Mike Lowell traded to Texas, Max Ramirez to Boston (Deal is off)

[TheKilo]

Morgan Freeman has a soothing voice.

 

And he built the Batmobile.

[redsoxrules]

Now I could be wrong but I think Mr. Rhet is trying to make a point.

 

I know he is , but I'm just wondering why he judges players differently

[TheKilo]

I know he is ' date=' but I'm just wondering why he judges players differently[/quote']

 

I think he's being sarcastic dude.

 

As for this deal, I like it, but don't love it. Not wild about Adrian Beltre but it's not as bad as everyone will make it seem.

 

Lowell must really have been damaged goods if we had to pay $9 million to get Max Ramirez, a guy who had a lot of potential but whos shine wore off last year.

[TheMino007]

Didn't Rameriz bat close to .300 last year with close to .400 OBP? I know the guy has a knock on him for not being a defensive catcher, but if we do need him he'll be the 1st base/ DH type. I would be surprised and to be honest pissed if I ever saw this guy play for the Sox. I hope he would be a chip that is part of a package for Gonzazelz or Cabrera. Adrian Beltre isn't the answer heading into next season playing 3B for this team. His OBP has gone down the shitter over the years, and thats something you can't blame on playing at Safeco, neither can can his struggles against RHP.

[TheKilo]

No, he didn't. This type of stuff takes 30 seconds to look up:

 

.230/.318/.334/.653

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=ramire001max

[SoxSport]

I read Ramirez had wrist problems last year at AAA, and that probably affected his hitting there. He has hit well in Venezuela so he is probably healthy again. They are checking out his wrists now, one of the things holding up the deal.

 

I noticed the media has forgotten about the Scutaro signing (Yahoo sports; Trade Rumors), which occurred just before the winter meetings, in their listing of winter meeting deals. Scutaro was a major FA signing. The Red Sox seem more intent in doing their diligence rather than making big media splashes like the NY teams. Does Bay really want to play for the Mets? We'll see.

[SCM33]

What does Theo want?

 

He preaches OB% and OPS and talks about how great JD Drew is and that his numbers are not measured in traditional baseball numbers Avg/HR/RBI (which I agree, although I bash the contract every now and then), then he targets a player who has awful on base numbers who hasnt had an on base % above .328 in the last five seasons who was, when all things considered a disappointment in Seattle.

 

Every year, its frustrating. One year we go defense at SS, then offense, which didnt pan out, then we go back defense, then offense, then on base skills, then defense blah blah blah blah.

 

Make up your mind Theo, what is your philosophy....his philosophy is like New England weather.

[Gom]

If I was the Red Sox, I would forget Beltre. I would go after Bengie Molina, move Vmart to 1st, and Youk to 3rd.

 

That gives you an amazing catcher, which is more important than an amazing third baseman [defensively]

[yankees228]

If I was the Red Sox, I would forget Beltre. I would go after Bengie Molina, move Vmart to 1st, and Youk to 3rd.

 

That gives you an amazing catcher, which is more important than an amazing third baseman [defensively]

 

I didn't know you felt that way about catcher defense Gom.

[Dojji]

If I was the Red Sox, I would forget Beltre. I would go after Bengie Molina, move Vmart to 1st, and Youk to 3rd.

 

That gives you an amazing catcher, which is more important than an amazing third baseman [defensively]

 

There are certainly catchers I'd go to for defense before I went to Bengie Molina.

[yankees228]

There are certainly catchers I'd go to for defense before I went to Bengie Molina.

 

This is also true. A man's last name only takes him so far.

[Spudboy]

What does Theo want?

 

He preaches OB% and OPS and talks about how great JD Drew is and that his numbers are not measured in traditional baseball numbers Avg/HR/RBI (which I agree, although I bash the contract every now and then), then he targets a player who has awful on base numbers who hasnt had an on base % above .328 in the last five seasons who was, when all things considered a disappointment in Seattle.

