What about The Rays?

[Dipre]

Their bullpen has struggled just as much as their starting pitching, raising their collective ERA from around the 2.60 mark to 3.28 in less than a month.

[jacksonianmarch]

having a 3.28 ERA as a pen, though, is pretty good.

[ORS]

Yeah, overall, but if you slip from a 2.60 to a 3.28, the month it took to make that slide was bad.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree ORS, I think the Rays are in deep s*** since their problems run a lot deeper than their start would tell. I am just more shocked about their offense. How does a team with that much true blue-chip talent just stop hitting? It seems everyone aside fronm Crawford and Longoria are in career-worst slumps

[ORS]

Pena has always been a TTO hitter, and this is just that tendancy in full-scale effect, IMO. I particularly think so when I've had a chance to see him play this year. His swing is such a massive uppercut, it's no wonder that he's striking out so much and getting such awful results on his contact that doesn't leave the park. His approach leaves little room for other results.

 

Upton was actually worse last year, for a full year. Maybe he just is what he has been over the last 1.5 years?

 

Yeah, Zobrist and Bartlett are much worse than last year, but prior to last year, they also hadn't set any precedent to make any continuation of last year's performance a reasonable expectation. They blew up last year. Zobrist's power and Bartlett's overall good year were shockers. Again, maybe what you are seeing is what you get. It certainly was in the past for both of them.

[Dipre]

Pena's struggles are flukey. The patience and power are still there, but he has an unsustainably low .219 BABIP.

 

BJ Upton is having a similar season to last year in both statistics and peripherals.

 

Zobrist's power binge i argued was a fluke last year, and it's seeming more and more i was right. He's a LD/GB hitter, so a 17% HR/FB was going to be hard to maintain. Lo and behold, the OBP and BA have stayed, but the power is basically gone. Keep in mind though, he has a .440 SLG% with a .357 BABIP, and if that normalizes, both the BA and SLG% could take a hit.

 

John Jaso's provided more with the bat in this short time than all of their catchers last year combined, so that's a plus.

 

Bartlett's been victimized by injuries, but Brignac has been useful.

[Keeper]

B.J. Upton is a massive underachiever. So is Justin so far this year.

 

I'm wondering when they'll bring in Hellickson to replace Davis in the rotation.

[yrtb]

Other than one breakout year, this is what BJ Upton has been doing over the last couple of years, besides for his even lower average this year

[Palodios]

Big argument between Longoria and Upton. It could mean the beginning of the end for the Rays.

[Keeper]

Big argument between Longoria and Upton. It could mean the beginning of the end for the Rays.

 

Also could mean the beginning of the end for Upton with the organization. Goodbye Upton. Hello Desmond Jennings.

[bsox0407]

Also could mean the beginning of the end for Upton with the organization. Goodbye Upton. Hello Desmond Jennings.

 

I think the only way Upton plays 100 percent all the time is that he plays with Justin Upton.

[Spudboy]

I love how the Rays have faded into obscurity.:D

[Dipre]

I love how the almighty Yankees ande the super-charged Rays have managed to put away an injury, inefficiently ravaged Red Sox team.......Oh wait.......

 

Neither of them were ultimately better than the Sox. But injuries were.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I love how the almighty Yankees ande the super-charged Rays have managed to put away an injury, inefficiently ravaged Red Sox team.......Oh wait.......

 

Neither of them were ultimately better than the Sox. But injuries were.

 

theo put a good team together. it's not hard to imagine us being at least 5 games better off in the standings if half our lineup wasn't in the dl, but hey, that's baseball

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

We were actually at the point where we were 1/2 games back with all the injuries. They just couldn't seem to hold on for long.

[a700hitter]

I love how the almighty Yankees ande the super-charged Rays have managed to put away an injury, inefficiently ravaged Red Sox team.......Oh wait.......

 

Neither of them were ultimately better than the Sox. But injuries were.

A terrible bullpen had nothing to do with injuries. There is no control over injuries, but there is control over building a bullpen. Also, there ahs been lots of stupid sloppy play. There is no excuse for poor fundamentals. Let's not lay this all at the feet of injuries. If the FO does that and doesn't improve this team, we'll be facing the same fate next season whether they are healthy or injured.

[Dipre]

My three questions:

 

1) Would a healthy Sox team have won more games than the current unit? Indeed, which is the crux of the argument.

 

2) Are the Sox the only team with "sloppy" play problems? I'd venture say no, since i've seen some pretty "sloppy" moments from the likes of Nick Swisher, Elvis Andrus, Troy Glaus, Skip Schumaker, Brad Hawpe, among others, just to name a few on contending teams. This is, in reality, a non-issue when accounting for the current W-L record.

 

3) Is the bullpen the most important reason for the Sox' current record? No, it's the half that the Red Sox have had more days on the DL from their initial roster than the Yankees and Rays combined, therefore looking at sloppy play and/or the bullpen as main cogs in the current argument is just a way to created a five-legged cat. The bullpen's impact to the W-L record is insignificant when compared to the missing production from the injured players.

 

Without the injuries, even with the "sloppy" play and the bullpen issues, the Sox are at least 8-10 games better than what they are right now, so you can conclude that you can, in fact, place almost all of the blame on the injuries. It is what it is.

 

Oh, and to anyone mocking the "lack of regression" from the Rays, consider the following:

 

What was said here, was that they would not maintain their current pitching effectiveness, no one said they would "fade into obscurity" which is in reality nothing more than a mischaracterization and a typically weak "i told you so" baiting attempt.

