Fantasy Baseball League II

[italstallianion]

Nah dude. Not at all.

 

You wanted a SS, an OF and either a front-line starter or a strong closer for Zimmerman. I can't match that. You got him for a decent OF and a below average 3B.

 

And Ital, you overvalue Danks too much after pitching like an ace on April. I'm barely interested on him anymore. He's finally back to earth. He's not even at the levels of Shields, who I just traded to Dipre. In fact, I'm more than happy with the three starters I got from Dipre, so I might just keep Victorino.

 

 

 

I had gotten Choo from 26, so I no longer need Victorino either. Even with Danks struggling lately, I still wouldn't do that trade.

[diony]

Right, right.

[italstallianion]

Right' date=' right.[/quote']

 

 

 

Look, I like Victorino, I have him in my other league, and I think it was a fair deal, it just wasn't worth it for my team based on the imbalances that it would cause.

[rhet]

I would trade Steven Strasburg for a major bat - top 5. Anyone interested?

 

No offers... interesting...

[italstallianion]

Not really, I'd be surprised if there were offers.

[diony]

I did offer Ian Kinsler for Strasburgh.

[diony]

BELL trades Freddy Sanchez, SF 2B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Troy Tulowitzki, Col SS to Green Stockings

BELL trades Nick Swisher, NYY 1B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Cole Hamels, Phi SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Yovani Gallardo, Mil SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Brett Cecil, Tor SP to Green Stockings

 

26-6 trades Ryan Zimmerman, Was 3B to Joes

26-6 trades Jeff Keppinger, Hou 2B to Joes

26-6 trades Chris Coghlan, Fla OF to Joes

26-6 trades Anibal Sanchez, Fla SP to Joes

26-6 trades A.J. Burnett, NYY SP to Joes

26-6 trades Jeremy Bonderman, Det RP to Joes

26-6 trades Brett Anderson*, Oak SP to Joes

 

LOL

[italstallianion]

I did offer Ian Kinsler for Strasburgh.

 

 

 

That's actually not that bad. That's more than I'd offer.

[italstallianion]

BELL trades Freddy Sanchez, SF 2B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Troy Tulowitzki, Col SS to Green Stockings

BELL trades Nick Swisher, NYY 1B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Cole Hamels, Phi SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Yovani Gallardo, Mil SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Brett Cecil, Tor SP to Green Stockings

 

26-6 trades Ryan Zimmerman, Was 3B to Joes

26-6 trades Jeff Keppinger, Hou 2B to Joes

26-6 trades Chris Coghlan, Fla OF to Joes

26-6 trades Anibal Sanchez, Fla SP to Joes

26-6 trades A.J. Burnett, NYY SP to Joes

26-6 trades Jeremy Bonderman, Det RP to Joes

26-6 trades Brett Anderson*, Oak SP to Joes

 

LOL

 

 

 

It might take me a long time to map out everything in the trade, but it seems reasonable to me. I think that 26 wins that trade, but it's not nearly as bad as some other offers that have been put out there. One thing though, 26, are you trying to trade your entire team or something? You should wait out some of your players so you can get accustomed to what stats you need. You've made 2 huge trades recently, so you don't need to make another one for awhile.

[rhet]

I did offer Ian Kinsler for Strasburgh.

 

And I resisted the temptation to LOL you.

[rhet]

That's actually not that bad. That's more than I'd offer.

 

How absurd.

[diony]

It might take me a long time to map out everything in the trade' date=' [b']but it seems reasonable to me.[/b] I think that 26 wins that trade, but it's not nearly as bad as some other offers that have been put out there. One thing though, 26, are you trying to trade your entire team or something? You should wait out some of your players so you can get accustomed to what stats you need. You've made 2 huge trades recently, so you don't need to make another one for awhile.

 

Tulo > Zimmerman

Sanchez > Keppinger

Swisher>Coghlan

Gallardo> Anibal Sanchez

Hamels > Burnett

Cecil> Bonderman

Anderson is on the DL.

 

Reasonable.

[rhet]

It might take me a long time to map out everything in the trade' date=' but[b'] it seems reasonable to me.[/b] I think that 26 wins that trade, but it's not nearly as bad as some other offers that have been put out there. One thing though, 26, are you trying to trade your entire team or something? You should wait out some of your players so you can get accustomed to what stats you need. You've made 2 huge trades recently, so you don't need to make another one for awhile.

 

Oh?

He's packaging Zimmerman with flotsam and jetsom hoping someone will give him two or three studs in return.

[diony]

And I resisted the temptation to LOL you.

 

Chill dude, it's one start.