 

Every year, its frustrating. One year we go defense at SS, then offense, which didnt pan out, then we go back defense, then offense, then on base skills, then defense blah blah blah blah.

 

Make up your mind Theo, what is your philosophy....his philosophy is like New England weather.

 

Way to go SCM. Your post reveals what most Sox fans feel. What is going on?

 

Well, I have my opinion. I've stated it before. The Sox corporate objective is not winning the W.S., Wild card, or er even 95 games.

 

It all comes down to R.O.I..

 

Return On Investment.

 

Make money.

 

Create and reinforce the perception that the team is championship driven and fill the seats.

Sell advertising. Sell anything Red Sox branded.

 

Greed is good.

 

Welcome to Friendly Fenway. America's most beloved ballpark.

[riverside sluggers]

A few more numbers to chew on...

 

Beltre's OBP against right handed pitchers:

2006 .321

2007 .314

2008 .290

2009 .271

Oh, and for what it's worth, he slugged .335 and had 30 RBIs in 339 PAs against righties last year.

 

This past season was the smallest amount of games he has played since 1998, also an injury marred season. Hard to judge him on the 2009 season, just as it was wrong for fans to judge Mike Lowell's hellish 2005 season

 

Id still take Beltre over the Sox just giving up and hand Casey Kotchman a starting job

 

Still holding out for a Cabrera/Gonzalez trade, but thats a pipe dream as Theo has a full grasp on his coveted prospects. The Hanley Ramirez trade is something he opposed, but was on hiatus when it happened

[example1]

I don't know why people are questioning what is going on in Theo's mind, or calling for some type of inconsistency between his like of JD Drew and of Adrian Beltre.

 

Beltre may have a s***** OBP, but he's averaged 3.5 WAR over the past 4 seasons. During that same time (Lowell's time in Boston), Lowell has averaged 3.2 WAR. Beltre's contribution comes very strongly from the defensive side of the ball, but it has been there consistently throughout his career--even when his bat sucks.

 

Again, I don't love Beltre but I don't see obvious better answers since Beltre is a type B. The key, for me, is a 3 year deal at the most, perhaps with options. If the Sox are going to take decent-non-stars as FAs they need to not end up being a burden on their finances. Otherwise it will just be another sunk contract by the 3rd or 4th season.

[Gom]

So you guys paid [or will pay] $19 million for 0.3 WAR?

 

Wow...

[Dojji]

He's kinda got a point... Although I don't think Lowell was going to produce 3.2 WAR next year for us.

[BSN07]

So you guys paid [or will pay] $19 million for 0.3 WAR?

 

Wow...

 

It's a difference of 6.5M lunch box, plus they get Ramirez. You work for a bank? Really?

[SoxSport]

With the Red Sox in the mix and Boras the agent, I expect Beltre to get $11-12 mil. Epstein is on a defense kick in the infield, so I expect they will pay a premium for Beltre. And he is sure to hit better in Fenway. His down numbers last year were shoulder-related, anyways. Youks to 3B I see as a last resort. I do not see AdGon in the picture at all. He isn't on the market and would cost Buchholz, and then they are back to square one needing a Lackey.

 

Lusting after cheap young superstars who are not on the market is not something GMs should waste their time on, in my view. It's like trying to buy a house that isn't for sale. The cost tends to be prohibitive. The time to buy something is when somebody wants to get rid of it. Even when you might not need it for awhile.

 

What is being overlooked is the defensive situation at catcher. Last year, teams stole bases at will against the Red Sox. Probably due to a combination of factors. That will have to change this year. Whether VMart does it, or the pitchers do--the wholesale stealing has to be reduced. That's part of the infield defense, too.

[BSN07]

It would be stupid to give more the Figgins AAV. Unless it was a 1 or 2 year deal.

[Dojji]

That doesn't fly. It's easy enough to point out that Figgins is playing a corner IF position without a ton of power and use Beltre's perennial 25 HR's to get him past Chone as an earner.

