Beltre's Suspect Defense

[DirtDog331724632256]

forget it dipre, dont waste your time with the guy

[Dipre]

Obviously every player makes errors' date=' but numerous of them have been Beltre just making stupid mistakes once he gets the ball. Anyway, my point is: Beltre is going to make more errors then most third basemen due the fact that he gets to more balls then most 3rd basemen. Lowell is not an upgrade defensively, if you want Beltre gone at least say for a good defensive 3rd basemen. (Note not directed at anyone particular with that comment but I have seen numerous people begging for Lowell to start over Beltre).[/quote']

 

Well said.

 

Since you watch the games, you honestly cant see how much more range Beltre has then Lowell? Wether you believe UZR is a reliable stat or not, you can tell just by watching the games that Beltre's range is 10x better then Lowell. Beltre is the better defender and it will show as the season progresses. Lowell has no hope of getting better defensively because he is old and never really was very mobile, those hip surgeries have killed his mobility, therefore limiting his range.

 

Simple logic.

 

If UZR is not a reliable stat, then why is Fielding%? Fielding% can be even more misleading then UZR. According to fielding%, Mike Lowell is best fielding third basemen of all time. You know why? It doesn't factor in range. Just in the past few years Lowell has look absolutely terrible defensively, while Beltre has looked fantastic, but you cant tell that by fielding%. However, with UZR you can.

 

UZR is a reliable stat, you just don't understand it.

 

Right on the spot.

[rhet]

Obviously every player makes errors, but numerous of them have been Beltre just making stupid mistakes once he gets the ball. Anyway, my point is: Beltre is going to make more errors then most third basemen due the fact that he gets to more balls then most 3rd basemen. Lowell is not an upgrade defensively, if you want Beltre gone at least say for a good defensive 3rd basemen. (Note not directed at anyone particular with that comment but I have seen numerous people begging for Lowell to start over Beltre).

 

Since you watch the games, you honestly cant see how much more range Beltre has then Lowell? Wether you believe UZR is a reliable stat or not, you can tell just by watching the games that Beltre's range is 10x better then Lowell. Beltre is the better defender and it will show as the season progresses. Lowell has no hope of getting better defensively because he is old and never really was very mobile, those hip surgeries have killed his mobility, therefore limiting his range.

 

If UZR is not a reliable stat, then why is Fielding%? Fielding% can be even more misleading then UZR. According to fielding%, Mike Lowell is best fielding third basemen of all time. You know why? It doesn't factor in range. Just in the past few years Lowell has look absolutely terrible defensively, while Beltre has looked fantastic, but you cant tell that by fielding%. However, with UZR you can.

 

UZR is a reliable stat, you just don't understand it.

 

Just the opposite. People who understand UZR know it's not a reliable stat. People who don't understand it worship it.

 

As far as range goes, nobody said Lowell has more range than Beltre. But range isn't all there is to defense. At third base, properly handling balls hit to you is more important than an extra two feet of range.

[Dipre]

Just the opposite. People who understand UZR know it's not a reliable stat. People who don't understand it worship it.

 

Certain aspects of it. You don't know what you're talking about because you don't understand the stat yourself.

 

The issues with UZR are 1B because of sample size, and SS, in which case the formula needs tweaking because it overvalues park factors.

 

It's a reliable statistic when used with players withconsiderable sample sizes in all three OF positions, 3B and 2B. It's acceptable when used with 1B with a large sample, and hit-or-miss with SS. Take the time to read about it so you can come up with a reasonable and informed opinion on it instead of bashing it mindlessly without understanding it.

 

As far as range goes, nobody said Lowell has more range than Beltre. But range isn't all there is to defense. At third base, properly handling balls hit to you is more important than an extra two feet of range.

 

Can't handle balls you can't get to.

[Dipre]

Bump.

 

Any new thoughts?

[Chamomile]

Bump.

 

Any new thoughts?

 

Beltre now has a UZR/150 of 10. Well above average but still well below his career averages, he should only get better.

[Dipre]

Beltre now has a UZR/150 of 10. Well above average but still well below his career averages' date=' he should only get better.[/quote']

 

Dude, people who understand UZR know it's a flawed stat.

