With every HR Gonzalez hits...his price goes up.

[Palodios]

Dunn may be a stretch' date=' but I don't think he is a pipe dream though.[/quote']

 

I really don't see him being any more unreasonable than say Jason Bay or Victor Martinez-- those are the kind of deals that make a big difference, and the team is willing to make. But the team isn't willing to make a Santana/Halladay/A-rod/ A-gon type deal.

[a700hitter]

I got criticized for suggesting that they take on $2 million on Nady to fill an empty slot in the OF. How much does Dunn make $8-10 million. We are already paying $25 million for Lowell and Ortiz to DH. I don't think they will pay $35 million to man the DH spot this season. Maybe they get Dunn next year, but not this year.

[ORS]

I agree, a700. They aren't going to get any team to take either of those two off their hands while paying full freight. And, I too am skeptical that they'd sink $35M on DH for the season. Their big bat upgrade will be when Ortiz starts hitting.

[TheMino007]

But that may never happen, then what to you do? Grind out the rest the season to 85 wins and a missed playoffs?

[ORS]

Believe it or not, life goes on if they miss the playoffs, and the management team has shown they know this.

[RWTP24]

I agree' date=' a700. They aren't going to get any team to take either of those two off their hands while paying full freight. And, I too am skeptical that they'd sink $35M on DH for the season. Their big bat upgrade will be when Ortiz starts hitting.[/quote']

 

That is never going to happen. Manny is not hitting behind him to give all those great pitches anymore. Papi is done! They need to release him and eat the money.

 

 

Lowell they can just keep as a back up till someone needs a good bat at the end of the season. Someone will take Lowell; it is just a matter of time.

[Spudboy]

I'd be very surprised if the Sox were to release Ortiz.

 

The question of his ability to hit still remains and they will be reluctant to take the publicity hit. Plus, they get nothing of value when cutting a player guaranteed $12. mil.

[RWTP24]

I'd be very surprised if the Sox were to release Ortiz.

 

The question of his ability to hit still remains and they will be reluctant to take the publicity hit. Plus, they get nothing of value when cutting a player guaranteed $12. mil.

 

Well the one thing we know right now is that Fancona has no problem sitting him or pulling him out for a better hitter. If he is going to sit on the bench, they might as well release him because he can do anything else to help the team. Hell, they could try and trade him and eat more of his salary which would be better than all of it.

[a700hitter]

I don't see them releasing him and eating his salary. He can't go to the NL cause he has no position. If they cut him and an AL team picked him up for free, you know that he would kill us in a crucial series.

[RWTP24]

I don't see them releasing him and eating his salary. He can't go to the NL cause he has no position. If they cut him and an AL team picked him up for free' date=' you know that he would kill us in a crucial series.

 

That would never happen, ever!

[SoxSport]

Lars Anderson just got promoted to Pawtucket after a strong start at Portland. Bates moved to the OF.

Don't be suprised if Anderson is on a fast track. AdGon may have been priced off the Red Sox. No way Buchholz gets dealt for him at this point. That Howard contract is a killer.

[jacksonianmarch]

You saw what happened when you rushed Lars before. He tanked. Now, he is hitting again and moving up the ranks. Don't annoint him as a Red Sock just yet. Lets see if he can hack it in AAA before thinking he'll be in Boston this yr.

[ORS]

You saw what happened when you rushed Lars before. He tanked. Now' date=' he is hitting again and moving up the ranks. Don't annoint him as a Red Sock just yet. Lets see if he can hack it in AAA before thinking he'll be in Boston this yr.[/quote']

Not that I disagree with you, but this post, coming from the same mouth that warned us all offseason about how soon Montero would be impacting the AL East, is the reason I created the chart.

 

You have absolutely no shame in how far you will take a double standard.

[Dojji]

I need a link to the chart so I can save it as a text file on my computer for ease of reference.. The last couple times I've gone looking for it I came up empty.

[TheMino007]

Believe it or not' date=' life goes on if they miss the playoffs, and the management team has shown they know this.[/quote']

 

With a 160 million payroll, there is no reason why they shouldn't. Then again when you sign Cameron over Bay, bring in Scutaro, and don't acquire a big bat, I wonder how this team spent so much money.

[BoSox21]

With a 160 million payroll' date=' there is no reason why they shouldn't. Then again when you sign Cameron over Bay, bring in Scutaro, and don't acquire a big bat, I wonder how this team spent so much money.[/quote']

 

John Lackey.

[a700hitter]

John Lackey.

That was about $17-18 million for 2010. Where did the other $140+ million go, and why isn't this team better after spending that kind of $?

[BoSox21]

Cause my guess is the FO's strategy was to succeed over a 162-game season and postseason as opposed to the first 22 games of the season.

 

I could be wrong though, they might have planned to come out of the gate like firecrackers and then bend over for the rest of the league. If that's the case, they should be hung from flagpoles by their tighty whities.

