Bunting to break up a perfect game

[YeAuldBroade]

What the hell? You're going off on people you don't even know because their opinion differs. Its an argument that's completely based off of opinion.

No I'm not. It's not an opinion in baseball, that's the problem here, you're not understanding the simple concept that this is a REAL RULE that is never broken because of respect and tradition. You're trying turning it into an opinion because you don't understand the respect and tradition. Still pissed.

[YeAuldBroade]

Fine, try telling a father who spent $200 to take his entire family a ballgame that his team didn't try to bunt to get on base when the score was 3-0 in the 8th cause the other team's pitcher had a no-hitter going.

 

Try being the owner of a team and wondering why your prized free agent who you're paying $18 mil a year to win games refused to bunt to get on base in that game because there are "unwritten rules" that were determined by players decades ago who worked multiple jobs in addition to being ball players.

You are guaranteed a seat for your ticket not a victory and I'd have no problem explaining that to anyone.

 

Double horseshit.

[YeAuldBroade]

Unfortunately, due to the direction this thread has taken, I feel the need to qualify all of this with, 'in my opinion', even though that should go without saying. But hey, I'm sitting at my computer, under the age of 30, with my pink hat pulled tightly over my head, so what do I know...

You're choosing to make it an opinion. It's just an error but I'm glad to see you're beginning to understand that you really don't know.

[Flynnatic10]

Is it legal? YES

Is it the smart thing to do? NO

 

its part of the game

[yankees228]

No it doesn't.

 

You haven't provided tangible proof of a guy winning by five-six runs with a no-hitter going and a single bunt signifying an offensive outburst against that specific guy. You named a conondrum of variables that would have to happen for the bunt to be the catalyst of the other team's rally, such as the guy being taken out afterwards and the other team scoring such a number of runs against the bullpen. In this case, the bunt is not directly responsible for the offensive outburst anyway, because there would have to be a number of other things involved for the amount of runs to be scored.

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think I need to provide a specific example. I think teams should do what it takes to win, as long as it's within the rules. Getting on base, whether it's a line drive single, a bunt, or a walk, increases that team's chances of winning.

[yankees228]

You're choosing to make it an opinion. It's just an error but I'm glad to see you're beginning to understand that you really don't know.

 

If you want to treat your stance as fact, that's your prerogative. I don't see it that way.

[YeAuldBroade]

So' date=' you expect a team to just lay down and let a team finish off the no hitter or perfect game?[/quote']

Now you're saying anything to try to prove that no honor, no respect, steroid use, anything for a victory are all that matters.

 

NO!!! you expect the team to square its shoulders, bear down and try to get a real hit. To try to beat the pitcher that's having the game of his life with your best. Why is this so f***ing difficult to understand? I understood it day one as a child. Why is honor and respect such difficult concepts for kids today?

[Dipre]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think I need to provide a specific example. I think teams should do what it takes to win' date=' as long as it's within the rules. Getting on base, whether it's a line drive single, a bunt, or a walk, increases that team's chances of winning.[/quote']

 

Agree to disagree then. I think teams should do whatever it takes to win as well, but a bunt when losing by five or six runs won't be the difference between winning or losing. I don't believe you have to provide a specfic example. I think you can't.

[YeAuldBroade]

Comparing a bunt single attempt with steroid use?

Makes perfect sense and we've already heard it here, it's all part of the new "win at any cost" generation. Ignore the game, the tradition, pride, honor, respect, your health... just win.

[yankees228]

What is considered a 'real hit' is entirely subjective. Any hit, whether it be a bunt, infield dribbler, line drive single, or home run is a 'real hit' in my opinion.

[Dipre]

What is considered a 'real hit' is entirely subjective. Any hit' date=' whether it be a bunt, infield dribbler, line drive single, or home run is a 'real hit' in my opinion.[/quote']

 

This is, however, correct.

[YeAuldBroade]

I don't see the need to get personal over this particular debate.

Because it's obviously about a lot more than one unwritten (which is a lousy way to say it) rule, it's about the mindset of (seemingly) an entire generation that is positively disturbing.

[ORS]

I've stated this a million times' date=' [b']who the hell cares about unwritten rules[/b] as long as they aren't showing up a team or injuring a team.

In this case, many people do, you just aren't one of them. Move on, you aren't changing anyone's mind.

