Yankees sign Nick Johnson to 1 yr deal

[jacksonianmarch]

Which is exactly why this yr is so critical Dipre. He had his yr to be inconsistent. He threw more innings than he ever had and if you go by organizational development schemes, he should be good to approach the 200IP mark this yr. Hell, Joba was MADDENINGLY inconsistent in both stuff, location and endurance. He'd have innings where he was topping out at 89 and throwing a lollypop slider and other innings where he was throwing 96mph and a dynamite slider. And the funny thing is, some of those innings would be in the beginning of the game and some later. I truly think he can only build on last season. It is actually critically important that he does. I think the same from Buchholz and I think Hughes has an inconsistent but above average yr as the yankees #5.

[Emmz]

I did above. Hughes has proven his stuff can be absolutely shut down in short stints and that he is inconsistent out of the starter's role. Buchholz hasnt relieved before' date=' but he has also shown he's inconsistent out of the starter's role. Lets be honest here. All three of these pitchers have ceilings as aces. The question is, endurance and development. They all lack in both categories.[/quote']

 

Buchholz has more experience, and has shown he can pitch as a starter in the majors, Phil Hughes hasn't really, at all. While he is consistent, he's atleast proven at the major league level as a starter.

[Spudboy]

I actually gave you a reason, though. Ellsbury makes some great catches, but his defensive metrics show that for 2009, he was not a very good CFer. Could it be a fluke? Yes. Could it be an error in the evaluation. Always possible. But his UZR was horrible. Kinda like saying Jeter has deserved all of his GG's. There have been tons of better defenders when Jeter won his GG's, but the popularity and the flair plays out more than consistency.

 

On to ORS. Per usual, he uses no attempt to debate, just to flame. Now, if I go on a rampage calling someone a douchebag, I have a feeling, I'd be banned for a few days. I did not. I even gave ORS a chance to rebut, he did not. Here is the deal, it is difficult to debate that NY is anything but superior to Boston for 2010. When that topic is brought up and the comparisons are brought to light, some just cannot handle it. ORS fits into that category. He's been nothing but an inflammatory troll since the yankees won the WS with everyone, sox and yankee fans alike. I for one, am sick of it.

 

The first paragraph makes a lot of sense and, in fact, saves me some time. I won't have to point out the obvious. However, the post you made earlier today did not in anyway convey what you have said here. Yes, you made reference to an obvious flaw in Ellsbury's game. Nothing new there. We should all be able to see he is not the greatest defensive outfielder - yet.

 

No, your earlier post seemed to serve no purpose other than do denigrate a Sox player that was being acknowledged for perceived superior effort. This , I believe, was an unnecessary comment. And, quite honestly, beneath someone who apparently knows so much about the game.

 

I have no problem with your Yankee "Bias". In fact, I embrace it. I loud anyone who has passion for the game. Especially people who seem to know more than I do about the game.

 

But therein lies the rub. With respect, comes responsibility. Your post about Ellsbury followed by your response to criticism to your assessment of the Johnson signing is inconsistent with your substantial knowledge of the game and apparent intellect.

 

Hence, my disappointment.

 

As far as your dispute with ORS goes, well, I just wish maturity would prevail.

[Dipre]

I did above. Hughes has proven his stuff can be absolutely shut down in short stints and that he is inconsistent out of the starter's role. Buchholz hasnt relieved before' date=' but he has also shown he's inconsistent out of the starter's role. Lets be honest here. All three of these pitchers have ceilings as aces. The question is, endurance and development. They all lack in both categories.[/quote']

 

However, Bucholz has showed more than Joba in the endurance department last year. That should be taken into account.

[Gom]

ORS is a douche. Dipre is a douche. Jacko is a douche. Emmz is...well not smart enough to be a douche, but she makes up for it in effort.

 

How much of a douche the person is to you is dependent on your fandom.

[Dipre]

Which is exactly why this yr is so critical Dipre. He had his yr to be inconsistent. He threw more innings than he ever had and if you go by organizational development schemes' date=' he should be good to approach the 200IP mark this yr. Hell, Joba was MADDENINGLY inconsistent in both stuff, location and endurance. He'd have innings where he was topping out at 89 and throwing a lollypop slider and other innings where he was throwing 96mph and a dynamite slider. And the funny thing is, some of those innings would be in the beginning of the game and some later. I truly think he can only build on last season. It is actually critically important that he does. I think the same from Buchholz and I think Hughes has an inconsistent but above average yr as the yankees #5.[/quote']

 

You're basically saying Joba should improve, but so should Bucholz and Dice-K, which brings us back to square one. They are both more "sure things" than Hughes or Joba.

