Schilling: Sign Beckett -- Now

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STVM_forum/fv-green-popcorn.gif

 

Pass around the bucket. There's plenty to go around!

[example1]

a700, in terms of the product on the field I prefered them signing Werth over signing Crawford. I prefered them signing one of them to them signing neither of them. I'm happy with Crawford and, as I said numerous times before the signing, look forward to watching him play. He's an exciting player and aesthetically I prefered him. I figured Werth would sign for fewer years and for less money and that the Yankees and Angels would be in on Crawford that would drive up the price. A random enormous over-pay to Werth sidetracked that from happening.

 

Anyone who has been around here for longer than 3 weeks knows that you regularly bash this FO and their general approach to constructing a team, as well as those (like myself) who carry water for the broader vision that they have had. It wasn't until they spent an ungodly amount of money--made possible only by moves you didn't support--that you were happy. You are feeling extra gloaty right now because the move you wanted happened.

 

If you expect that signings like Crawford and Gonzalez are going to be a regular occurance, that Theo and co., finally understand the plight of those who spend lots of money on their team and who complain when things don't go their way, I think you are in for a rude awakening. This will be THE big move for the next few years. The next time they let a good FA walk or pass on an available relief pitcher for the equivalent of the next Casey Kelly you will be complaining like you always do.

 

I can see it now. "They passed on a pitcher like David Aardsma in a stretch drive to hold onto a minor leaguer who hasn't sniffed AA yet. Everyone thinks this Ranaudo guy is going to be an ace, well, let me tell you, I've been watching this team since before Yaz was a regular and I've seen prospects come and go. There isn't a prospect in the world that is worth what David Aardsma could bring to this team right now..." and on and on.

 

Hence the reminder about trading Pedroia and Lester for Dontrelle. Or trading Youkilis for Helton.

 

We have all made stupid points here, you just seem to be gloating more than is warranted than is justified by your history of missing the mark. Stopped clocks shouldn't celebrate when they are right twice daily, should they?

[a700hitter]

Incorrect. Wanting it to happen is not the same as saying it will happen. The only thing I remember you saying about it happening is that it was more likely to happen than signing Manny' date=' which nobody really disagreed with. You never "predicted" this signing.[/quote']When things get petty, I know you will always throw in. Howdy! You are right that I didn't make an outright prediction. What I did was identify it as the correct and best move for the Sox to make, and I maintained on a daily basis that it was a possibility for the FO. Those are two things that almost no one else did. Some people liked Crawford better than Werth, but even they did not post about it being a possible move by the FO.

[a700hitter]

a700, in terms of the product on the field I prefered them signing Werth over signing Crawford. I prefered them signing one of them to them signing neither of them. I'm happy with Crawford and, as I said numerous times before the signing, look forward to watching him play. He's an exciting player and aesthetically I prefered him. I figured Werth would sign for fewer years and for less money and that the Yankees and Angels would be in on Crawford that would drive up the price. A random enormous over-pay to Werth sidetracked that from happening.

 

Anyone who has been around here for longer than 3 weeks knows that you regularly bash this FO and their general approach to constructing a team, as well as those (like myself) who carry water for the broader vision that they have had. It wasn't until they spent an ungodly amount of money--made possible only by moves you didn't support--that you were happy. You are feeling extra gloaty right now because the move you wanted happened.

 

If you expect that signings like Crawford and Gonzalez are going to be a regular occurance, that Theo and co., finally understand the plight of those who spend lots of money on their team and who complain when things don't go their way, I think you are in for a rude awakening. This will be THE big move for the next few years. The next time they let a good FA walk or pass on an available relief pitcher for the equivalent of the next Casey Kelly you will be complaining like you always do.

 

I can see it now. "They passed on a pitcher like David Aardsma in a stretch drive to hold onto a minor leaguer who hasn't sniffed AA yet. Everyone thinks this Ranaudo guy is going to be an ace, well, let me tell you, I've been watching this team since before Yaz was a regular and I've seen prospects come and go. There isn't a prospect in the world that is worth what David Aardsma could bring to this team right now..." and on and on.

