Ellsbury still in pain

[Korn2]

Thames has hit 20+ homers a few times in his MLB career. McDonald has done nothing in the bigs

 

Jim Rice has hit 40 homers in the bigs maybe the Yankees should get him. The point is that if the Yankees had two injuries in the outfield they wouldn't be playing anyone who was that good and Darnell MacDonald has been just fine.

[Korn2]

Beltre has excellent quickness' date=' but he has displayed stone hands and poor throwing mechanics. He's good for quite a few great plays, but routine plays are an adventure.[/quote']

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Beltre's "thorwing mechanics." Beltre has a strong arm and throws a strike to first every time. This is a made up critiicsm on your part.

 

In listening to the radio and reading the message boards it seems that people go out of their way to attack this player who did nothing wrong other than have a career year which he never followed up on.

[Dipre]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Beltre's "thorwing mechanics." Beltre has a strong arm and throws a strike to first every time. This is a made up critiicsm on your part.

 

In listening to the radio and reading the message boards it seems that people go out of their way to attack this player who did nothing wrong other than have a career year which he never followed up on.

 

Exactly.

 

I've never heard or read anyone else say that. And he got all of that through the TV to boot.

[rhet]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Beltre's "thorwing mechanics." Beltre has a strong arm and throws a strike to first every time. This is a made up critiicsm on your part.

 

In listening to the radio and reading the message boards it seems that people go out of their way to attack this player who did nothing wrong other than have a career year which he never followed up on.

 

Not made up, not by me. His throwing mechanics have been the subject of much discussion throughout the years. Facts, check them before attacking fellow posters.

[Dipre]

Not made up' date=' not by me. His throwing mechanics have been the subject of much discussion throughout the years. Facts, check them before attacking fellow posters.[/quote']

 

Link, proof?

 

What about the stone hands statement?

 

Got any proof to back that up, or is this an "Opinion doesn't need proof" scenario?

[rhet]

Link, proof?

 

What about the stone hands statement?

 

Got any proof to back that up, or is this an "Opinion doesn't need proof" scenario?

 

Stone hands is my hyperbolic criticism of his errors, misplays and snow cones. It's my opinion, obviously, since humans don't really have hands made out of rock.

 

OTOH, his throwing mechanics have been the subject of some discussion through the years. You wouldn't teach young players to throw like Beltre.

[Dipre]

Stone hands is my hyperbolic criticism of his errors, misplays and snow cones. It's my opinion, obviously, since humans don't really have hands made out of rock.

 

OTOH, his throwing mechanics have been the subject of some discussion through the years. You wouldn't teach young players to throw like Beltre.

 

But where's the info to validate the opinions you're thrwing around as fact? There's gotta be some sort of literature about it if it's been discussed for years.

[Chamomile]

But where's the info to validate the opinions you're thrwing around as fact? There's gotta be some sort of literature about it if it's been discussed for years.

 

"This bum's got stone hands!" (Drunken)

 

Works Cited

 

Drunken bar patron. Personal interview. 4 April 2010.

[Palodios]

Stone hands is my hyperbolic criticism of his errors, misplays and snow cones. It's my opinion, obviously, since humans don't really have hands made out of rock.

 

OTOH, his throwing mechanics have been the subject of some discussion through the years. You wouldn't teach young players to throw like Beltre.

 

I don't get it, if this has been going through the years... and he won gold gloves in 2007 and 2008, why haven't his critics just shut up and realized that the way he plays may not work for most, but it works for him?

[rhet]

I don't get it' date=' if this has been going through the years... and he won gold gloves in 2007 and 2008, why haven't his critics just shut up and realized that the way he plays may not work for most, but it works for him?[/quote']

 

They have. His unique throwing style has worked for him. The only criticism he gets, if you can call it that, is that you wouldn't teach youngsters to throw flat footed side arm like he does.

[BSN07]

I don't get it' date=' if this has been going through the years... and he won gold gloves in 2007 and 2008, why haven't his critics just shut up and realized that the way he plays may not work for most, but it works for him?[/quote']

 

Because he wasn't playing for the "Boston Red Sox". He's under the microscope now. And with that every little flaw will be over analyzed. It comes with the territory.

[Palodios]

Because he wasn't playing for the "Boston Red Sox". He's under the microscope now. And with that every little flaw will be over analyzed. It comes with the territory.

 

What I'm saying is that in this point his career, its too late for them to be diagnosing his problem as his "throwing technique" if his throwing technique won him gold gloves, and it hasn't changed since then. Why not start blaming Wakefield's problems on his slow pitch speed?

[Dipre]

They have. His unique throwing style has worked for him. The only criticism he gets' date=' if you can call it that, is that you wouldn't teach youngsters to throw flat footed side arm like he does.[/quote']

 

This does not directly correlate to your initial statement, which was a knock on his defense.

[rhet]

Indeed, his throwing mechanics are poor. You and Korn were wrong when you claimed I invented that criticism. Not only can you read about his throwing mechanics by doing a simple Google search, you can also watch him throw and observe. That is, if you know anything about throwing mechanics. The fact that he has made it work for him over the course of his career doesn't mean it's not poor mechanics.