[italstallianion]

ORS is a douche. Dipre is a douche. Jacko is a douche. Emmz is...well not smart enough to be a douche, but she makes up for it in effort.

 

How much of a douche the person is to you is dependent on your fandom.

 

 

 

And your intelligence (or lack thereof)...

[Dipre]

ORS is a douche. Dipre is a douche. Jacko is a douche. Emmz is...well not smart enough to be a douche, but she makes up for it in effort.

 

How much of a douche the person is to you is dependent on your fandom.

 

Weren't you talking yesterday about "baseball discussion" while i wasn't here?

 

This is your typical contribution while i wasn't here too. Please, grow up.

[Emmz]

This message is hidden because Gom is on your ignore list.

 

wat?????

[Gom]

I forgot...italstallion is a huge douche.

 

All I'm seeing in this thread is how everyone is a douche. I was making an observation. ORS, as usual, doesn't like what Jacko says, so he calls him an idiot. It escalates from there.

 

Go back to the beginning of the thread, but it started with ORS. I'm just pointing out facts.

 

As it is, I am not sure this deal makes any sense when you could have had Matsui for 1-1.5 million more.

 

Haha...Emmz put me on her ignore list. What a f***ing baby...

[Dipre]

So even though Bucholz was clearly superior last year, and you know of all the confounders for his situation (altered mechanics) you still fail to muster up a logical process that will allow you to reach the conclusion that, in fact, your comparison holds no validity, specially considering the fact that you are dishonestly using Joba's dominant stint as a setup man to aid your argument when we are comparing them as starting pitchers:

 

Over 257.2 IP as a starter, Joba Chamberlain has a 3.91 ERA, not 3.61, as you state. You should attempt not to be so intellectually dishonest.

 

I actually made a mistake here, fueled by wrongfully assuming Joba had started all of his games in 2008, when he only threw 65 IP as a SP.

 

His actual line is a 4.31 ERA as a starter with a 1.48 WHIP.

[Emmz]

That's a significant difference from 3.61...

[Spudboy]

Hey Gom, what is the purpose of your last two posts?

[italstallianion]

I forgot...italstallion is a huge douche.

 

All I'm seeing in this thread is how everyone is a douche. I was making an observation. ORS, as usual, doesn't like what Jacko says, so he calls him an idiot. It escalates from there.

 

Go back to the beginning of the thread, but it started with ORS. I'm just pointing out facts.

 

As it is, I am not sure this deal makes any sense when you could have had Matsui for 1-1.5 million more.

 

Haha...Emmz put me on her ignore list. What a f***ing baby...

 

 

 

I had you on my ignore list, but then again I needed your stupid comments to cheer me up throughout the day. The economy may be in the shitter and my sports teams aren't doing terribly well, but one thing I can always count on is GOM being on the bottom of the totem pole and finding new ways to amuse me.

[Emmz]

Lol, it's hilarious how Gom can call someone out for being confrontational, when he's being more confrontational than they are, and escalating a fight that had already died down. He's what? 37 years old? It's time to start acting like it. You're the guy who made a thread about "toning it down", and here you are inciting a major fight. It's called consistency, Gom.

[italstallianion]

Lol' date=' it's hilarious how Gom can call someone out for being confrontational, when he's being more confrontational than they are, and escalating a fight that had already died down. He's what? 37 years old? It's time to start acting like it. You're the guy who made a thread about "toning it down", and here you are inciting a major fight. It's called consistency, Gom.[/quote']

 

 

He's 37?!?!?!?!? Seriously?

