was torn down without a second thought. The spirits and the voices of the people and players who lived and played there, watched and cheered, are gone forever.

 

Dude, you need help. You heard voices in the other yankee stadium? Might be time for some Haldol. Regardless, it was a place that had some ridiculous history. Torn down, just like a lot of older buildings. And, lacking the "voices" didnt seem to phase them as they won it in 2009

 

No smarmy museum will ever replace the "place." I don't need to go into an air-conditioned "museum" with glass and stainless steel and lights everywhere, drinking a mint julip, telling myself how great I am being a "fan" of the most storied baseball team in history. It makes me want to puke.

 

See, this makes me think you are just going to bash anything about the Yankees. This is an irrational post. Sometimes, you need to take good ideas from your enemies to make things better.

 

Give me a hot dog and a beer (or two, or three) and crowd of people who are crammed into an amazing ballpark-- all watching the game. That's why you go to the park-- to watch the game. In Fenway, every person in there is watching and reacting to every pitch-- there is a "buzz." Half of your "luxury" seats are empty b/c no one wants to pay that amount of money to watch A-Rod do something embarrassing.

 

I had a hot dog, I had about 4 beers, and EVERYONE around me was into the game. Also, not luxury seats, genius, luxury BOXES. They are how your team actually makes money outside of revenue sharing.

 

There are ways to improve the viewing experience at Fenway Park w/o tearing it down, this current ownership has proven that w/o sacrificing the most sacred elements Baseball-- history and tradition. Is there still work to do? Yes, of course. Tear down Fenway Park? No. Never.

 

The sox improved the viewing experience FOR THE MOST EXPENSIVE SEATS. This is what you are missing there captain, the guys who pay 25 bucks for a ticket and sit far away cannot see the game and are cramped into a tiny seat.

 

Regardless, you can try and make a post about the history and all, but you dont have to bash what the Yankees did. The stadium is definitely a massive revenue generator, but their stadium definitely had the fans in mind.

[YAZMAN]

I know........

 

We know as well, you could stop here on just about any post!:harhar:

 

We need a new stadium about as much as we need your new ticket prices.

[yeszir]

False false false false false

[Palodios]

Until there are structural issues with the park, its going to stay open. Until we get out of a recession, the park is going to stay open. Until fans actually want a new stadium(ie, stop selling out every game), Fenway is going to stay open.

[Dojji]

Yes.

 

We do.

 

But we will deny it, because at this point Fenway's like a member of the family. You don't throw members of the family out on the street just because they're no longer flashy and handsome, develop a tendency to natter on for hours and hours about things that happened 45 years ago, and start to lose their hearing and pick up a few eccentric habits. you only move them to the retirement home when they demonstrate a clear inability to care for themselves -- and as old as Fenway is, it's still an economically viable ballpark as long as a team is willing to own it and fans are willing to pay to go there.

 

But ultimately, we DO need a new stadium. I'd like to find a way to keep baseball in some form in Fenway Park, but the Sox need to stay competitive and Fenway won't allow them to do that past a certain point.

[bsox0407]

When you go to Fenway Park are you really going to care if the seats are tight. When i go to Fenway it is a family feel. When i go to Fenway all I care about is the game. Who care about the Museum. I don't need to see fancy pictures and monuments to see the Sox History because as a Sox fan it is burned into our memories. I have been to 22 stadiums. Wrigley and Fenway have best feel for a game. With people being closer together it brings the people together. It may be a little uncomfortable for the Overweight but Fenway is Boston, Fenway is the Red Sox. Plus Yankee Stadium was falling apart.

[italstallianion]

I think that the Red Sox will eventually need a new stadium, but that they certainly do not currently need a new stadium.

[jacksonianmarch]

Have you ever been into the guts of the stadium? I was back in 1999, and it looked like it was falling apart then. I know they renovated a bunch of things, but I doubt the stadium is sound enough for this to be a backburner issue for the next 20 yrs.

 

Plus, who cares about comfort? Do you really like sitting cramped for a game? That's just dumb

[redsoxrules]

They should build a new one to fit over 50,000 fans . they would have no problem selling out . would also create more revenu .

[CoachC.]

So, lose some f***ing weight.

 

Try having a salad or grilled chicken instead of the #5 combo meal at McDonalds.

[redsoxrules]

LOL

[Spudboy]

This subject has been discussed several times on Talksox in the last 12-15 months.

 

Bottom line: Fenway is and antiquated, crumbling dump. This is not a Sox vs. Yankee issue. It's an economic and political issue.

 

Those that have attended 100's of games over the last 40 years and/or live in the Boston area know this.

[italstallianion]

Have you ever been into the guts of the stadium? I was back in 1999, and it looked like it was falling apart then. I know they renovated a bunch of things, but I doubt the stadium is sound enough for this to be a backburner issue for the next 20 yrs.

 

Plus, who cares about comfort? Do you really like sitting cramped for a game? That's just dumb

 

 

 

 

I have been to Fenway and Old Yankee Stadium (henceforth referred to as OYS) my fair share of times, and I don't think it has the same causes for concern that the OYS had. Granted, I'm sure that my bias is playing a factor, but my experiences at Fenway and the OYS were very different. First, the entire OYS reeked of urine. I swear to god, the pathways, the seats, everything. Also, there wasn't a food vendor in sight in the upper deck. The only "refreshment" being served was $8 cans of lukewarm Coors Light.

 

While I felt that the OYS wasn't very comfortable, I think that it could have lasted awhile longer. In other words, I don't think it was worth tearing down all of that history in order to make the ballpark even more "executive" or "holier than thou" than it already is. I felt that the tradition and history alone could have kept the ballpark running for awhile.