 

Consider the following:

 

At the moment that me and some others concluded that the Rays would not continue their legendary SP performance they boasted a ML-second best 2.60ish ERA, which said posters concluded would regress, and their current 3.81 ERA, a full 1.20 runs above their mid-May mark , but injury issues from both the Sox and Yankees, as well as some ill-timed slumps from the Yankees have allowed them to stay at the Yanks' level and above the Sox' level, but the truth is, that moderately healthy, both the Sox and Yankees are better (on paper) than what a fully healthy (which is the key to their run this year, their only significant injury has been JP Howell) Rays team is.

[redsoxrules]

A terrible bullpen had nothing to do with injuries. There is no control over injuries' date=' but there is control over building a bullpen. Also, there ahs been lots of stupid sloppy play. There is no excuse for poor fundamentals. Let's not lay this all at the feet of injuries. If the FO does that and doesn't improve this team, we'll be facing the same fate next season whether they are healthy or injured.[/quote']

 

there 6 games back at this point in the season and their playing without 2 MVP player

one plays second base and the other first base .

ellsbury has played like what ? 10 games ?

 

it would be a whole different story if this team was 100% healthy

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

We all know if this team was healthy we'd be dangerous.

[redsoxrules]

We all know if this team was healthy we'd be dangerous.

 

except for A700

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

except for A700

 

Looooool.

[Yaz Sideburn]

except for A700

 

i can think of him and one other person

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I think I know who you're talking about

[yankees228]

The Rays' rotation, outside of Price, is in pretty bad shape. I wonder if they'd consider giving Jeremy Hellickson a postseason start.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hellickson has converted to relief to save his arm due to his innings load. Not sure they'd risk that. I think the Rays are gonna be fine for next yr, IMO. They have McGee and Hellickson waiting in the wings with no starter hitting FA. My guess is that they pawn off Garza for a bat while trying to resign Pena on the cheap and putting their speedy rookie in LF

[a700hitter]

except for A700

When did I say that injuries were not a factor? I've consistently said that they were not the only factor. Are you going to tell us that our suck balls bullpen was not also a factor? You are the Papelbon hater, so I thought you would give the bullpen some blame. I'll say it one more time injuries were not the only factor in the Sox missing the playoffs. Just to clarify, not being the "only factor" means that they were a factor.

[a700hitter]

My three questions:

 

1) Would a healthy Sox team have won more games than the current unit? Indeed, which is the crux of the argument.

 

2) Are the Sox the only team with "sloppy" play problems? I'd venture say no, since i've seen some pretty "sloppy" moments from the likes of Nick Swisher, Elvis Andrus, Troy Glaus, Skip Schumaker, Brad Hawpe, among others, just to name a few on contending teams. This is, in reality, a non-issue when accounting for the current W-L record.

 

3) Is the bullpen the most important reason for the Sox' current record? No, it's the half that the Red Sox have had more days on the DL from their initial roster than the Yankees and Rays combined, therefore looking at sloppy play and/or the bullpen as main cogs in the current argument is just a way to created a five-legged cat. The bullpen's impact to the W-L record is insignificant when compared to the missing production from the injured players.

 

Without the injuries, even with the "sloppy" play and the bullpen issues, the Sox are at least 8-10 games better than what they are right now, so you can conclude that you can, in fact, place almost all of the blame on the injuries. It is what it is.

 

Oh, and to anyone mocking the "lack of regression" from the Rays, consider the following:

 

What was said here, was that they would not maintain their current pitching effectiveness, no one said they would "fade into obscurity" which is in reality nothing more than a mischaracterization and a typically weak "i told you so" baiting attempt.

 

Consider the following:

 

At the moment that me and some others concluded that the Rays would not continue their legendary SP performance they boasted a ML-second best 2.60ish ERA, which said posters concluded would regress, and their current 3.81 ERA, a full 1.20 runs above their mid-May mark , but injury issues from both the Sox and Yankees, as well as some ill-timed slumps from the Yankees have allowed them to stay at the Yanks' level and above the Sox' level, but the truth is, that moderately healthy, both the Sox and Yankees are better (on paper) than what a fully healthy (which is the key to their run this year, their only significant injury has been JP Howell) Rays team is.

Counselor, I have never stated that injuries were not the most significant factor. That is a misinterpretation. In fact, when it was announced that Youk was done for the season, I posted that our playoff chances were done. Doesn't that sound like I thought injuries were significant. However, to blame everything on injuries (like some act of God) gives the FO a pass on other short comings. I don't need to look at the stats to know that our bullpen was garbage and that the pens in Tampa and NY were far superior. I firmly believe that if we swapped pens with one of those teams, we'd be going to the playoffs despite the injuries. To ignore the other shortcomings of this team and blame it all on injuries is a losers lament. The Mets FO blamed 2009 on injuries and they did nothing to rebuild the rotation or bullpen as the Braves and the Phillies did in the offseason, and they suffered a similar fate in 2010. If the Sox FO thinks that coming back healthy is the simple answer for 2011 is the simple answer, they will be making a mistake. They have plenty of work to do.

[BMPritchard]

Rays are very scary team' date=' if the rotation succeeds, watch out. David Price is the key to me, the Rays success will depend on how he does as the #3.[/quote']

 

Agreed, that and their lineup needs to stay consistent. Crawford needs to stop getting caught stealing, Pena with that average... 2.5 out and yanks only need 10, will be very interesting.