 

Hence the reminder about trading Pedroia and Lester for Dontrelle. Or trading Youkilis for Helton.

 

We have all made stupid points here, you just seem to be gloating more than is warranted than is justified by your history of missing the mark. Stopped clocks shouldn't celebrate when they are right twice daily, should they?

Lots of rationalizing and sour grapes going on here. There's also a hypothetical situation complete with a prediction of my reaction. Of course you can read my mind. Why not, you thought you could read Theo's mind too. How weak. You also went back to the archives for more of my greatest hits of 2005. Around the same time (2005-2006) didn't you predict that Wily Mo Pena would team up in a platoon with some other guy for 35 HRS and 121 RBI?:dunno:

 

Edit: At least i have been right recently.

 

BTW: To give the Dontrelle Willis issue some context, the Yankees were rumored to be interested in getting him at that time. One of our more erudite posters thought at that time that Hughes and Tabata would not be enough to get Willis:

 

Florida's payroll is ~$15M. They aren't hurting for $$. Usually $$ is included when a big market club is dumping a high $$ underperformer. The Yankees have plenty of those' date=' but I doubt any of them appeal to the Marlins. Cano and Wang are the only 2 MLB ready guys that Florida would want. Hughes and Tabata are their two best high-ceiling prospects (Duncan is off the radar since he's stinking up the joint in AAA -- .209/.279/.255, no homers). [b']I don't think Hughes and Tabata would be enough,[/b] and losing either of Cano or Wang weakens the current team. They can't get Willis without hurting their chances this year.

[example1]

Alright a700, those who have been paying attention know the score.

[ORS]

When things get petty' date=' I know you will always throw in. Howdy! You are right that I didn't make an outright prediction. What I did was identify it as the correct and best move for the Sox to make, and I maintained on a daily basis that it was a possibility for the FO. Those are two things that almost no one else did. Some people liked Crawford better than Werth, but even they did not post about it being a possible move by the FO.[/quote']

While I agree that things have gotten petty, there's nothing petty in what I posted. It's just an observation of the inaccuracy of something being portray as fact during the pettiness.

 

Yes, you absolutely identified this as the best move to make in your opinion. Since there are no results on the field by which to judge this claim, I think assigning right/wrong credit at this point is a bit premature, but that's just me.

[BSN07]

So the Beckett vs Lee debate is going to be the s*** tossing grease fire this off season huh? lol

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

No s*** greese talking here Lee is your winner. The arguing here has been who was right and who was wrong.

[BSN07]

No s*** greese talking here Lee is your winner. The arguing here has been who was right and who was wrong.

 

The "right and wrong" is what I was referring to the grease fire as. Trust me. I have been here for awhile.

 

There is one topic EVERY off season that turns into a well let's call it a heated debate. This debate, although in the early stages, is heading down that path. Add personal opinions+ polarizing topic(one side or the other, not much middle ground)+ slow time of year usually= an over debated topic that can't truly be answered at this time and a lot of people butt hurt when their opinions aren't taken as the only possible answer to the debate. Which will devolve into name calling and boo hooing, Yeszir will come in and issue warnings/temporary bans. Jacko and a few other Yankee posters will come in and pick up the scraps and after a couple weeks of everyone cooling off/off doing their own thing, it will be time for Pitchers and Catchers to report. This is pretty much the status quo from right after X-mas- P&C reporting

[a700hitter]

Alright a700' date=' those who have been paying attention know the score.[/quote']That's right. If they have been paying attention, they would know that those who professed to know Theo's Philosophy and have the ability to predict the moves Theo would make or not make were full of it. None of you saw the Crawford deal as a possibility, because according to that group, it would have been so "un-Theo-like." I have no idea what Theo is going to do, because I don't sit in on their business meetings. I do have opinions about moves that would improve the team. Sometimes I am right. Sometime I am wrong. The same goes for Theo. He swung and missed on Lugo and Renteria. He also was saved from a big swing an a miss in 2006 when the Mets turned down his offer of Manny for Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman , and Petit. Thank goodness the Mets overestimated their prospects and they were too cheap to pay Manny. That trade would have cost the 2007 Championship.

