Daisuke ready to return?

[yeszir]

He threw 86 pitches today through 6 scoreless against the Buffalo Bisons ().

 

Apparently he topped out around 92, which I think is where he was hitting during ST. Apparently he thinks he's ready to return, which means nothing whatsoever I guess.

 

Good news is that he had 2 K's and didn't walk anyone.

[Spudboy]

Funny post.

 

Still, I'm past the point where I have any expectations of this lump.

 

Sell him back to NPB and call it a day.

[YeAuldBroade]

Funny post.

 

Still, I'm past the point where I have any expectations of this lump.

 

Sell him back to NPB and call it a day.

Ditto!

[italstallianion]

Maybe we can put a Japan jersey underneath his Red Sox jersey. You know how well he pitches when he's pitching for Japan...

[YeAuldBroade]

Maybe we can put a Japan jersey underneath his Red Sox jersey. You know how well he pitches when he's pitching for Japan...

Overall I'm thinking (with a couple of exceptions) that the Japanese experiment failed. The Japanese league is AAAA.

[italstallianion]

Overall I'm thinking (with a couple of exceptions) that the Japanese experiment failed. The Japanese league is AAAA.

 

 

 

Not all of it, I like Okajima and I enjoyed Saito while he was here. The jury is still out on Tazawa though.

[YeAuldBroade]

Not all of it' date=' I like Okajima and I enjoyed Saito while he was here. The jury is still out on Tazawa though.[/quote']

Like I said a couple of exceptions.......

[Dojji]

Actually there's a number of Japanese pitchers and players that came over fine. They just don't tend to be the overhyped Japanese superstars that are supposedly guaranteed to be awesome when they came over.

 

Fukudome is actually quite a decent player, about on par with David Dejesus -- not a corner outfielder but average to above average CF. Kenshin Kawakami and Hiroki Kuroda are decent, and we did get some good production out of Daisuke before his shoulder and his arrogance cost us a decent player. Kenji Johjima had his problems but had more strengths than weaknesses for most of his big league career. And of course, Oki and Saito were both big factors for us last year.

 

Soooo... look to Japan for talent, and don't be afraid to take risks to get a guy you think is good, but probably be wary of the overhyped Japanese superstar, since his play is going to trend much closer to average in this league.

[Dipre]

Actually there's a number of Japanese pitchers that came over fine. They just don't tend to be the overhyped Japanese superstars that are supposedly guaranteed to be awesome when they came over.

 

Fukudome is actually quite a decent player, about on par with David Dejesus -- not a corner outfielder but average to above average CF. Kenshin Kawakami and Hiroki Kuroda are decent, and we did get some good production out of Daisuke before his shoulder and his arrogance cost us a decent player. And of course, Oki and Saito were both big factors for us last year.

 

Soooo... look to Japan for talent, and don't be afraid to take risks to get a guy you think is good, but probably be wary of the overhyped Japanese superstar, since his play is going to trend much closer to average in this league.

 

Kazuo Matsui being the example, Hideki Matsui being the exception.

[Dojji]

Even Matsui was much, much bigger in Japan than he ever was here.

[Dipre]

Even Matsui was much' date=' much bigger in Japan than he ever was here.[/quote']

 

He came here basically past his prime, and while healthy, he was an extremely productive hitter, so i don't see your point.

[italstallianion]

I don't know, I think the cultural fan base had a lot to do with the differences in hype. Have you seen how different the crowds are in the WBC?

[example1]

Ichiro will be in the MLB HOF.

[SCM33]

Actually there's a number of Japanese pitchers and players that came over fine. They just don't tend to be the overhyped Japanese superstars that are supposedly guaranteed to be awesome when they came over.

 

Hideo Nomo was very good for a while. 7 of his 12 seasons were very productive. I dont remember hearing much about him before he debuted.

 

Hideki Irabu on the other hand.....their "version" of Roger Clemens, well Steinbrenner put it best.....fat toad.

[TedWilliams101]

You can find talent in Japan, just very little elite, HOF kind of talent. Dice-K was WAY overhyped. I like to think of Japanese ball as AAA, it's a good way to judge talent, but it doesn't PROVE anything. I think it's a bit ridiculous giving a huge contract to someone who hasn't even played in a single Professional American baseball game, let alone in the majors.

 

Matsui is a good hitter, but not elite. He came into the league at 29 years of age and was billed as the "Godzilla" of Japanese baseball. He only once posted 30+ HR and has a career SLG of 0.483, OPS of 0.852.

[Dojji]

When Daisuke first came here, the first 2-3 months he was sitting at 93, 94 miles an hour and flashing 96 from time to time. I don't know what's happened since then, mabe he just couldn't sustain it with the faster turnaround in the 5 man American rotation, maybe his stubbornness with his workout regimen just plain came back to bite him, but ever since about August of 2007, 93's the upper end of his velocity and he doesn't get there very often. Also the vaunted command, excellent the last time we can definitely confirm he was healthy, deserted him at about the same time. Those two signs put together point to shoulder trouble, and have done fairly consistently for 2 1/2 years.

 

I think that shoulder is more screwed up than he's prepared to admit, and I think he keeps making other excuses so that he doesn't have to admit he needs shoulder surgery. because when you have shoulder surgery you know you're out for a season, whereas if you're just rehabbing, you could still come back and pitch much earlier.

 

It's that twisted Japanese work ethic screwing the investment up again, where being as effective as possible comes second to showing up out of loyalty, trying your impaired best, and failing valiantly. If you're hurt, get better, then come back and pitch. Don't try to impress us with your dependability by dependably sucking.

[Keeper]

Japanese baseball may have also resurrected Colby Lewis' career. Kind of a cool story if he has a good season for the Rangers.

