Bay vs. Holliday

[jacksonianmarch]

If its just money, then its fine. But the internal options take away the desperation, especially for a position that is traditionally defense first.

[Dojji]

If its just money' date=' then its fine. But the internal options take away the desperation, especially for a position that is traditionally defense first.[/quote']

 

Then Joe Mauer will play for the Red Sox.

 

It's really that simple.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thats fine. We wont prevent the sox from trading for anyone. Hell, we wanted Schilling and Beckett, but the sox were aided by the DBags and gave up a s*** ton to the Marlins. So be it. The Yankees can make their bones in the FA market and fill some positions internally.

[jacksonianmarch]

And, I honestly think Mauer sticks with Minnesota through the season since the Twins made the playoffs without Morneau or Slowey down the stretch. Minny might value the playoff run in the new ballpark more than they value the prospects they get in return.

[BSN07]

I don't see a Mauer deal this off season, maybe an extension offer from the Twins, but that's all. Maybe if the Twins are out of it around the TDL and someone offers them a high quality package they might move him.

 

Besides that they will probably try and re-sign him or collect the picks when he goes to Boston or NY.

[bostonule25]

If the sox went into the season with Josh Reddick as their LFer' date=' would you be pissed?[/quote']

 

yes unless a a-gon/hanley type hitter comes.

 

 

 

Also guys what about Berkman? Houston has horrible farm system so thy'll defitantly be looking to sell some guys. He isnt the ultimate solution, but he would help

[example1]

Also, if the sox "just go with Reddick" then they are flat out done as a top contender in the majors unless they make a MAJOR upgrade elsewhere. Losing 36 homers and 115RBI for a slower clone of Ellsbury will be a MAJOR downgrade.

 

What makes you think he's an Ellsbury clone?

[ORS]

What makes you think he's an Ellsbury clone?

His lobotomy.

[roary]

Wouldn't an Ellsbury clone be just as fast anyway?

[example1]

The Sox have an Ellsbury clone. His name is Raymond Fuentes.

 

Reddick has hit double-digit HRs in the minors in each of the last 3 seasons. Jacoby Ellsbury has never done that in the minors.

 

Jacoby Ellsbury steals more bases than just about anyone else. Josh Reddick stole 5 bases total this year.

 

It's cool though, Austin Jackson is just a Melky Cabrera clone, without the experience.

[Dojji]

Jacko might have confused Reddick and Kalish. That's the closest thing to a sane interpretaion of his opinion I can come up with.

[TheKilo]

And when they sign Bay or Holliday there will still be a substantial gap with the Yankees that needs to be closed. And playing just for this year is not going to close it. Not to mention what sticking too long with the wrong guy will do to us. Look what it did to the Yankees over the last few years.

 

And look where signing the best free agents got the Yanks this season.

 

Oh wait.

[Dojji]

And look where signing the best free agents got the Yanks this season.

 

I wonderh ow those contracts will look in 5 years.

[TheKilo]

I'll add my two cents here. If the Sox sign neither Bay nor Holliday it will be 2006 redux, and I think the FO would actually be comfortable with that. They have tons of goodwill built over the two championships since 2007, and I think they would rather stand pat with what they have rather than overpay on a bad contract.

[example1]

Jacko might have confused Reddick and Kalish. That's the closest thing to a sane interpretaion of his opinion I can come up with.

 

I don't think you should give him an out, Doj.

 

He got it wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about, but he hoped nobody would actually read his post thoroughly. He has stated the Reddick = Ellsbury point in multiple places today and was just wrong about it.

[TheKilo]

I wonderh ow those contracts will look in 5 years.

 

One or two championships later, and it might not make a damn bit of difference.

[example1]

I'll add my two cents here. If the Sox sign neither Bay nor Holliday it will be 2006 redux' date=' and I think the FO would actually be comfortable with that. They have tons of goodwill built over the two championships since 2007, and I think they would rather stand pat with what they have rather than overpay on a bad contract.[/quote']

 

That's what I was thinking too. At the same time though, I think they can't let cheapish years of Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, etc., go. What the f*** would they be waiting to rebuild around? Would they be waiting until they had 7 guys who had come up in the system, all signed to cost-controlled contracts? It seems to me that they have the core they wanted and could immediately be in contention with an aggressive trade or two.

[example1]

One or two championships later' date=' and it might not make a damn bit of difference.[/quote']

 

It always ends up mattering in the end. How many of us are resting on the 2007 laurels? Not many of us. I've learned in the past few years that winning is a very short-lived phenomenon.

[Dipre]

I don't think you should give him an out, Doj.

 

He got it wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about, but he hoped nobody would actually read his post thoroughly. He has stated the Reddick = Ellsbury point in multiple places today and was just wrong about it.

 

Not only that, but a "Slower version" of Ellsbury.

 

I wonder how he can keep making those ******** statements, get called out on it, then come back with a worse statement than the last one, and yet have the audacity to criticize other poster's posting quality.