[redsoxrules]

Bump.

 

Any new thoughts?

 

yes

 

Beltre defense if full of awsomeness

 

on a side not , Rhet must be pleased with Drew so far this year , he leads the team in RBI'S !!!!

[Dipre]

yes

 

Beltre defense if full of awsomeness

 

You mean the accuracy in handling bunts? The strong arm? The great range and mobility?

 

But, but, but he sucks......

[YeAuldBroade]

Beltre is starting to play like Beltre. His detractors are now sitting down to a steaming plate of crow.

[Dipre]

Beltre is starting to play like Beltre. His detractors are now sitting down to a steaming plate of crow.

 

The starter of this thread or "Whinus Maximus" as i like to call him comes to mind.

[YeAuldBroade]

The starter of this thread or "Whinus Maximus" as i like to call him comes to mind.

 

Every player at every position can't be a future hall of famer.... To get a guy like Beltre, when every team in baseball knew we needed a 3rd baseman, was a good pickup.

 

Personally I think Beltre was just over-playing trying to win over the Fenway faithful - who can be a damn tough crowd.

[Dipre]

yes

 

Beltre defense if full of awsomeness

 

on a side not , Rhet must be pleased with Drew so far this year , he leads the team in RBI'S !!!!

 

The word i'm not supposed to say but i want to in this phrase is delicious.

[Dojji]

10.0 UZR/150, range more than making up for gaffes.

 

Nice to start getting some season numbers to put things in perspective. Otherwise we just have our easily-deceived eyes.

[TheMino007]

Whinus Maximus is silent, for now. Guy has great range that is a given, but that hasn't been his problem.

[SoxSport]

Must be contagious on the left side of the infield. Scutaro isn't doing much defensively, either.

The FO needs to figure out why this club is underachieving. Is it the injuries? Mental? Clubhouse issues?

[rhet]

yes

 

Beltre defense if full of awsomeness

 

on a side not , Rhet must be pleased with Drew so far this year , he leads the team in RBI'S !!!!

 

So far, so good.

A grand slam is better than a walk. Always.

[jdr0317]

I just joined this forum solely because I came across this thread and felt warm and fuzzy.

 

And because Adrian Beltre just had a monster game and I love rubbing it in the face of his detractors.

 

Remember everyone, if you're Brooks Robinson, and have a 104 career OPS+ and great defense, you are a demigod. If you are Adrian Beltre, have a 105 OPS+ and great defense, but made a lot of money after hitting 48 HR in a season, you suck.

 

I was thrilled as hell when we signed this guy, and I love that he's reaffirming my trust.

[jdr0317]

So far, so good.

A grand slam is better than a walk. Always.

 

Man I love sweeping generalizations.

 

You know what's better than making 10% on your 401(k), bro? Winning the lottery.

 

Therefore, if you spend your life earning 10% a year on a 401(k) fund, you're not clutch.

[Jasonbay44]

I just joined this forum solely because I came across this thread and felt warm and fuzzy.

 

And because Adrian Beltre just had a monster game and I love rubbing it in the face of his detractors.

 

Remember everyone, if you're Brooks Robinson, and have a 104 career OPS+ and great defense, you are a demigod. If you are Adrian Beltre, have a 105 OPS+ and great defense, but made a lot of money after hitting 48 HR in a season, you suck.

 

I was thrilled as hell when we signed this guy, and I love that he's reaffirming my trust.

Glad to see someone post this, I was one of only people defending Beltre early on (I believe Dipre was the other person defending him with me). His defense was bound to turn around and the power was definitely going to show up eventually. I was happy when we signed Beltre and I still supported him even through the tough stretch and I'm glad other people are starting to appreciate his game, his defense has been amazing of late and he still hasn't slowed down offensively :thumbsup:

[jdr0317]

Glad to see someone post this' date=' I was one of only people defending Beltre early on (I believe Dipre was the other person defending him with me). His defense was bound to turn around and the power was definitely going to show up eventually. I was happy when we signed Beltre and I still supported him even through the tough stretch and I'm glad other people are starting to appreciate his game, his defense has been amazing of late and he still hasn't slowed down offensively :thumbsup:[/quote']

 

When a bad stretch involves hitting .338 in a month (blech, batting average...I cited it anyway, though I just felt part of me die), I tend to not worry too much about the long term.