[diony]

If he throws in Cain and Zobrist, then that's reasonable.

[italstallianion]

How absurd.

 

 

 

It could have been worse, I could have told you to suck my balls when you wanted a top 5 bat. But I didn't, but now since the s*** has been hitting the fan lately...

[italstallianion]

Tulo > Zimmerman

Sanchez > Keppinger

Swisher>Coghlan

Gallardo> Anibal Sanchez

Hamels > Burnett

Cecil> Bonderman

Anderson is on the DL.

 

Reasonable.

 

 

 

I said that he'd win the trade, and compared to 26's offer of Markakis, Utley, and Street for Eckstein, Werth, and Fukodome, his offer to you is reasonable.

 

Look, I never said it was a great offer, and you'd certainly lose it but I didn't think it was that bad.

[Dipre]

It's a s***** offer. 26 usually throws around offers like that to spark negotiations and show the players he's interested in. Saying it's not an extremely s***** offer is delusional.

[italstallianion]

Oh well, then I guess I'm delusional. I agree with the consensus that 26 wins that trade, but I don't think it's by as big of a margin as everyone else sees it.

[Dipre]

BELL trades Freddy Sanchez, SF 2B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Troy Tulowitzki, Col SS to Green Stockings

BELL trades Nick Swisher, NYY 1B to Green Stockings

BELL trades Cole Hamels, Phi SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Yovani Gallardo, Mil SP to Green Stockings

BELL trades Brett Cecil, Tor SP to Green Stockings

 

26-6 trades Ryan Zimmerman, Was 3B to Joes

26-6 trades Jeff Keppinger, Hou 2B to Joes

26-6 trades Chris Coghlan, Fla OF to Joes

26-6 trades Anibal Sanchez, Fla SP to Joes

26-6 trades A.J. Burnett, NYY SP to Joes

26-6 trades Jeremy Bonderman, Det RP to Joes

26-6 trades Brett Anderson*, Oak SP to Joes

 

LOL

 

Oh well' date=' then I guess I'm delusional. I agree with the consensus that 26 wins that trade, but I don't think it's by as big of a margin as everyone else sees it.[/quote']

 

 

Hamels, Gallardo, Cecil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Burnett, Sanchez, Bonderman, Anderson (who is injured).

 

Tulowitzki, Swisher>>>>Zimmerman, Keppinger, Coghlan.

 

He throws these types of offers around to spark trade conversation. Not a big deal.

[italstallianion]

It depends on the person. Sometimes it would spark conversation, other times it would make the person not want to trade with you. For example, when 26 offered me Werth, Eckstein, and Fukodome for Markakis, Utley, and Street, instead of counter offering, I wanted to block his email address and never open a future offer from him. And it seems like Diony is having the same reaction that I am. I don't think that it's a wise technique from 26 because it'll earn him an undeserved bad reputation.

[Dipre]

It depends on the person. Sometimes it would spark conversation' date=' other times it would make the person not want to trade with you. For example, when 26 offered me Werth, Eckstein, and Fukodome for Markakis, Utley, and Street, instead of counter offering, I wanted to block his email address and never open a future offer from him. And it seems like Diony is having the same reaction that I am. I don't think that it's a wise technique from 26 because it'll earn him an undeserved bad reputation.[/quote']

 

Well since i read when he explained that he did that and why before i made my first deal with him, it's not an issue for me.

[26 to 6]

It might take me a long time to map out everything in the trade' date=' but it seems reasonable to me. I think that 26 wins that trade, but it's not nearly as bad as some other offers that have been put out there. One thing though, 26, are you trying to trade your entire team or something? You should wait out some of your players so you can get accustomed to what stats you need. You've made 2 huge trades recently, so you don't need to make another one for awhile.[/quote']

No I know, I was just more-so mainly being sarcastic with that offer. We're both very far apart on how we value Zimmerman, and considering I JUST got him, I'm not going to cave in and take an offer that's less than representative of his worth. I have no problems keeping him at all though.

 

Chill dude, it's one start.

This is another example of what I'm talking about when I say you are very different in the way in which you value players in fantasy baseball. If I were rhet, and I had gotten that offer, I probably would have been somewhat insulted. The way you (not "YOU" specifically, but in general) value players in fantasy is different than in reality, or even like a video game type platform; where you're building a franchise or something, in that in fantasy you simply assess what the player is presently doing NOW, or in the immediate past or future. You look at the numbers and see who's hot and who's playing well this season, and who has improved and fallen off throughout the season, and how a particular player addresses your team's needs....as well as to a lesser degree short-term projections. You're not worried about how the player will fit into the organization 3, 4, 5 years from now and their arbitration, free agency, contract extension, chemistry, etc. The players on a fantasy team in no way have any influence on a team's performance beyond themselves and how they perform. When you rejected most of my counters I bet you didn't even look at all of the numbers, splits, etc. The Rolen deal I first came to you with was more than fair, but you instead requested Zimmerman replace Rolen, without offering much more to compensate in the significant gap that exists between the two of them.

