Roberto Alomar Misses HOF election by 8 votes

[Emmz]

Is it just me or does anyone else not care in the slightest if any of these guys ever make it?

 

Me being a Twins fan, it's pretty sad to see someone like Blyleven miss the cut every season. It was a lot like when Jim Rice kept on getting snubbed.

[The_Destroyah]

I think in some ways its more difficult to be good for a long time than it is to be amazing for 4-5 years, IMO Blyleven was great for a long time and personally I think thats good enough, Longevity is what makes some people great and Blyleven managed to stay great over a long period of time with real s***** teams, I personally think his achievments are good enough, and when I take my kid to the HOF and he asks "Wasn't Bert Blyleven awesome?" Ill say "yes Deuce, yes he was, anyone who can be that much of a work horse and maintain such a level of consistency is amazing, especially when they manage to have a 3.31 ERA over a 22 year career."

[Emmz]

Look at Hank Aaron, he was never at any point, really, the best player in baseball, except for maybe early in his career.

 

He never hit 50 home runs, and only hit 45 or more twice. He just consistently hit about 35 or 40 through the majority of career. It's staying power. Bert Blyleven built his career similarly.

[rhet]

Look at Hank Aaron, he was never at any point, really, the best player in baseball, except for maybe early in his career.

 

He never hit 50 home runs, and only hit 45 or more twice. He just consistently hit about 35 or 40 through the majority of career. It's staying power. Bert Blyleven built his career similarly.

 

Hank Aaron was among the best three players in the game for over 20 years. He was an MVP and finished in the Top-10 in MVP voting an amazing 14 times! He was a 21 time All Star. He led the league multiple times in hits, runs, HRs, RBIs, BA, slugging, and OPS. He led the league in total bases 8 times. In short, he was great, both in his overall stats and when compared to his peers.

 

Blyleven made a grand total of 2 All Star teams in 22 years. He was pretty good for a long time, but comparing him to Hank Aaron is silly.

[a700hitter]

Look at Hank Aaron, he was never at any point, really, the best player in baseball, except for maybe early in his career.

 

He never hit 50 home runs, and only hit 45 or more twice. He just consistently hit about 35 or 40 through the majority of career. It's staying power. Bert Blyleven built his career similarly.

I'm old timey. I saw him pitch as a rookie. To this day I have not seen a better curve ball. If someone threw a better curve, he stopped throwing it in 1966-67 when I starting watching baseball.

[Emmz]

Koufax had a mean curve, from what I heard, and Nolan Ryan is said to have had a really nice curve too, but everyone always says that Bert may very well have had one in the same league.

 

What's ironic, though, is that it was also his worst pitch. He would hang it up in the zone sometimes, and he game up a shitload of homers. But last I checked, didn't Cy Young have the most losses recorded? Doesn't Brett Favre have the most interceptions? That shouldn't go against him. He's still one of the best pitchers of the 70's and 80's.

[Emmz]

Hank Aaron was among the best three players in the game for over 20 years. He was an MVP and finished in the Top-10 in MVP voting an amazing 14 times! He was a 21 time All Star. He led the league multiple times in hits' date=' runs, HRs, RBIs, BA, slugging, and OPS. He led the league in total bases 8 times. In short, he was [b']great[/b], both in his overall stats and when compared to his peers.

 

Blyleven made a grand total of 2 All Star teams in 22 years. He was pretty good for a long time, but comparing him to Hank Aaron is silly.

 

I'm sorry, but using all-star games isn't the right way to make the argument, nor is MVP or Cy Young votes.

 

Those are just what it's said, votes. Hank Aaron built his legacy on consistent greatness, and if you can't see that Bert Blyleven did as well, then I guess we just don't see things the same way. 3.3 ERA over 22 seasons? That's pretty impressive in my book, no matter how you want to spin it with his lack of All Star Games or Cy Young awards. Didn't Hank Aaron make the All Star Game when he was 41, and hit a grand total of 12 homers and had .687 OPS?

[rhet]

I always felt the HOF was for great players.

Bert Blyleven was not a great player.

 

I always considered Early Wynn, Jim Bunning and Phil Neikro the worst pitchers in the HOF.

If Blyleven gets in, he'll own that distinction.

[Emmz]

I always felt the HOF was for great players.

Bert Blyleven was not a great player.

 

I always considered Early Wynn, Jim Bunning and Phil Neikro the worst pitchers in the HOF.

If Blyleven gets in, he'll own that distinction.

 

If anything, Bert Blyleven is better than all of the players you just mentioned. He WAS a great player. He was one of the ten best pitchers of the 1970's probably. A run of about 8 years of not having an ERA above 3? How is that not great? Help me to understand that. Everyone seems to disagree with you.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Blyleven deserves to make it. If the numbers are any indication, he will next year. He's creeping up to the cutoff, and barely missed it this year. I'd vote for him.

[rhet]

Well, he's not in yet. So there are still some voters who might agree with me.

 

I'd like to see the age split of the voters. I suspect those who vote for him are younger.

[Emmz]

I'd suspect that the ones who didn't vote for him are guys who think the 300-game winners should automatically win it. He's 13 shy of that, and you've yet to use statistics to back your claim as to why he shouldn't be in the hall.

 

22 years, 3.31 ERA. Sorry, that's pretty great, especially considering that he was amongst the most notable workhorses of his day, thorugh 22 years at that.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Not to mention his number of shutouts and strikeouts. He absolutely deserves the honor. He's the only pitcher with 3000 Ks not in the HOF. That is unbelievable.