 

The only thing I don't like about signing him right now is that it's only for one season.

[TedWilliams101]

When a bad stretch involves hitting .338 in a month (blech, batting average...I cited it anyway, though I just felt part of me die), I tend to not worry too much about the long term.

 

The only thing I don't like about signing him right now is that it's only for one season.

 

I'm hoping that they only signed him 1 year because they plan on going after one of the premier 1B FA next offseason and slide Youk to 3B.

 

I was a Beltre supporter before we even signed him. When he hit FA I was hoping the Sox would pick him up and I've been behind him ever since. Some people just don't like to use logic around here, but the guy has ALWAYS been a gold-glover at 3B and hit extremely well away from Safe-co. Now we are all seeing just how good Beltre is.

[jdr0317]

I'm hoping that they only signed him 1 year because they plan on going after one of the premier 1B FA next offseason and slide Youk to 3B.

 

I was a Beltre supporter before we even signed him. When he hit FA I was hoping the Sox would pick him up and I've been behind him ever since. Some people just don't like to use logic around here, but the guy has ALWAYS been a gold-glover at 3B and hit extremely well away from Safe-co. Now we are all seeing just how good Beltre is.

 

Already did semi-heavy lifting on the topic

 

His power was most certainly crushed by Safeco. There's no other way to explain that discrepancy in Home/Away SLG in Seattle.

[Jasonbay44]

When a bad stretch involves hitting .338 in a month (blech, batting average...I cited it anyway, though I just felt part of me die), I tend to not worry too much about the long term.

 

The only thing I don't like about signing him right now is that it's only for one season.

 

I was referring to his defense, he has been hitting well all season. When he made his 7th error a few weeks ago people were calling for his head and demanding that Lowell start.

[Dipre]

I just joined this forum solely because I came across this thread and felt warm and fuzzy.

 

And because Adrian Beltre just had a monster game and I love rubbing it in the face of his detractors.

 

Remember everyone, if you're Brooks Robinson, and have a 104 career OPS+ and great defense, you are a demigod. If you are Adrian Beltre, have a 105 OPS+ and great defense, but made a lot of money after hitting 48 HR in a season, you suck.

 

I was thrilled as hell when we signed this guy, and I love that he's reaffirming my trust.

 

If you're a girl, i love you and want to marry you.

 

If you're a dude, you're my main man and i want to buy you a beer.

 

I've been the main Beltre defender in this board, since i know exactly what the guy's capable of. Welcome aboard.

 

Lol Lowell can play better D than Beltre lol.

[Dipre]

Already did semi-heavy lifting on the topic

 

His power was most certainly crushed by Safeco. There's no other way to explain that discrepancy in Home/Away SLG in Seattle.

 

I've made this argument several times. The response i got? FENWAY'S NOT A GOOD PARK FOR HITTING FOR POWER!!!11!!!!1!.

 

Two months in, Beltre's .744 career home OPS is replaced by an .820 OPS at Fenway. Funny how that works.

[rhet]

Already did semi-heavy lifting on the topic

 

His power was most certainly crushed by Safeco. There's no other way to explain that discrepancy in Home/Away SLG in Seattle.

 

Man I love sweeping generalizations, bro.

 

He sucked in April, he's great in May. I hope he continues to slug away, but somehow feel it won't turn out that way.

[Dipre]

Man I love sweeping generalizations, bro.

 

He sucked in April, he's great in May. I hope he continues to slug away, but somehow feel it won't turn out that way.

 

So now it's the offense you're going to criticize......persistence.

[TedWilliams101]

Man I love sweeping generalizations, bro.

 

He sucked in April, he's great in May. I hope he continues to slug away, but somehow feel it won't turn out that way.

 

Career road OPS: .826

2010 Fenway OPS: .820

 

While he won't likely keep up a .950+ OPS on the road this season, there's no reason to believe he'll suck... at all.