 

So you can continue to badmouth my offers all you want, but you haven't even brought anything fair to the table yourself. And on another note, not necessarily just directed at you diony, but I've always been under the impression and thought of it as sort of breaking an unwritten rule, or breaking etiquette to publicize all of the specifics of any type of negotiations, not just in fantasy sports but even in general. Now that I know some of you're tendencies and behaviors I'll be sure to keep them in mind during any possible future negotiations.

[26 to 6]

I said that he'd win the trade, and compared to 26's offer of Markakis, Utley, and Street for Eckstein, Werth, and Fukodome, his offer to you is reasonable.

 

Look, I never said it was a great offer, and you'd certainly lose it but I didn't think it was that bad.

Hey I was drunk when I made that offer to you , because I definitely didn't mean to ask for Utley. I have him in another league and he's sucking dick this season. I can't practically give him away, so being that he's a "cant-drop" player he just clutters up my bench lol.

 

But to be fair I don't remember the specifics surrounding that offer when I sent it....I remember seeing you say it was the worst offer you've ever gotten so I went back to look and see what it was, because I honestly didn't even remember at the time, and I laughed my ass off when I saw it lol. That's a different story, the situation was a little different lol. If I recall correctly I just randomly sent that, I don't believe we were involved in any ongoing negotiations at the time haha.

 

Also if I remember correctly, David Eckstein was on a pretty hot streak at the time. ;p;

[26 to 6]

Hamels, Gallardo, Cecil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Burnett, Sanchez, Bonderman, Anderson (who is injured).

 

Tulowitzki, Swisher>>>>Zimmerman, Keppinger, Coghlan.

 

He throws these types of offers around to spark trade conversation. Not a big deal.

The difference in the situation though is that I wasn't trying to spark anything. We had been having ongoing discussions, but his requests were ridiculous. Scott Rolen was worthless to him, and it seemed like he saw Zimmerman as like an average, knock-around type player comparable to the Jorge Cantu's, Mike Lowell's, and Aubrey Huff's of the world. He doesn't seem to value him with the same regard as I do, as one of the elite young players in the game at his position, with possibly a very bright future (possible HOF type of career?) ahead of him. That trade was more of a reaction to one of his unsatisfactory offers, although I did include what players on each side that I would be interested in including in a package either way, just obviously not that match-up.

[diony]

No I know' date=' I was just more-so mainly being sarcastic with that offer. We're both very far apart on how we value Zimmerman, and considering I JUST got him, I'm not going to cave in and take an offer that's less than representative of his worth. I have no problems keeping him at all though.[/quote']

The offer was an insult, you overvalue your players and under-valuate mines, typical.

 

This is another example of what I'm talking about when I say you are very different in the way in which you value players in fantasy baseball. If I were rhet, and I had gotten that offer, I probably would have been somewhat insulted.

 

Ian Kinsler for Stephen Strasburgh is not a bad offer. Especially for guy with pitching depth and a black hole in 2B like rhet. That's as good of an offer as you'll see for Stras on any league. And it was like a week before his first start.

 

The way you (not "YOU" specifically, but in general) value players in fantasy is different than in reality, or even like a video game type platform; where you're building a franchise or something, in that in fantasy you simply assess what the player is presently doing NOW, or in the immediate past or future.

 

That's not how you evaluate players. So you say I should overpay for a player like Rolen just because he's hot now? Remember Kelly Johnson? I lol'd my ass off when you traded Polanco to Dipre instead of Johnson, who you dropped like two weeks later. I wouldn't be surprised if you drop Rolen in a month.

 

That's why you sold low on Werth, when he's OPSing 1.000 in a month, I'm gonna quote this post.

 

The Rolen deal I first came to you with was more than fair, but you instead requested Zimmerman replace Rolen, without offering much more to compensate in the significant gap that exists between the two of them.

 

It was like Swisher, Hamels and Sanchez for Rolen. Fair? No thanks.

[26 to 6]

Ian Kinsler for Stephen Strasburgh is not a bad offer. Especially for guy with pitching depth and a black hole in 2B like rhet. That's as good of an offer as you'll see for Stras on any league. And it was like a week before his first start.

