Mike Lowell traded to Texas, Max Ramirez to Boston (Deal is off)

[rhet]

Having safeco as a home and how the lineup has been erratic for the Mariners, Id say he put respectable numbers. This past season saw him limited to just 111 games, his lowest total since the 1998 season in LA. Most of his career, hes averaged 150 or more games

 

In Seattle

 

2005- 19 HRs, 87 RBIs

2006- 25 HRs, 89 RBIs

2007- 26 HRs, 99 RBIs

2008- 25 HRs, 77 RBIs

 

 

Those numbers are meaningless. His .317 OBP the past five years tells you all you need to know.

[rhet]

Wow' date=' I take back my question, you just are that daft.[/quote']

 

Nice logic.

[riverside sluggers]

Are you daft?

He's a joke offensively. Have you bothered to look at his performance outside of Safeco? He's a chump, a pathetic offensive performer who struck it rich for one year on roids.

 

Ive referenced his career home/road split stats before. On the road is considerably better than home games at Dodger Stadium and safeco

[Dojji]

Everyone acts like Mike Lowell was a freaking AS when he came here. He was a throw in for F sakes!

 

Nice one.

 

Actually, he was a three-time all star when he came here. He also won a gold glove, a Silver Slugger, and a world Series ring. If he was really just a throw-in, Lowell was the bargain of the century.

 

We got him partly because Florida wanted to shave salary, and partly because Miguel Cabrera was ready, which meant Florida was ready to turn him into prospects. He'd also had multiple excellent offensive and defensive years as a Marlin. Sure he was coming off a bad year, but no one was under any illusion that the guy wasn't a good rebound candidate.

 

Now Beltre on the other hand... well do I honestly need to go there? The difference in track records is pretty stark. All Beltre really has going for him was one good season 5 years ago and a bit of pop during his hot streaks. The volatility is much greater than Lowell's was, the downside is quite a bit greater, and Beltre has a ton more miles on his body than Lowell did in 2005 at the same age. He's also coming off an elbow surgery, last year coinciding with a huge drop in power which should frankly scare the heck out of people.

 

I think we'd be better, wiser, to go in a different direction. Either trade for Miggy or sign LaRoche. I think the regional sale of Rolaids around New England won't increase as much that way.

[redsoxrules]

Those numbers are meaningless. His .317 OBP the past five years tells you all you need to know.

 

LOL, this is very hilarious comming from you

 

remember the Drew argument ? you were saying over and over on how he sucks because his RBI's total were low and that his OBP is useless? remember that ?

 

I'm quite shocked actualy that you dont like beltre cause his HR and rbi totals are pretty good witch is what you like

 

care to explain ?

[BSN07]

Nice one.

 

Actually, he was a three-time all star when he came here. He also won a gold glove, a Silver Slugger, and a world Series ring. If he was really just a throw-in, Lowell was the bargain of the century.

 

We got him partly because Florida wanted to shave salary, and partly because Miguel Cabrera was ready, which meant Florida was ready to turn him into prospects. He'd also had multiple excellent offensive and defensive years as a Marlin. Sure he was coming off a bad year, but no one was under any illusion that the guy wasn't a good rebound candidate.

 

Now Beltre on the other hand... well do I honestly need to go there? The difference in track records is pretty stark. All Beltre really has going for him was one good season 5 years ago and a bit of pop during his hot streaks. The volatility is much greater than Lowell's was, the downside is quite a bit greater, and Beltre has a ton more miles on his body than Lowell did in 2005 at the same age. He's also coming off an elbow surgery, last year coinciding with a huge drop in power which should frankly scare the heck out of people.

 

I think we'd be better, wiser, to go in a different direction. Either trade for Miggy or sign LaRoche. I think the regional sale of Rolaids around New England won't increase as much that way.

 

I meant the season before he came to Boston, I should have been more clear, sorry. Beltre has been to an AS game(s) to I believe.

[jacksonianmarch]

Beltre is a ticket to mediocrity. You lock up that versatility that VMart and Youkilis give you by buying Beltre to play 3b and you do it for a marginal benefit while spending lots of money in the process. Beltre is a Boras guy, he's getting $10 mil a yr or thereabouts for 3+ seasons and you then deal Lowell and eat $9 million. Is having Beltre really worth $19 million in 2010? I just don't get it.

[BSN07]

Those numbers are meaningless. His .317 OBP the past five years tells you all you need to know.

You can not be serious. I'm pretty sure the Sox would want him to play GG defense and provide some pop from the RH side. Besides Lowell has put up around .340 OBP 3/4 years, and cashing in on 1 really good season.... while playing at Fenway surrounded by a deep lineup. Which means in 500 AB's, Beltre will get on base 12 times(no exact obviously) less.... OMG what the hell was I thinking....

Nice logic.

 

And yours is better? Mr. RBI?

[yeszir]

Off each other's throats.