[Emmz]

One of the best points you could make. And Blyleven had 3,700 K's.

[rhet]

He's the Harold Baines of pitchers.

 

Maybe Harold will get in on his 15th try.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I can't wait until Craig Counsell retires. He's a shoe-in for sure.

[Emmz]

His batting stance alone should get him in.

[Dipre]

He's the Harold Baines of pitchers.

 

Maybe Harold will get in on his 15th try.

 

Bert Blyleven compared to other HOF pitchers:

 

I'm going to take guys who won 300 games but had comparable stats. (Decided against it and went for Hunter)

 

Bert Blyleven:

 

22 seasons, 287-250, 3.31 ERA, 118 ERA+, 4970 IP, 1.198 WHIP, 3,701 K's.

 

Steve Carlton:

 

24 seasons, 329-244, 3.22 ERA, 115 ERA+, 4672 IP, 1.247 WHIP, 4,136 K's. If Carlton is in, Blyleven should be in.

 

Catfish Hunter:

 

15 seasons, 224-166, 3.26 ERA, 104 ERA+, 3449 IP, 1.13 WHIP, 2012 K's. If Hunter is in, Blyleven should be in.

 

When you take into account the era differences, the DH league, and the superiority of Blyleven compared to his peers, it seems fairly obvious to me that he's a hall of famer. This is strictly opinion though.

[Emmz]

But it's opinion backed with stats and comparisons. Blyleven and Carlton, while Carlton is often considered to be among the greatest ever, are two very comparable players. Similar WL records, similar ERA's, similar WHIP, similar IP, similar K's.

 

It's pretty simple. You put Bert in the HOF.

[Keeper]

Blyleven also compares favorably with Robin Roberts.

[Dipre]

Blyleven also compares favorably with Robin Roberts.

 

And Ferguson Jenkins as well, who he is statistically superior in a number of areas, and comparable in all the others. Main difference? W-L %. and 25 CG's.

[Emmz]

So, let's get this straight. Tons of guys who are in, and are comparable to Blyleven, and Blyleven may actually have an edge on some of these guys, but Blyleven gets snubbed?

 

He really, really needs to get in.

[a700hitter]

But it's opinion backed with stats and comparisons. Blyleven and Carlton, while Carlton is often considered to be among the greatest ever, are two very comparable players. Similar WL records, similar ERA's, similar WHIP, similar IP, similar K's.

 

It's pretty simple. You put Bert in the HOF.

...and Carlton pitched almost his entire career in the NL without facing DH's. Pitching in the AL in the 70's and 80's added to pitchers' ERAs just as it does today.

[Emmz]

Yup. Imagine if he pitched in the NL? Bert probably had an ERA much lower.

 

I simply don't see how he's not in HOF. I think everyone here agrees on that too.

[rician blast]

It's probably not just you. My wife doesn't care either' date=' but she doesn't care about the Hot Stove Season either, so what's your point?[/quote']

 

 

If you're not just being antagonistic and did actually miss the point....then i can't be bothered to explain. so never mind.

[a700hitter]

If you're not just being antagonistic and did actually miss the point....then i can't be bothered to explain. so never mind.

You are such a tease.

[rhet]

...and Carlton pitched almost his entire career in the NL without facing DH's. Pitching in the AL in the 70's and 80's added to pitchers' ERAs just as it does today.

 

This is the most persuasive argument I've seen.

 

On a different note, can anyone make a case for Harold Baines or Dwight Evans now that Andre Dawson and Jim Rice are in?

[Emmz]

This is the most persuasive argument I've seen.

 

On a different note, can anyone make a case for Harold Baines or Dwight Evans now that Andre Dawson and Jim Rice are in?

 

I believe this argument has been used a few pages back, too, though...

 

ERA's have been inflated in the American League since the beginning of the DH Rule.

[riverside sluggers]

I'd suspect that the ones who didn't vote for him are guys who think the 300-game winners should automatically win it. He's 13 shy of that, and you've yet to use statistics to back your claim as to why he shouldn't be in the hall.

 

22 years, 3.31 ERA. Sorry, that's pretty great, especially considering that he was amongst the most notable workhorses of his day, thorugh 22 years at that.

 

5th all time in strikeouts should also stamp his name in the HOF

[Mr Crunchy]

Having the luxury of watching Carlton, Hunter and BB thruouth their entire careers you cant compare BB against the other 2.The other 2 guys were Aces, champions and were the horses on some great teams.

BB on the other hand was tossed around like the fat chick at the keg party and put #s up for many years that simply didnt matter..His best 4 years were in the early/mid 70s and he was essentially a .500 pitcher thru that entire time frame...He was durable but beatable, he threw a ton of Ks but a ton of Hrs too....On raw #s alone I suspect you can make a good case for him but he only won 20 once and that came with of 325 IP and 9 shut outs and he still lost 17 games that year.

Plus he gets caught with the nail file??

The Hall is a f***ing joke without Pete Rose in it so I dont get anxious about BB being in it but based on raw #s alone then ya, I suspect he should get in because we wont be seeing any more 300 game winners after RJ and Clemens come up.....

Jack Morris was a better pitcher, no contest hands down Jack Morris was so money compared to BB.

Alomar was THE best 2nd basemen in the game,Ryne Sandberg couldnt carry his jock and hes in.

Alomar had the spitting incident which is well remembered by the sports writers but how can you have Enos Slaughter and Sandberg and Ozzie Smith in the Hall without Alomar?....

Sports writers are a vindictive bunch..Dirty ****ing vindictive f***s.