[jacksonianmarch]

I just dont see Beltre over Lowell enough of an upgrade to justify eating 9 million and then offering 10+ mil per yr for Beltre. His defense is very good, but he doesnt fix their gaping hole in their lineup.

[riverside sluggers]

The gaping hole is left by Bay, not Lowell. I wouldnt doubt Beltre giving a 25 HR/100 RBI season while playing half his games in Fenway. If they get Bay or Holliday, nothing but gravy

[rhet]

Another number to chew on...

 

Beltre has 0 HRs in 67 career plate appearances at Fenway.

And his BA is below the Mendoza line.

 

While this is in all likelihood a statistical anomoly, I wouldn't be so sure he'll improve on his Seatlle numbers by moving to Fenway.

[Dojji]

Again I say -- don't rule out Ramirez himself being the guy we "bring in" to replace Lowell. He's more than talented enough. We have a Mientkiewicz type to help cover any defensive problems he or VMart would have at first, so as long as he hits, I think we could likely get away with it. Ramirez, too, would be a RHH in Fenway after all.

[rhet]

I know he is ' date=' but I'm just wondering why he judges players differently[/quote']

 

That's the point. I'm not judging them differently --- you are.

[redsoxrules]

That's the point. I'm not judging them differently --- you are.

 

how so?

 

I never said anything about wanting him on the sox

 

I merely pointed out your arguments about him

[ORS]

No, you are assuming he is because he challenged your methodology. I don't think rsr has supported signing Beltre on this forum.

[rhet]

Certain players fall down on run production, like Drew. And certain players lack the skill to get on base, like Beltre.

[rhet]

how so?

 

I never said anything about wanting him on the sox

 

I merely pointed out your arguments about him

 

Sorry, I lumped you in with the pro Beltre crowd. My mistake.

[laxtonto]

Been out of the loop for a while...

 

 

On Max Ramirez..

 

Lets start with the fact that yes he had two injured wrist most of last season. That really hampered his ability at the plate.

 

With that out of the way, Maxamillo has some severe issues. Enough to have him knocked into the 13-18 range in a deep Texas system.

 

First off, his ability to defend behind the plate has not improved. The plan was to keep him in AAA and let him work on is footwork, defense and game calling abilities and make him fringe average defensively behind the dish. He foot work never improved last year and some people thought his abilities behind the dish as a whole regressed. Most likely he is a 1B/DH guy. He does not have the athleticism to play the OF and, unfortunately, he is pretty short and will not make a great 1B.

 

Second major area of concern should be the rumblings scouts have had on him being a bad ball or mistake hitter and that his swing is a little slow or long. Combine those characteristics with the wrist troubles and you see why his numbers fell so far. I would be afraid that he might not be able catch up with a MLB fastball. He is a guy that really needs to be scouted hard.

 

The thing with Ramierez is that unless you have absolute faith in his bat, he may be a non-prospect if he can't stick at C. He is a guy that might be just good enough to captivate everyone when he gets on a hot streak but not quite good enough to be an everyday regular. I really doubt that he is either the C or DH of the future. Lets not forget that unless he rocks with the bat next year he is a potential non-tender candidate due to his age and lack of position.

 

As far as dealing Lowell and eating 9M for him?

 

Not a horrible move id the team thinks that Beltre is the best FA option for this year or next year on the FA market at 1B/3B. It is better to treat Lowell as a sunk cost and improve the team this year and fill the potential hole for next year now instead of trying to fill that hole in a weaker FA market.

 

The big bats are really not going to be available in FA next year. The time frame in which prominent FA reach the market has shifted due to the craze of locking guys up through arbitration and beyond and so there is going to be a "hole" in the market as it adjusts. Not a huge fan of Ramirez but without knowing who else is on the table there is no way to judge.

 

My biggest concern will be if Texas keeps dragging this out to get something else in the deal in hopes that the Sox will panic. I would not be surprised to see some Beltre to "X" rumors here soon just to see if Theo gets antsy