[BSN07]

Beltre is a ticket to mediocrity. You lock up that versatility that VMart and Youkilis give you by buying Beltre to play 3b and you do it for a marginal benefit while spending lots of money in the process. Beltre is a Boras guy' date=' he's getting $10 mil a yr or thereabouts for 3+ seasons and you then deal Lowell and eat $9 million. Is having Beltre really worth $19 million in 2010? I just don't get it.[/quote']

 

DEFENSE! Obviously the Sox feel they might not be able to upgrade the offense. So it looks like they are trying to counter it with run prevention. Beltre and Youk at the Corners is better then anything they have right now. The log jam at the corners would only be for this season. The DH spot opens up after this year and the Sox could use a rotation just like the Yankees are wanting to do.

 

Beltre is not getting 10M a season. And if he does then the Sox should probably pass. I can't see any team topping Figgins deal for Beltre. Except a 1 year 12M deal or something.

[BSN07]

Off each other's throats.

 

Sometimes cutting off the oxygen supply to the brain, is the only real way to make someone see the light

[ORS]

Beltre isn't ideal, but I think the anti-Beltre crowd is guilty of two things. One, they are understating the impact of putting his swing into Fenway Park. Two, they are overstating how much the people that would support signing him like him. I don't think anyone that would be in favor of signing Beltre thinks he's "the missing piece".

 

To the first point, peruse his career hit chart at mlb.com in his player page and look at his performance in Safeco, and select HR, 2B, and FO to be shown. Draw the line where Fenway's LF fence would be (approximately). It's easy to see that his 48 HR could easily get up into the 65-70 range, while maintaing his 2B total as some of those FB turn into doubles. Does this make him a superstar? No, but without running the calculations, I could see his career home split approaching his career road split, which is a .826 OPS.

 

This isn't elite for a 3B. Not on the offensive side, but there's more to the game. Beltre is consistently one of the best defensive 3B in the game. If you were to, fairly IMO, assume a moderate increase in offense due to park, turn his defense into average to below average and add the run value to his offense, and you are talking about Troy Glaus circa 2008.

 

I can get onboard with that, but that doesn't mean I'll set my britches on fire if it doesn't happen.

[BSN07]

Beltre isn't ideal, but I think the anti-Beltre crowd is guilty of two things. One, they are understating the impact of putting his swing into Fenway Park. Two, they are overstating how much the people that would support signing him like him. I don't think anyone that would be in favor of signing Beltre thinks he's "the missing piece".

 

To the first point, peruse his career hit chart at mlb.com in his player page and look at his performance in Safeco, and select HR, 2B, and FO to be shown. Draw the line where Fenway's LF fence would be (approximately). It's easy to see that his 48 HR could easily get up into the 65-70 range, while maintaing his 2B total as some of those FB turn into doubles. Does this make him a superstar? No, but without running the calculations, I could see his career home split approaching his career road split, which is a .826 OPS.

 

This isn't elite for a 3B. Not on the offensive side, but there's more to the game. Beltre is consistently one of the best defensive 3B in the game. If you were to, fairly IMO, assume a moderate increase in offense due to park, turn his defense into average to below average and add the run value to his offense, and you are talking about Troy Glaus circa 2008.

 

I can get onboard with that, but that doesn't mean I'll set my britches on fire if it doesn't happen.

 

Sweet Christ, Thank you

[yeszir]

Beltre isn't ideal, but I think the anti-Beltre crowd is guilty of two things. One, they are understating the impact of putting his swing into Fenway Park. Two, they are overstating how much the people that would support signing him like him. I don't think anyone that would be in favor of signing Beltre thinks he's "the missing piece".

 

To the first point, peruse his career hit chart at mlb.com in his player page and look at his performance in Safeco, and select HR, 2B, and FO to be shown. Draw the line where Fenway's LF fence would be (approximately). It's easy to see that his 48 HR could easily get up into the 65-70 range, while maintaing his 2B total as some of those FB turn into doubles. Does this make him a superstar? No, but without running the calculations, I could see his career home split approaching his career road split, which is a .826 OPS.

 

This isn't elite for a 3B. Not on the offensive side, but there's more to the game. Beltre is consistently one of the best defensive 3B in the game. If you were to, fairly IMO, assume a moderate increase in offense due to park, turn his defense into average to below average and add the run value to his offense, and you are talking about Troy Glaus circa 2008.

 

I can get onboard with that, but that doesn't mean I'll set my britches on fire if it doesn't happen.

 

I always read your posts in a soothing "voice of reason" tone in my head. It's very comforting. Thank you.

[Dojji]

Beltre isn't ideal, but I think the anti-Beltre crowd is guilty of two things. One, they are understating the impact of putting his swing into Fenway Park. Two, they are overstating how much the people that would support signing him like him. I don't think anyone that would be in favor of signing Beltre thinks he's "the missing piece".

 

To the first point, peruse his career hit chart at mlb.com in his player page and look at his performance in Safeco, and select HR, 2B, and FO to be shown. Draw the line where Fenway's LF fence would be (approximately). It's easy to see that his 48 HR could easily get up into the 65-70 range, while maintaing his 2B total as some of those FB turn into doubles. Does this make him a superstar? No, but without running the calculations, I could see his career home split approaching his career road split, which is a .826 OPS.