 

I feel similarly about Fenway. While I don't notice the urine smell that permeated the entire OYS, and while I find the seating better at Fenway (all the food makes its way around), I think that Fenway should still be in use for years to come. I think it's fine structurally as the renovations have brought it up a notch, and while the seating could be improved, that the experience at Fenway is worth the temporary discomfort.

 

 

Basically, my point is that Fenway should last awhile longer, but the Red Sox will eventually need a new ballpark. We know that Fenway can't last forever, but I don't feel that there's a good reason to tear it down soon and build another ballpark. Plus I'm sure that the last thing the country needs is to fund more money for the creation of another new ballpark.

[Dojji]

When you go to Fenway Park are you really going to care if the seats are tight.

 

I'm sorry, but yes. Yes I am. I have the misfortune to be one of those people who are not only unusually tall (6'6") as well as broad shouldered and big-framed, but also have their set point needle stuck somwhere around "Goodyear Blimp" on the dial. I am, no mistake about it, huge, and as a result have trouble sitting through an hour long flight in seating designed in 1970. Fenway's seating is designed for people literally a third or less my size. Sitting in that park is not uncomfrotable so much as cripplingly painful. Even if I was as trim and svelte as I'd like to believe I am (for my height and build, doctor says I should get myself down to about 270 pounds) , I'd still have a hard time walking out of that ballpark.

 

If I'm a paying customer, I have a right to expect that my comfort is important. The idea that my comfort is NOT important, that it is I who should accomodate the ballpark rather than the other way around.. well if I'm paying for the privelege I really resent it.

 

I recognize that Fenway's a lot bigger than I am, but I won't be attending a baseball game in Fenway with the way the seats are right now. I have no chance, none at all.

[italstallianion]

The one thing I hate is how the seats face the wrong way in the right field seats. After a game I have to gradually tweak my neck the other way.

[yeszir]

When Fenway dies, so does the beating heart of Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

So, lose some f***ing weight.

 

Try having a salad or grilled chicken instead of the #5 combo meal at McDonalds.

 

It isnt the weight issue as much as it is the height issue. Should I cut off some inches?

[VA Sox Fan]

It isnt the weight issue as much as it is the height issue. Should I cut off some inches?

 

No, but you should know better than to start a NEW thread when there are already about 50-100 on the issue. I know it takes too long to look for them as they died a long, long time ago.

 

Glad you enjoyed the new NYY stadium.

 

Next time, start a new thread about racism/Boston and the Red Sox and/or Boston teams. Quite a timely subject as well.

[Keeper]

Wow, Jacko can't win no matter what he posts. Not saying I agree with him on Fenway, but all of his points are valid.

[example1]

All in all the Red Sox would benefit from a new stadium. As fans we would benefit from increased comfort and better views. As a franchise they would probably make more money with increased seating and possibly ticket prices (gulp).

 

The nice thing about Fenway being such a mecca is that any new park will have to be so phenomenal that it will keep the fans who are in love with Fenway currently. As the Yankees have done, 'm confident that this ownership group (and any worthy owners) would do it up right and make it both familiar and more comfortable. The additions they have done already have been really nice and in keeping with the feel of the old ballpark. I imagine they could build something pretty cool.

 

At the same time, there's no real way to do it in Fenway's current location so I completely understand why they've done everything they can to improve the current space. That move will represent a huge culture shift for this team in particular and the group that does it will have to have huge balls to pull the trigger. Or God has to collapse the old park in the offseason when nobody is there.

[db41]

No' date=' but you should know better than to start a NEW thread when there are already about 50-100 on the issue. I know it takes too long to look for them as they died a long, long time ago.[/quote']

 

I'm fine with any thread that allows me the opportunity to rip the Yankees; I take my hatred seriously.:angry:

[johnnybananas]

When you go to see the Red sox you immediatley think of fenway its history. Just because the nyy want to build a new stadium doesn't mean we need to follow fenway is the greatest stadium of all time. When you sit in fenway you feel many years of history and the numerous amounts of hall of fame players. You and everyone in are one cheering for one thing the sox to win. Fenway will never be replaced.

[db41]

Johnny B steps to the plate and lines a clean single to right.

[BSN07]

Nice post Jacko. It probably would have had better response's if it wasn't coming from you. You raise good points. but with all the money the current ownership group has dumped into giving Fenway a face lift over the last few years, I don't see them wanting to spring for a brand new stadium anytime soon.

 

That said, I don't think they would go the billion dollar route the Yankees took. I'd look at Minnesota's new ball park as more of a comparison. that ball park is beautiful without having gone completely overboard(like that yankees did, not saying it's not a beautiful park because it is, but it's a little over the top, just like in Dallas).

 

I also don't think they need to make a 50K+ seat stadium. I'd go 45,000 max and maybe have some standing room areas through out the park.

 

Also any new ball park built from now on for any team should be required to have a retractable roof. Be so nice to just be done with rain delays and cancellations all together. the technology is there and it is good. And all in all it doesn't severely tip the budget when adding one in. Just my thoughts on the matter

[jacksonianmarch]

A retractable roof adds about 150-200 million. Also, Yankee Stadium definitely seems to cram in a lot of wealth, but I have to think the real estate was a massive cost too. As it would be for Boston.

 

The sox would make a f***ing killing if they did what the Patriots did. Create an entire plaza with enough parking for the masses in a suburb of Boston. They would need support from the MBTA to create a line that went out there as well. But it would be a f***ing gold mine for them.