[yankees228]

Because it's obviously about a lot more than one unwritten (which is a lousy way to say it) rule' date=' it's about the mindset of (seemingly) an entire generation that is positively disturbing.[/quote']

 

You're making this into a much bigger thing that it really is.

[ORS]

Comparing a bunt single attempt with steroid use? When's the congressional hearing with Jacoby Ellsbury, Carl Crawford and Juan Pierre gonna happen?

It isn't, and I didn't compare them. I pointed to the slippery slope where using the defense of "whatever it takes" can lead. Once you start down that path, it, like this discussion, is a matter of opinion where it ends.

[YeAuldBroade]

You're making this into a much bigger thing that it really is.

Nope, re-read this thread. I was behind and had to read from the 3rd page on. Anything to win, screw honor, tradition, history, respect, pride... just win. No one from my generation even thought that way but it appears all the kids here do. I think that's a pretty big and serious issue.

[BoSox21]

You are guaranteed a seat for your ticket not a victory and I'd have no problem explaining that to anyone.

 

Double horseshit.

 

If I buy a ticket, I'm expecting my team to try and win the game. Sue me.

 

Makes perfect sense and we've already heard it here' date=' it's all part of the new "win at any cost" generation. Ignore the game, the tradition, pride, honor, respect, your health... just win.[/quote']

 

To me, respecting the game, its tradition and having respect for the game and your opponent means giving the best of your ability. If the other pitcher still no-hits you, then you can at least say "Well, he got my best and still made history. Good for him."

 

Today's game has the best athletes the game has ever seen and I don't have the statistics off-hand but I'd imagine bunt singles are as common now as they've ever been. They're a part of the game.

And enough with labeling all the people who share my opinion as "win at any cost" people implying that we're all for people cheating to try and win as well. I very clearly stated that I'm all for players doing what they can within the rules to win a game.

[schillingouttheks]

Reminds me of Randy Winn breaking up Wakefield's no hitter in the 9th down in Tampa 9 years ago. That sucked. Same with Batista breaking up Lowe's no-hit bid in his first start in early 2002 (right after Nomo's no-no) with a dribbler up the third-base line.

[YeAuldBroade]

If I buy a ticket, I'm expecting my team to try and win the game. Sue me.

 

 

 

To me, respecting the game, its tradition and having respect for the game and your opponent means giving the best of your ability. If the other pitcher still no-hits you, then you can at least say "Well, he got my best and still made history. Good for him."

 

And enough with labeling all the people who share my opinion as "win at any cost" people implying that we're all for people cheating to try and win as well. I very clearly stated that I'm all for players doing what they can within the rules to win a game.

A s*** bunt when the fielders are back protecting against a real hit - because no one bunts in a no-hitter, isn't giving the best of your ability - it's about one hiccup from cheating.

 

And I won't stop saying the "win at any cost" generation until someone here proves me wrong but with each post you keep proving the label more and more correct.

[BoSox21]

It isn't' date=' and I didn't compare them. I pointed to the slippery slope where using the defense of "whatever it takes" can lead. Once you start down that path, it, like this discussion, is a matter of opinion where it ends.[/quote']

 

It really isn't though. Cause it ends where the official rule book ends.

[yankees228]

Nope' date=' re-read this thread. I was behind and had to read from the 3rd page on. Anything to win, screw honor, tradition, history, respect, pride... just win. No one from my generation even thought that way but it appears all the kids here do. I think that's a pretty big and serious issue.[/quote']

 

You're creating a false stance for your opponent. No one said to ignore all the things you listed. A couple people mentioned that winning should be the priority, not that those other things should be ignored.

 

Additionally, there isn't even any kind of implication here, because someone stating that winning should be the top priority does not equate to 'screwing honor, tradition, history, respect, and pride'.

[YeAuldBroade]

You're creating a false stance for your opponent. No one said to ignore all the things you listed. A couple people mentioned that winning should be the priority, not that those other things should be ignored.

 

Additionally, there isn't even any kind of implication here, because someone stating that winning should be the top priority does not equate to 'screwing honor, tradition, history, respect, and pride'.

You're minimizing what has been said here by a country mile. I stand by everything I've posted. Don't like it please put me on ignore. In fact... maybe many here should. We discuss a different sport so they shouldn't be bored by my game of baseball.