 

This isn't elite for a 3B. Not on the offensive side, but there's more to the game. Beltre is consistently one of the best defensive 3B in the game. If you were to, fairly IMO, assume a moderate increase in offense due to park, turn his defense into average to below average and add the run value to his offense, and you are talking about Troy Glaus circa 2008.

 

I can get onboard with that, but that doesn't mean I'll set my britches on fire if it doesn't happen.

 

 

That's pretty fair, but 60 HR's? I assume you mean something like over the last 3-4 years, right?

[BSN07]

Beltre isn't ideal, but I think the anti-Beltre crowd is guilty of two things. One, they are understating the impact of putting his swing into Fenway Park. Two, they are overstating how much the people that would support signing him like him. I don't think anyone that would be in favor of signing Beltre thinks he's "the missing piece".

 

To the first point, peruse his career hit chart at mlb.com in his player page and look at his performance in Safeco, and select HR, 2B, and FO to be shown. Draw the line where Fenway's LF fence would be (approximately). It's easy to see that his 48 HR could easily get up into the 65-70 range, while maintaing his 2B total as some of those FB turn into doubles. Does this make him a superstar? No, but without running the calculations, I could see his career home split approaching his career road split, which is a .826 OPS.

 

This isn't elite for a 3B. Not on the offensive side, but there's more to the game. Beltre is consistently one of the best defensive 3B in the game. If you were to, fairly IMO, assume a moderate increase in offense due to park, turn his defense into average to below average and add the run value to his offense, and you are talking about Troy Glaus circa 2008.

 

I can get onboard with that, but that doesn't mean I'll set my britches on fire if it doesn't happen.

 

That's pretty fair' date=' but 60 HR's? I assume you mean something like over the last 3-4 years, right?[/quote']

 

He's talking about his 48 HR season(I think).

[Dojji]

Yeah, OK, but I'd rather use numbers for something within the last 3 years, especially for a guy who's 30 or older.

 

Anyway, Beltre scares the heck out of me for 3 reasons -- mileage, OBP, and last year's elbow surgery. I don't think those are unreasonable positions in opposing a signing.

[BSN07]

Yeah' date=' anyway, Beltre scares the heck out of me for 3 reasons -- mileage, OBP, and last year's elbow surgery. I don't think those are unreasonable positions in opposing a signing.[/quote']

 

Lowell scares the crap out of me.

 

1. mileage

2. range

3. hip surgery

[Dojji]

Lowell ain't here n'more. Find something else.

[ORS]

That's pretty fair' date=' but 60 HR's? I assume you mean something like over the last 3-4 years, right?[/quote']

Yeah, something like that. I said to look at his "career" performance at Safeco.

[ORS]

I always read your posts in a soothing "voice of reason" tone in my head. It's very comforting. Thank you.

You need to get a Robert Redford (think A River Runs Through It) voice over app for my posts.

[BSN07]

Lowell ain't here n'more. Find something else.

 

Did I miss something? I thought the deal wasn't finalized? You never know what snags this thing might hit before the ink is dry. And Lowell could still be manning 3B come opening day. Which is fine(I never said I wanted him out anyways, just could see the reasoning and could get behind certain moves).

[BSN07]

You need to get a Robert Redford (think A River Runs Through It) voice over app for my posts.

 

Jeremy Irons, something with a touch of an accent

[Gom]

Is this deal official yet?

 

I love it. You're going to pay $19 million this year for the right to get rid of Lowell and sign Beltre. Brilliant.

[yeszir]

Looks like it's getting there.

 

Efforts to send Mike Lowell to Texas in exchange for catcher Max Ramirez are inching along, with those involved in the transaction saying at noon that the deal is roughly 75 percent done, though there are many hurdles still to overcome.

 

http://soxblog.projo.com/2009/12/lowell-trade-to.html

[ORS]

Is this deal official yet?

 

I love it. You're going to pay $19 million this year for the right to get rid of Lowell and sign Beltre. Brilliant.

Do you like it because they are going to pay the Yankee rate for production? In that scenario, the Sox will pay about 2/3 of what the Yankees pay for their 3B, and they'll get about 2/3 the production.

[Cocos Disciples]

I always read your posts in a soothing "voice of reason" tone in my head. It's very comforting. Thank you.

 

You need to get a Robert Redford (think A River Runs Through It) voice over app for my posts.

 

I usually read ORS' posts in either a Shatner or James Earl Jones tone.

[BSN07]

Do you like it because they are going to pay the Yankee rate for production? In that scenario' date=' the Sox will pay about 2/3 of what the Yankees pay for their 3B, and they'll get about 2/3 the production.[/quote']

 

Gom: "Doh"

 

ORS: Muah..ha..ha

[yeszir]

That's it. JEJ circa Field of Dreams. (I just made that acronym up...I hope it catches on)

[BSN07]

I usually read ORS' posts in either a Shatner or James Earl Jones tone.

 

:lol: So many good choices

 

Alan Rickman with a hint of slyness(occasionally )?