[a700hitter]

Cause my guess is the FO's strategy was to succeed over a 162-game season and postseason as opposed to the first 22 games of the season.

 

I could be wrong though, they might have planned to come out of the gate like firecrackers and then bend over for the rest of the league. If that's the case, they should be hung from flagpoles by their tighty whities.

What a snide jerky post. I think Tampa is getting much more value for their payroll dollar than the Sox, and they have been getting better value for the last few seasons. Their FO is doing a fantastic job with very limited resources. Our FO is doing a good job too, but their resources are enormous compared to most teams. For $160 million, we have a career utility infielder playing SS, an unimpressive OF, even when healthy, and terrible defense at the catching position. These are glaring deficiencies. You would expect that $160 million could have fixed some of this.

[TedWilliams101]

What a snide jerky post. I think Tampa is getting much more value for their payroll dollar than the Sox' date=' and they have been getting better value for the last few seasons. Their FO is doing a fantastic job with very limited resources. Our FO is doing a good job too, but their resources are enormous compared to most teams. For $160 million, we have a career utility infielder playing SS, an unimpressive OF, even when healthy, and terrible defense at the catching position. These are glaring deficiencies. You would expect that $160 million could have fixed some of this.[/quote']

 

The Rays have a 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st overall pick on their team. Add to that the prospects they acquired by trading their players away when the team sucked and you have the reason for their value. You simply can't have sustained long term success using that strategy (sucking and fire sales).

[a700hitter]

They have a lot of work to do in building a fan base. That will be diificult, because Tampa is Yankee territory in many respects. Tampa had been bad for so long that the built no fan loyalty. If they make progress with regard to gate revenue, they might be able to keep some stars and sustain their success.

[a700hitter]

BTW I don't think the sole reason for their success is not due solely to getting top draft picks. They have made some key acquistions. The trade to get Garza/Bartlett has been a huge contribution to their recent success.

[Dojji]

I don't think we really need to add power to the lineup. I would definitely like to stack on a bit more contact and OBP though.

 

I think I'd rather have another really good disciplined hitter, a Dustin Pedroia type if you will, in the lower echelons of the lineup, than another big thumper. I wonder what it would take to talk the Royals out of Alberto Callaspo. Probably more than we're prepared to pay, but he's exactly the kind of player I think we need and if they get shortsighted about Gordon's diminishing potential I'd grab him and play him at 3B in a heartbeat.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The question of his ability to hit still remains and they will be reluctant to take the publicity hit.

 

This is one thing that sucks about sports. So many of the common fans are total idiots who know very little about the sport and team they follow, but those idiots make up the largest chunk of the fanbase, so their idiotic wishes play some part, however small, in the FO's moves, in order to keep these morons paying for tickets. Thus you get overpaying for the sake of having a TD/offseason transaction to show for the period in question, and overdue releases for longtime members of the team who clearly just aren't any good now. Although Boston and the Red Sox are certainly among the posterboys for this, it applies to just about every team in every team. Pisses me off.

 

To a knowledgeable person who isn't hung up on drama and sentimental ********, how bad could a team possibly look if they release a player who has blown ass this year, blew ass for much of last year, and blew ass the year before that, and is getting paid like a motherf***er for all this non-production?

 

/rant

 

Plus, they get nothing of value when cutting a player guaranteed $12. mil.

 

They're getting nothing of value by keeping him on the team, either. What team in their right mind would trade for him?

[a700hitter]

This is one thing that sucks about sports. So many of the common fans are total idiots who know very little about the sport and team they follow, but those idiots make up the largest chunk of the fanbase, so their idiotic wishes play some part, however small, in the FO's moves, in order to keep these morons paying for tickets. Thus you get overpaying for the sake of having a TD/offseason transaction to show for the period in question, and overdue releases for longtime members of the team who clearly just aren't any good now. Although Boston and the Red Sox are certainly among the posterboys for this, it applies to just about every team in every team. Pisses me off.

 

To a knowledgeable person who isn't hung up on drama and sentimental ********, how bad could a team possibly look if they release a player who has blown ass this year, blew ass for much of last year, and blew ass the year before that, and is getting paid like a motherf***er for all this non-production?