 

What you don't get is that I've been tweaking the wannabe GM's, because they, like me, don't have a clue what the FO will actually do. Here's a newsflash for you: There is no score. This is an opinion forum, but if there was a score, I'd be kicking your ass this off season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hey a700 - Its your pick on the draft FYI.

[a700hitter]

While I agree that things have gotten petty, there's nothing petty in what I posted. It's just an observation of the inaccuracy of something being portray as fact during the pettiness.

 

Yes, you absolutely identified this as the best move to make in your opinion. Since there are no results on the field by which to judge this claim, I think assigning right/wrong credit at this point is a bit premature, but that's just me.

Regarding the bold portion of your post, I fully realize this. If Crawford bombs, it will be interesting to see if Theo gets criticized. I know that I will be mocked, but the FO ballwashers will find a way to exonerate Theo. That should be hysterical. Of course , if the move works out, everyone will say that they always knew it would be a great move. You are big into pointing out hypocrisy, so I am sure you will spot it.

[Dojji]

and who cares.

[a700hitter]

and who cares.

Not me.

[BSN07]

Theo did what he was supposed to here. Whether it turns out good or bad is irrelevant as far as blame goes. He filled a position if need with 1 out of the 2 best players available. He has no reason to think that Crawford won't be a good player going forward. I haven't see any GM, scout or reporter call for Crawford to fall off a cliff performance wise. And I don't see any reason to see why he would. If Crawford bombs, it's not the FO fault. It's Crawfords, and Crawfords alone.

[a700hitter]

Theo did what he was supposed to here. Whether it turns out good or bad is irrelevant as far as blame goes. He filled a position if need with 1 out of the 2 best players available. He has no reason to think that Crawford won't be a good player going forward. I haven't see any GM' date=' scout or reporter call for Crawford to fall off a cliff performance wise. And I don't see any reason to see why he would. If Crawford bombs, it's not the FO fault. It's Crawfords, and Crawfords alone.[/quote']Not mine?

[example1]

None of you saw the Crawford deal as a possibility' date=' because according to that group, it would have been so "un-Theo-like." I have no idea what Theo is going to do, because I don't sit in on their business meetings. [/quote']

 

Spending 100m on a player IS un-Theo-like. First time it has happened. Please forgive some of us for thinking they would look for alternative options.

[Dipre]

Spending 100m on a player IS un-Theo-like. First time it has happened. Please forgive some of us for thinking they would look for alternative options.

 

They had another option. His name was Jayson Werth, but then he signed the stupidest contract this side of Barry Zito and all of a sudden Crawford began to make a whole lot of sense. You'll never get him to admit that Crawford was the back-up plan, not the main option, and that Theo hasn't "subscribed" to his philosophy, yet the man speaks of pettiness.

[a700hitter]

They had another option. His name was Jayson Werth' date=' but then he signed the stupidest contract this side of Barry Zito and all of a sudden Crawford began to make a whole lot of sense. You'll never get him to admit that Crawford was the back-up plan, not the main option, and that Theo hasn't "subscribed" to his philosophy, yet the man speaks of pettiness.[/quote']You will not get Theo to make that admission either. You are just pulling this stuff from nowhere. If Werth was the primary target, did they make him an offer? After Werth signed his ridiculous offer, you made no such statement that it might cause the Sox to go for Crawford nor did you even infer that he might fall into the hands of the Sox. It was your position that the Werth signing inflated Crawford's cost and put him further out of the Sox range. Crawford certainly didn't fall into the laps of the Sox, because we had to pay around $25 million more than the Angel's offer. You are giving me a good laugh, but what would I know, according to you I was on drugs for thinking the Crawford signing was a responsibility.

 

Edit: If you read an earlier post of mine today, I said that I don't know what moves Theo will make, but it is very clear that neither do the FO wannabes.

[a700hitter]

Spending 100m on a player IS un-Theo-like. First time it has happened. Please forgive some of us for thinking they would look for alternative options.