[riverside sluggers]

Buchholz has thrown a total of 190.2IP in the majors spread across 3 seasons. His career ERA is 4.91 and his career WHIP is 1.50 and his career K.9IP is 7.6. Joba has thrown 281IP in the majors over 3 yrs. His career ERA is 3.61' date=' career WHIP is 1.38 and his K/9 is 9.1. Gloss over it all you want. Prior to the time when they started monkeying around with him in August, Joba put up a very solid line. Buchholz also put up a solid line in his 92IP of big league work. Both have the stuff. One has pitched a full yr as a starting pitching. One has not. And, prior to 2009, Joba had a very successful stint as a SP. It is ALL about the endurance and the capacity to repeat the delivery for 150-200IP. Both have had troubles with that. Joba just has gotten more reps against the big boys.[/quote']

 

If not for Buchholz this past season, Sox dont even sniff the wild card

[Emmz]

He's 37?!?!?!?!? Seriously?

 

He's in the 30+ crowd, I know that. I thought he was closer to 40 than 30, too.

[yankees228]

I realize this thread isn't about Nick Johnson anymore, but it should be, so lets talk about him. While I like what Johnson can bring to the table offensively, I'm in agreement with Gom. Johnson, essentially, is just going to be a DH. If he could play outfield, this would make more sense to me, but he can't. They could have brought back Matsui in the same role, at only a slightly higher price.

 

The only way this would make sense to me is if they approached Matsui about coming back, but not only playing about 100 games, or so, and he declined. Then they moved onto Johnson. However, if they plan on making Johnson their DH for almost all the games, then this makes no sense to me.

[Dipre]

I realize this thread isn't about Nick Johnson anymore, but it should be, so lets talk about him. While I like what Johnson can bring to the table offensively, I'm in agreement with Gom. Johnson, essentially, is just going to be a DH. If he could play outfield, this would make more sense to me, but he can't. They could have brought back Matsui in the same role, at only a slightly higher price.

 

The only way this would make sense to me is if they approached Matsui about coming back, but not only playing about 100 games, or so, and he declined. Then they moved onto Johnson. However, if they plan on making Johnson their DH for almost all the games, then this makes no sense to me.

 

Maybe there's more than meets the eye about the state of Matsui's knees.

[jacksonianmarch]

I actually made a mistake here, fueled by wrongfully assuming Joba had started all of his games in 2008, when he only threw 65 IP as a SP.

 

His actual line is a 4.31 ERA as a starter with a 1.48 WHIP.

 

4.11ERA as a starter

[yankees228]

Maybe there's more than meets the eye about the state of Matsui's knees.

 

Certainly a possibility. Obviously, as a fan, we can't know these things, so just going on what I know, I don't think this makes sense. However, I do acknowledge that Matsui's knees might be the reason.

[Dipre]

4.11ERA as a starter

 

You are correct, typo on my part.

 

Still: 4.11=/=3.61.

 

Just sayin'.

[jacksonianmarch]

You're basically saying Joba should improve' date=' but so should Bucholz and Dice-K, which brings us back to square one. They are both more "sure things" than Hughes or Joba.[/quote']

 

I didnt say that DiceK should improve. I said that if he is healthy, then he's better than all of the guys above. But, there is no way to tell if he will be.

 

In terms of Buchholz, Hughes, and Joba, all of them should improve. The question is, who improves the most over the shortest period of time. I think Hughes has the most to prove since he is fresh out of essentially a full yr in the pen. Joba has the least to prove, since he was a starter for the whole yr, and up until the end, was an above average SP in the major leagues. Buchholz is in the middle, since his performance over a smaller sample size also indicated that he was an above average pitcher in the bigs. All 3 of these guys should improve IMO. The question is, who will be the first to take a giant leap. Picking any of the above three is bias only since no fact is available

[jacksonianmarch]

Certainly a possibility. Obviously' date=' as a fan, we can't know these things, so just going on what I know, I don't think this makes sense. However, I do acknowledge that Matsui's knees might be the reason.[/quote']

 

I think it is easier to say that a 30 yr old who just played a full yr in the field should be more durable than a 36 yr old who had to stick to DH for the entire yr due to bilateral bad knees. I know Johnson's injury history, but his most recent run has been more bad luck than anything else. Broken femur from a collision, fractured facial bones, etc. Early on in his career, it was recurrent wrist issues, but those seem to have subsided.

[Dipre]

I didnt say that DiceK should improve. I said that if he is healthy, then he's better than all of the guys above. But, there is no way to tell if he will be.