[BoSox21]

A s*** bunt when the fielders are back protecting against a real hit - because no one bunts in a no-hitter' date=' isn't giving the best of your ability - it's about one hiccup from cheating. [/quote']

 

Any manager not defending the bunt hit against Carl Crawford with no one on base is just an idiot anyway. Today's game features the best-caliber athletes baseball has ever seen and not that I have the stats off-hand, but I'll bet the bunt single is more common today than it's ever been. It's a part of the game.

 

And I won't stop saying the "win at any cost" generation until someone here proves me wrong but with each post you keep proving the label more and more correct.

 

Fine, go ahead and stick to your made up labels. What the hell do I care?

[YeAuldBroade]

Any manager not defending the bunt hit against Carl Crawford with no one on base is just an idiot anyway. Today's game features the best-caliber athletes baseball has ever seen and not that I have the stats off-hand, but I'll bet the bunt single is more common today than it's ever been. It's a part of the game.

 

 

 

Fine, go ahead and stick to your made up labels. What the hell do I care?

 

First post... now you're posting things that don't make any sense because you've run out of excuses. And obviously you care a great deal or you wouldn't keep posting about it.

[yankees228]

You're minimizing what has been said here by a country mile. I stand by everything I've posted. Don't like it please put me on ignore. In fact... maybe many here should. We discuss a different sport so they shouldn't be bored by my game of baseball.

 

Why would I put you on ignore? I view this as a civil discussion, between two people with different views on a topic. I don't see anything wrong with that. As a matter of fact, that's why I post here.

 

As for the actual discussion, could you provide an example where someone either says, or clearly implies, that all the things you mentioned should be ignored?

[Flynnatic10]

this is a very arguementive thread lol

[BoSox21]

First post... now you're posting things that don't make any sense because you've run out of excuses. And obviously you care a great deal or you wouldn't keep posting about it.

 

How does it not make sense? I firmly believe that the caliber of athletes playing in any professional sport today are the best there have ever been. And I care cause I think this is a great debate, minus the stupid labels you keep trying to put on people whose opinion differs from yours.

[Jasonbay44]

Now you're saying anything to try to prove that no honor, no respect, steroid use, anything for a victory are all that matters.

 

NO!!! you expect the team to square its shoulders, bear down and try to get a real hit. To try to beat the pitcher that's having the game of his life with your best. Why is this so f***ing difficult to understand? I understood it day one as a child. Why is honor and respect such difficult concepts for kids today?

 

No I am not. How are steroids and bunting for a hit even remotely close. Steroids are illegal, bunting for a hit is not. They are completely different. I may have implied doing what it takes to win is fine. However, I don't think cheating and injuring another teams players fall under the category. What I'm saying is do whatever it takes to win as long as it is legal and doesn't cause injury.

 

Also a bunt single is a real hit, It doesn't matter if its hit hard or not, its a hit. A bunt for a hit may be a hitters best that day. If you cant hit a pitcher who is just dominating you, why not try and bunt for a hit and start the rally. I've seen numerous times where a pitcher has looked dominant but once he hits the stretch for the first time, he seems to lose his control, especially if the runner on first is a speedster and can cause problems.

[ORS]

It really isn't though. Cause it ends where the official rule book ends.

Prior to 2003/2004, the rules didn't ban the use of steroids. Sure, Giamatti sent out a memo in 1991 (ish) stating the league didn't condone the use of controlled substances, but the league never took proactive action prior to that offseason.

 

You chose to address my question with a rhetorical one, but you avoided a response. Prior to PED testing, they were within the rules, are you OK with what they did? Or do you arbitrarily draw the line on what is acceptable within the "whatever it takes" mentality at another point along the path?

[Flynnatic10]

No I am not. How are steroids and bunting for a hit even remotely close. Steroids are illegal, bunting for a hit is not. They are completely different. I may have implied doing what it takes to win is fine. However, I don't think cheating and injuring another teams players fall under the category. What I'm saying is do whatever it takes to win as long as it is legal and doesn't cause injury.

 

Also a bunt single is a real hit, It doesn't matter if its hit hard or not, its a hit. A bunt for a hit may be a hitters best that day. If you cant hit a pitcher who is just dominating you, why not try and bunt for a hit and start the rally. I've seen numerous times where a pitcher has looked dominant but once he hits the stretch for the first time, he seems to lose his control, especially if the runner on first is a speedster and can cause problems.

 

agreed!

 

think of all the leadoff men whop couldnt hit. they bunted to get on to 1st.