 

As for my critique of his hands, do you deny that he has misplayed a number of balls so far as a member of the Red Sox? Do you deny that several balls that he hasn't misplayed have been snow coned in his glove? And finally, do you deny that you would criticize other players if they handled the ball the way Beltre has to date?

[Dipre]

Indeed, his throwing mechanics are poor. You and Korn were wrong when you claimed I invented that criticism. Not only can you read about his throwing mechanics by doing a simple Google search, you can also watch him throw and observe. That is, if you know anything about throwing mechanics. The fact that he has made it work for him over the course of his career doesn't mean it's not poor mechanics.

 

As for my critique of his hands, do you deny that he has misplayed a number of balls so far as a member of the Red Sox? Do you deny that several balls that he hasn't misplayed have been snow coned in his glove? And finally, do you deny that you would criticize other players if they handled the ball the way Beltre has to date?

 

Misplaying a couple of grounders doesn't mean you have "stone hands". Specially if you're making the assesment over TV. Magnify the s***** plays, overlook the good ones.

 

As for the throwing mechanics:

 

A) They were part of a criticism on his fielding, which you are now bailing on.

 

B ) Can you show some concrete evidence that shows that his throwing mechanics are poor? Article? Publication? Someone besides you over the TV?

[rhet]

Nice throwing error.

Over the TV.

Whatever that means.

[Spudboy]

He's looked pretty average and has made some really dumb plays to date.

 

Not at all what The Boston area Sox fans were expecting.

 

And he hits singles. Wheres all that xbh power?

[Dojji]

But... but I thought Fenway was a great place for RHH to hit homers!!!!!!

[WhiskeyBreath]

He's looked pretty average and has made some really dumb plays to date.

 

Not at all what The Boston area Sox fans were expecting.

 

And he hits singles. Wheres all that xbh power?

 

All that XBH power is sitting in his top drawer at his Domincan pad.

[Palodios]

Look on the bright side... who expected him to be hitting .309?

[Dipre]

Nice throwing error.

Over the TV.

Whatever that means.

 

Still no literature on the throwing motion and stone hands? I can see why you wouldn't let it go.

 

But... but I thought Fenway was a great place for RHH to hit homers!!!!!!

 

It is. And it has been proven multiple times. The fact that you bring it up now simply pertains to the fact that you're still butthurt about being proven wrong.....yet again.

[Chamomile]

Still no literature on the throwing motion and stone hands? I can see why you wouldn't let it go.

 

 

 

It is. And it has been proven multiple times. The fact that you bring it up now simply pertains to the fact that you're still butthurt about being proven wrong.....yet again.

 

Don't all the stats show that the monster reduces home runs?

[Dipre]

Don't all the stats show that the monster reduces home runs?

 

I, too, have seen that somewhere, but for some reason, it doesn't correlate to the actual number of Home Runs hit by RHH's from 2004-2009 (a rather telling sample size) at Fenway Park.

[Chamomile]

I' date=' too, have seen that somewhere, but for some reason, it doesn't correlate to the actual number of Home Runs hit by RHH's from 2004-2009 (a rather telling sample size) at Fenway Park.[/quote']

 

Where did you read that?

[Dipre]

Where did you read that?

 

I actually made the assesment myself with a little help from www.hittracker.com, but i had to go to some other site to look up years 2004-2005. I'll try to look up the post i made about it for you.

[Chamomile]

I actually made the assesment myself with a little help from www.hittracker.com' date=' but i had to go to some other site to look up years 2004-2005. I'll try to look up the post i made about it for you.[/quote']

 

Alright, sounds interesting.

[jacksonianmarch]

No literature on Beltre's throws? You arent going to see any as long as he is making his throws. If he airmails a few more, then there will be. He doesnt have a customary over the top throwing motion. He throws it 3/4, which from the infield isnt recommended since you add some tail to it and if you get under the ball, you can sail it. But, if he does this with remarkable accuracy, nobody is going to care

[rhet]

Still no literature on the throwing motion and stone hands? I can see why you wouldn't let it go.

 

I told you how to find the 'literature'. But posts to you go in one eye and out the other.

Nevertheless, I'm glad you're finding ignorance so blissful.

[Dipre]

I told you how to find the 'literature'. But posts to you go in one eye and out the other.

Nevertheless, I'm glad you're finding ignorance so blissful.

 

I'm just not a fan of people making up s***.

[Dipre]

No literature on Beltre's throws? You arent going to see any as long as he is making his throws. If he airmails a few more' date=' then there will be. He doesnt have a customary over the top throwing motion. He throws it 3/4, which from the infield isnt recommended since you add some tail to it and if you get under the ball, you can sail it. But, if he does this with remarkable accuracy, nobody is going to care[/quote']

 

You've got a fair point there. But while it's not "recommended" it's not all that uncommon either. Most 3B kids that get to the Minors from the DR use a 3/4 motion because it adds power to the throw. As i said in another thread, Tito thinks it's a mental issue, and i'll go with Tito instead of rhet because he actually knows what he's talking about.