Well I obviously didn't know the background behind your offer, or when it was made. But either way, I wouldn't think twice about accepting that offer if I were rhet. I would have wanted you to maybe add another piece or 2 to sweeten the deal.

 

That's not how you evaluate players. So you say I should overpay for a player like Rolen just because he's hot now? Remember Kelly Johnson? I lol'd my ass off when you traded Polanco to Dipre instead of Johnson, who you dropped like two weeks later. I wouldn't be surprised if you drop Rolen in a month.

 

That's why you sold low on Werth, when he's OPSing 1.000 in a month, I'm gonna quote this post.

I'm not asking you to overpay for anyone, but instead of simply looking at the individual player and their worth, look at the packages on both sides overall and how they balance each other out, and also how they improve and address your team's needs overall. Not go and just decline because one player included in the offer on my side may not be as good as a player (or in some cases a multiple players) on your side. I always try to address needs and balance my offers out with the complementary players.....it's a lot easier to match up with somebody on a package of players than it is on just one particular player.

 

As for Johnson/Polanco, Polanco got off to a really hot start out of the gate and I didn't think he would keep it up, so I decided to sell high and try and move him. I didn't think he would keep that pace all season, and he hasn't. In hindsight do I wish I would have maybe kept him? Definitely (just like in hindsight I wish I wouldn't have released Hughes when he was being skipped the first 2 or 3 times through the order to start the season). It was a risk I took than didn't pay off. At the time I thought Johnson would remain more consistent than Polanco throughout the course of the entire season, so I figured I would hang onto him. Obviously it didn't work out, but because baseball is such a streaky game, it's hard to project every little thing. I'm not the only one to ever make a regrettable deal. I'm still debating whether or not I regret making either of the trades that I've recently made. But when it comes down to it, a lot of it has to do with risks and sacrifices. You're not gonna get a good player unless you give up a good one in return, just like you're not going to get a superstar without giving up another great player in return. Different teams match up differently, and we just happen to not match up well right now. No big deal.

 

It was like Swisher, Hamels and Sanchez for Rolen. Fair? No thanks.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the entire offer.

[diony]

Well I obviously didn't know the background behind your offer, or when it was made. But either way, I wouldn't think twice about accepting that offer if I were rhet. I would have wanted you to maybe add another piece or 2 to sweeten the deal.

 

 

I'm not asking you to overpay for anyone, but instead of simply looking at the individual player and their worth, look at the packages on both sides overall and how they balance each other out, and also how they improve and address your team's needs overall. Not go and just decline because one player included in the offer on my side may not be as good as a player (or in some cases a multiple players) on your side. I always try to address needs and balance my offers out with the complementary players.....it's a lot easier to match up with somebody on a package of players than it is on just one particular player.

 

As for Johnson/Polanco, Polanco got off to a really hot start out of the gate and I didn't think he would keep it up, so I decided to sell high and try and move him. I didn't think he would keep that pace all season, and he hasn't. In hindsight do I wish I would have maybe kept him? Definitely (just like in hindsight I wish I wouldn't have released Hughes when he was being skipped the first 2 or 3 times through the order to start the season). It was a risk I took than didn't pay off. At the time I thought Johnson would remain more consistent than Polanco throughout the course of the entire season, so I figured I would hang onto him. Obviously it didn't work out, but because baseball is such a streaky game, it's hard to project every little thing. I'm not the only one to ever make a regrettable deal. I'm still debating whether or not I regret making either of the trades that I've recently made. But when it comes down to it, a lot of it has to do with risks and sacrifices. You're not gonna get a good player unless you give up a good one in return, just like you're not going to get a superstar without giving up another great player in return. Different teams match up differently, and we just happen to not match up well right now. No big deal.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the entire offer.

 

My 2nd round pick for Stephen Strasburgh wasn't fair? Jesus christ.

 

And about the Polanco/Johnson, there are statistics that can help you project players over the course of a season. Dipre knows them, seems like you don't.

 

I undervaluate Zimmerman? And you undervaluate Swisher.

 

If Rolen is so good, why not trading Zimmerman instead. I mean, check Rolen numbers they're better than Zimmerman. Hell, he has a better OPS than Longoria. All that matters is what he's doing NOW, right?

[Dipre]

You guys are f***ing ridiculous.

[rhet]

My 2nd round pick for Stephen Strasburgh wasn't fair? Jesus christ.

 

Kinsler is having a bad year. His value is way down, regardless of what round you drafted him.

 

Strasburg's value is high. Maybe this is his ceiling, maybe not. He's certainly more valuable than a slumping middle infielder.