He spent $104 million on Dice K, and only a week before the Crawford signing, he was willing to commit about $150 million to AGon. You and others have been projecting your own philosophies to Theo. Clearly, you were wrong.

[VA Sox Fan]

Not mine?

 

Really? No one gives you that much credit. Relax and take a deep breath and know when to f***ING STOP for GOD'S sake. Wake up and "get it" for once in your Talksox life. Please.

[Will617]

You will not get Theo to make that admission either. You are just pulling this stuff from nowhere. If Werth was the primary target' date=' did they make him an offer?[/quote']

 

Actually, when Boras received the Nationals' offer, he didn't even bother calling other teams to ask if they would match. I think that, if the Sox wanted to make Werth their top target, they would wait a little while given the timing of the A-Gon and Crawford moves.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Really? No one gives you that much credit. Relax and take a deep breath and know when to f***ING STOP for GOD'S sake. Wake up and "get it" for once in your Talksox life. Please.

 

Damn, V.A snappin' haha.

[VA Sox Fan]

Damn' date=' V.A snappin' haha.[/quote']

 

 

It doesn't matter. He WILL NOT give up.

[a700hitter]

Damn' date=' V.A snappin' haha.[/quote']She wants me.

[VA Sox Fan]

She wants me.

 

No Way EVER. But thanks...I guess...

[a700hitter]

Actually' date=' when Boras received the Nationals' offer, he didn't even bother calling other teams to ask if they would match. I think that, if the Sox wanted to make Werth their top target, they would wait a little while given the timing of the A-Gon and Crawford moves.[/quote']The point that I was making was that there is absolutely no evidence that Werth was the top target of the FO. We merely have a few posters projecting their own opinion onto the FO.

[a700hitter]

No Way EVER. But thanks...I guess...

Thank you.

[example1]

He spent $104 million on Dice K' date=' and only a week before the Crawford signing, he was willing to commit about $150 million to AGon. You and others have been projecting your own philosophies to Theo. Clearly, you were wrong.[/quote']

 

I got the information from Epstein himself. http://audio.weei.com/a/35893454/theo-epstein-and-sam-kennedy-sit-down-with-mustard-and-johnson.htm

 

He says multiple times that this was the first time they have spent $100m on a player. They haven't done it yet with Gonzalez. Matsuzaka's deal can't be used as precident. Most of that money didn't go to him and didn't count against the cap. Theo appropriately separates them. You know this and would be more intellectually honest if you did too.

 

I know you're just having a good time though, getting some of us razzed up while you finally embrace that the FO as possibly knows what they are doing. I've been saying that for awhile. :thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

I got the information from Epstein himself. http://audio.weei.com/a/35893454/theo-epstein-and-sam-kennedy-sit-down-with-mustard-and-johnson.htm

 

He says multiple times that this was the first time they have spent $100m on a player. They haven't done it yet with Gonzalez. Matsuzaka's deal can't be used as precident. Most of that money didn't go to him and didn't count against the cap. Theo appropriately separates them. You know this and would be more intellectually honest if you did too.

 

I know you're just having a good time though, getting some of us razzed up while you finally embrace that the FO as possibly knows what they are doing. I've been saying that for awhile. :thumbsup:

I forgot that the first $52 million on Matsuzaka wasn't real money.

 

As for the FO doing a good job, you always make this into a black and white case. I've posted this thought over and over again. On balance this FO has done a very good job IMO. They have had missteps along the way. Lugo, Renteria, and Wily Mo to mention a few. I neither like nor dislike the individuals in the FO. I judge them based on the moves that they make. This off season I have really, really liked what they have done. You and others are not big fans of the Crawford move. I don't accuse you of hating Theo or being unduly critical of the FO, because you don't like the move. You have your reasons for being skeptical about the deal. What I find amusing is the thought that Theo has a shared philosophy with certain message board posters. We can all play a game of guessing what they will do, but we are not behind the scenes, and their strategy clearly changes from year to year. This year they saw big value in expensive FA acquisitions, and the Crawford move is a move that I touted while you and others scoffed at it.