[Spudboy]

There is a big cultural difference between Japan and the U.S.. But I'm not willing to excuse his behaviour and performance because of it. He willingly took big money to come here and I have to assume he had full knowledge of what the expectation were for his performance.

 

He did ok to pretty good through 2008. Then showed up out of shape and "injured' in 2009. He either deceived or lied to the Sox and then publicly cast a bad light on his employers while collecting millions of dollars. I'm not sure what the word "loyalty" has to do with any discussion of his worth.

 

If he had been an American employee of an American company, under most circumstances, he would have been fired. He has a no-cut, no trade contract, personal mesouse (sp), translator, limousine, and flights back to Japan.

 

He's won (useless stat!) just over 30 games in 3+ years. Wonderful.

 

I'm not calling him a complete bust, but he can not be viewed as a good investment. $60. mil. for three years of this? Posting Fee included.

 

Next.

[Dipre]

He's been a complete bust so far. And wins are a near-useless stat.

[boomer]

right now he should have had 20 plus winning seasons.. so much for that 100 million to talk to em.... If he does come back and is strong.. Wake to the PEN!

[jacksonianmarch]

When Daisuke first came here, the first 2-3 months he was sitting at 93, 94 miles an hour and flashing 96 from time to time. I don't know what's happened since then, mabe he just couldn't sustain it with the faster turnaround in the 5 man American rotation, maybe his stubbornness with his workout regimen just plain came back to bite him, but ever since about August of 2007, 93's the upper end of his velocity and he doesn't get there very often. Also the vaunted command, excellent the last time we can definitely confirm he was healthy, deserted him at about the same time. Those two signs put together point to shoulder trouble, and have done fairly consistently for 2 1/2 years.

 

I think that shoulder is more screwed up than he's prepared to admit, and I think he keeps making other excuses so that he doesn't have to admit he needs shoulder surgery. because when you have shoulder surgery you know you're out for a season, whereas if you're just rehabbing, you could still come back and pitch much earlier.

 

It's that twisted Japanese work ethic screwing the investment up again, where being as effective as possible comes second to showing up out of loyalty, trying your impaired best, and failing valiantly. If you're hurt, get better, then come back and pitch. Don't try to impress us with your dependability by dependably sucking.

 

Do you remember the night game vs the Mariners, King Felix vs DiceK? Felix threw a 1 hitter or something, but DiceK was throwing 97-98mph. Maybe the guns were "juiced", but he was throwing ched. Havent seen it since

[Dipre]

Do you remember the night game vs the Mariners' date=' King Felix vs DiceK? Felix threw a 1 hitter or something, but[b'] DiceK was throwing 97-98mph.[/b] Maybe the guns were "juiced", but he was throwing ched. Havent seen it since

 

Nope. Saw that game on t.v. 93-96.

[a700hitter]

For the amount invested, he has been a bust. There's no tiptoing around that. Was it foreseeable that he would not dominate over here? I think it was. If you remember, a big part of the legend that they kept repeating was about how many pitches he would throw. There was some championship series where he threw something like 200 + pitches in a couple of days. He was said to love to throw and that deep pitch count games were normal for him. These so-called legendary stories should have been warning signs. The first warning should have been that he had too many miles on his arm. He is not a big man or a particularly well-conditioned man. That first spring when I saw him I was struck by his small stature and soft conditioning. He had man boobs. The next warning sign should have been about his command. Rather than view his throwing so many pitches as a positive, the FO should have wondered why it would take so many pitches to get outs against vastly inferior hitters. The answer to this was obvious once he got to the US. His legendary command was not good at all. He walked too many batters and could not go deep into games. He never attacked the strike zone. All those pitches were not a good sign. Find me a guy that throws complete games against inferior competition using less than 90 pitches. Don't bring me a guy that needs 160 pitches to beat minor leaguers.

[italstallianion]

In all fairness, it's hard not to be a bust for the investment that we put on Dice-K. If we paid Beckett that much (ie The AAV plus the 50+ million just to talk with him) then he wouldn't be worth it either. I wouldn't be complaining if we just paid him the AAV of the deal, as I think the auction/posting system in Japan is retarded, but that's probably just me. On that note, maybe we should hire the Japanese for marketing to overhype our products.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nope. Saw that game on t.v. 93-96.

 

I watched it too, and I distinctly remember him throwing a couple pitches 97 and 98mph.

[a700hitter]

In all fairness' date=' it's hard not to be a bust for the investment that we put on Dice-K. If we paid Beckett that much (ie The AAV plus the 50+ million just to talk with him) then he wouldn't be worth it either. I wouldn't be complaining if we just paid him the AAV of the deal, as I think the auction/posting system in Japan is retarded, but that's probably just me. On that note, maybe we should hire the Japanese for marketing to overhype our products.[/quote']He's no Beckett.

[italstallianion]

He's no Beckett.

 

 

That wasn't anywhere close to the point. I'm just saying that almost any pitcher would be a bad return on investment if we had to pay $51 f***** million just to talk to them. The Japanese posting system can choke on my English balls.

[a700hitter]

That wasn't anywhere close to the point. I'm just saying that almost any pitcher would be a bad return on investment if we had to pay $51 f***** million just to talk to them. The Japanese posting system can choke on my English balls.

That's true, but he's been pretty much of a bust without taking the posting fee into account.

[italstallianion]

That's true' date=' but he's been pretty much of a bust without taking the posting fee into account.[/quote']

 

 

 

I agree. He's been a bust compared to his regular AAV. The posting fee is just a bonus towards how badly we got f*****.

[ORS]

That's true' date=' but he's been pretty much of a bust without taking the posting fee into account.[/quote']

********. He's an $8M per pitcher without the posting fee. That's a value at the rate he was producing before the WBC.

 

Anyway, carry on with your whine. It's been incessant since they didn't start the year 9-0.