 

In terms of Buchholz, Hughes, and Joba, all of them should improve. The question is, who improves the most over the shortest period of time. I think Hughes has the most to prove since he is fresh out of essentially a full yr in the pen. Joba has the least to prove, since he was a starter for the whole yr, and up until the end, was an above average SP in the major leagues. Buchholz is in the middle, since his performance over a smaller sample size also indicated that he was an above average pitcher in the bigs. All 3 of these guys should improve IMO. The question is, who will be the first to take a giant leap. Picking any of the above three is bias only since no fact is available

 

 

It's not bias. I didn't say you said Dice should improve. I did. Because he should.

 

When we talk about which couple of starters would be more of a "sure thing" we're talking about the ability to produce at the higher level, anyone except you would probably take Buch-Dice-K over Joba and Hughes.

 

It's that simple, even with all of the issues the four of them face, it's fairly easy to see that a full productive season out of the Boston pair is more likely than the Yankee pair.

 

Where's the bias again?

 

This is not meant to be a dismissive or inflammatory post, he's entitled to his opinion, but seriously........

[Imperial59]

The inevitable comparison, might as well start it. Strictly offense now...

 

1. Jeter vs Ellsbury- Jeter, no question

2. Johnson vs Pedroia- Push- Pedroia offered a bit more power in 2009, but Johnson crushed him in OBP, which as a 2 hitter is probably more important than SLG

3. Teixeira vs Martinez- Tex, no question

4. Rodriguez vs Youkilis- Push. Youk had a slightly better yr in 2009, but ARod has a clean bill of health now and after his initial adjustment period (which was his ST since he was hurt), nobody was better

5. Posada vs Ortiz- Push. Ortiz sucked in the first 2 months while Posada was as consistent as they come. Career, Ortiz is the better hitter and both are due to decline as age becomes a factor.

6. Granderson vs Drew- Drew is the better OBP machine, Granderson was the better power hitter last season. Granderson brings more to the table in terms of overall game, but a .900OPS cannot be ignored

7. Swisher vs Cameron- Swisher has it. Both hit for low averages, both his 20+ homers and both K a ton. Swisher is more versatile as a switch hitter and hits for a little more power and walks a little more.

8. Cano vs Kotchmann- Cano by a lot

9. Cabrera vs Scutaro- Push. The battle for the tallest midget is on. Neither should be expected to be offensive forces. Scutaro comes off the better offensive yr, but Cabrera is 9 yrs younger and has more offensive potential. Regardless, their questionmarks offset each other to a push

 

lol the "inevitable" comparison that you just "might as well" start... trolling at it's finest

 

The Yankees have the better offense, there's no debating that. But the Red Sox have the better rotation and defense.

[yankees228]

I think it is easier to say that a 30 yr old who just played a full yr in the field should be more durable than a 36 yr old who had to stick to DH for the entire yr due to bilateral bad knees. I know Johnson's injury history' date=' but his most recent run has been more bad luck than anything else. Broken femur from a collision, fractured facial bones, etc. Early on in his career, it was recurrent wrist issues, but those seem to have subsided.[/quote']

 

Alright, well, I guess it's logical to think that it had something to do with concern over Matsui's health. Lets hope it works out.

[jacksonianmarch]

How do they have the better defense? Enlighten me. NY was one of the best defenses in baseball last yr, and all they did was see ARod get healthy and add a solid starting CFer. The only argument you have there is if the age suddenly catches up to all of the defenders in one yr. Other than that, you dont have one.

[Emmz]

I didnt say that DiceK should improve. I said that if he is healthy' date=' then he's better than all of the guys above. [b']But, there is no way to tell if he will be[/b].

 

In terms of Buchholz, Hughes, and Joba, all of them should improve. The question is, who improves the most over the shortest period of time. I think Hughes has the most to prove since he is fresh out of essentially a full yr in the pen. Joba has the least to prove, since he was a starter for the whole yr, and up until the end, was an above average SP in the major leagues. Buchholz is in the middle, since his performance over a smaller sample size also indicated that he was an above average pitcher in the bigs. All 3 of these guys should improve IMO. The question is, who will be the first to take a giant leap. Picking any of the above three is bias only since no fact is available

 

Then by this logic, Nick Johnson is not better, or even a push wish Dustin Pedroia. THAT, my friend, is bias.