 

/rant

When a player is done, the fans don't usually care about him. The fans are the first ones to turn on the player in a slump. Keeping Ortiz and Lowell and playing them has nothing to do with sports and everything to do with business. Businessmen are all about self-preservation. If you invest $25 million of the Company's money in an asset, well you had better hope that the asset is very productive, or else your behind is toast. They are going to keep these guys and hope one or both of them produce or that they can trade one and get a decent return, because businesses hate non-performing assets. Whether they stay or go has nothing to do with the fans. It never has been. Throughout the history of the game popular players and icons have been released when they are done. The Yankees released Babe Ruth-- the biggest of American icons. The fans move on. If the team is winning they show up, it doesn't matter who is on the team.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Nomar.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

When a player is done' date=' the fans don't usually care about him. The fans are the first ones to turn on the player in a slump. Keeping Ortiz and Lowell and playing them has nothing to do with sports and everything to do with business. Businessmen are all about self-preservation. If you invest $25 million of the Company's money in an asset, well you had better hope that the asset is very productive, or else your behind is toast. They are going to keep these guys and hope one or both of them produce or that they can trade one and get a decent return, because businesses hate non-performing assets. Whether they stay or go has nothing to do with the fans. It never has been. Throughout the history of the game popular players and icons have been released when they are done. The Yankees released Babe Ruth-- the biggest of American icons. The fans move on. If the team is winning they show up, it doesn't matter who is on the team.[/quote']

 

It's 'good for business' to keep a black hole on the roster, whose actually going to have to see ample lineup time to have any hope of improving (as if)? Seems pretty foolish to sabotage some of your team's total production by throwing a lost cause out there day after day, in the very faint hope that he pulls his head out of his ass and does anything. Especially when you have ground to make up.

 

A lot of pink hat fans I talk to (trust me they do not hide it well) always say something to the effect of 'just give Papi time, he'll be back. Remember what he did in 2004?'. These are people of all types giving me this general crock of crap. Instructors at my college. Adult and young adult classmates of mine. Random kids on campus. They don't know what's going on. These people do have some kind of impact on the FO's moves, since they make up the biggest part of the fanbase and are the ones paying for a lot of the tickets.

 

Just because IBM doesn't have any dumbass fans to convince them to hold on to a washed up asset, doesn't means sports organizations don't have to deal with that. Fans pick favorites (usually pretty irrationally). People are more tolerant of Ortiz's suckage (and optimistic of a recovery) simply because of his tenure length. If this was Beltre performing this badly, you'd have to put him in the witness protection program.

 

The Yankees released Babe Ruth almost a century ago. Can't be compared. Completely different world then.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

If the front office cared so much what casual fans thought they wouldn't of traded Nomar so quick in 2004. He was one of the most popular players at the time of his trade and while some people seemed upset he was gone everyone got over it in a few days and no ticket sales were lost. People weren't abandoning ship, hating the team all of a sudden or anything. Same thing in 2008 with Manny. Ortiz hasn't been traded or released because they won't get much back in a trade, releasing him would just be a waste of their money, and he started last year worse than this year and ending up being fine the rest of the year, and they expect the same this year.

[Palodios]

'just give Papi time, he'll be back. Remember what he did in 2009?

 

See what I did there?

 

Papi has the potential to be monstrous again. Maybe his reflexives have dulled, but he hasn't lost bat speed or power. If they replace him with some minor leaguer who could come in and hit .200 right now, is that worth throwing away his potential for a below average hitter? Ortiz has until Ellsbury and Cameron return to get his s*** together, but after that, his roster spot is free for the taking.

[a700hitter]

It's 'good for business' to keep a black hole on the roster' date=' whose actually going to have to see ample lineup time to have any hope of improving (as if)? Seems pretty foolish to sabotage some of your team's total production by throwing a lost cause out there day after day, in the very faint hope that he pulls his head out of his ass and does anything. Especially when you have ground to make up.[/quote']I don't disagree with this, but businessmen are cowards and they put self-preservation above everything else. They are the one's clinging to the hope that Ortiz and/or Lowell turn it around. They don't want to have to convince their bosses to eat the $25 million that they convinced them to invest in the first place-- that would be a very uncomfortable conversation. Add to that the nagging fear that they would have that one or both of them would catch on with another team and be productive this season. This is not a good menu of options for the FO. Our FO is comprised of businessmen like any other business. Businessmen are the same regardless of their business-- they seldom acknowledge mistakes. Don't expect our FO to be fearless and self-less people acting only in the best interests of the organization at all times. That would just be unrealistic.

 

The Yankees released Babe Ruth almost a century ago. Can't be compared. Completely different world then.

If anything, popularity meant more in Ruth's day than today. You can't say that there is no comparison because the game is different today. Yes it is different today. More tickets are sold than ever before, but the impact of individual players on gate receipts is much harder to define, because same-day walk up ticket sales are not as significant today. Back in Ruth's day when a popular pitcher pitched there would probably be 10,000 -15,000 additional fans in the stands. It was very easy to measure. Player popularity was maybe more important in those days, because players stayed with the same organization due to the reserve clause. Because they had less invested in those players, teams were more willing to let a popular guy sit on the bench for a year or so past his prime before they cut him. Today, popular players are allowed to walk away all the time. Look at Pedro for instance. He was every bit as popular as Ortiz, and they let him walk rather than invest anymore money in him. Ortiz probably will also be allowed to walk after this season whether or not he produces. What is the difference to the fan if a popular player leaves by trade, release or free agency? Is one way more upsetting than the others, resulting in retribution against the organization?