 

Lack of logical thought much?

[TheKilo]

That's what I was thinking too. At the same time though' date=' I think they can't let cheapish years of Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, etc., go. What the f*** would they be waiting to rebuild around? Would they be waiting until they had 7 guys who had come up in the system, all signed to cost-controlled contracts? It seems to me that they have the core they wanted and could immediately be in contention with an aggressive trade or two.[/quote']

 

They may simply want to wait a year, and explore better free agent options when they may not have any competition from the Yankees. Anyone know what the potential FA list is for next offseason?

[yeszir]

They may simply want to wait a year' date=' and explore better free agent options when they may not have any competition from the Yankees. Anyone know what the potential FA list is for next offseason?[/quote']

 

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html

 

I was just looking at it earlier. The answer to all of our problems is clearly to sign Albert Pujols since it's painfully clear that STL won't pick up his option.

[Dipre]

They may simply want to wait a year' date=' and explore better free agent options when they may not have any competition from the Yankees. Anyone know what the potential FA list is for next offseason?[/quote']

 

Potential Free Agents for 2011

The following players have contracts expiring or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2010 season.

 

* - player whose current contract includes 2011 option

 

Player Club

First Basemen

Lance Berkman HOU *

Wes Helms FLA

Jason Giambi COL

Ross Gload FLA

Paul Konerko CWS

Derrek Lee CHC

David Ortiz BOS *

Lyle Overbay TOR

Carlos Pena TB

Albert Pujols STL *

 

Second Basemen

Eric Bruntlett PHI

Willie Bloomquist KC

Mark Ellis OAK *

Esteban German TEX

Akinori Iwamura TB

Jose Lopez SEA *

Kaz Matsui HOU

Aaron Miles CHC

Freddy Sanchez SF

 

Shortstops

Alex Gonzalez BOS

Christian Guzman WAS

J.J. Hardy MIL

Omar Infante ATL *

Cesar Izturis BAL

Derek Jeter NYY

Julio Lugo STL

Jhonny Peralta CLE *

Edgar Renteria SF

Jose Reyes NYM *

Jimmy Rollins PHI *

Ramon Santiago DET

Ramon Vazquez PIT

Jack Wilson SEA

 

Third Basemen

Garrett Atkins COL

Wilson Betemit CWS

Jorge Cantu FLA

Eric Chavez OAK *

Pedro Feliz PHI

Bill Hall SEA *

Brandon Inge DET

Maicer Izturis LAA

Mike Lowell BOS

Melvin Mora BAL

Nick Punto MIN *

Scott Rolen CIN

Ty Wigginton BAL

 

Catchers

Josh Bard BOS

John Buck KC

Ramon Hernandez CIN

Gerald Laird DET

Victor Martinez BOS

Joe Mauer MIN

Miguel Olivo KC

A.J. Pierzynski CWS

David Ross ATL

Yorvit Torrealba COL

Matt Treanor DET

Jason Varitek BOS

Gregg Zaun TB

 

Outfielders

Alfredo Amezaga FLA

Pat Burrell TB

Eric Byrnes ARI

Frank Catalanotto MIL

Carl Crawford TB

Coco Crisp KC

Michael Cuddyer MIN *

David DeJesus KC *

Adam Dunn WAS

Jermaine Dye CWS

Jody Gerut MIL

Jose Guillen KC

Willie Harris WAS

Brad Hawpe COL *

Geoff Jenkins PHI

Austin Kearns WAS

Jason Kubel MIN *

Magglio Ordonez DET *

Marcus Thames DET

Jayson Werth PHI

 

Starting Pitchers

Bronson Arroyo CIN *

Josh Beckett BOS

Joe Blanton PHI

Jeremy Bonderman DET

David Bush MIL

Daniel Cabrera ARZ

Matt Cain SF *

Jorge De La Rosa COL

Jeff Francis COL *

Jon Garland LAD

Roy Halladay TOR

Aaron Harang CIN *

Tim Hudson ATL

Cliff Lee PHI

Ted Lilly CHC

Braden Looper MIL

Noah Lowry SF

Kevin Millwood TEX

Jamie Moyer PHI

Vicente Padilla LAD

Tim Redding NYM

Nate Robertson DET

Ian Snell SEA *

Jeff Suppan MIL *

Willy Tavarez CIN

Javier Vazquez ATL

Brandon Webb ARI

Jake Westbrook CLE

Dontrelle Willis DET

Chris Young SD *

 

Relief Pitchers

Jeremy Affeldt SF

Grant Balfour TB

Doug Brocail HOU

Neal Cotts CHC

Jesse Crain MIN

Scott Downs TOR

Chad Durbin PHI

Alan Embree COL

Kyle Farnsworth KC *

Pedro Feliciano NYM

Jason Frasor TOR

Brian Fuentes LAA *

Chad Gaudin NYY

Geoff Geary HOU

Jimmy Gobble CWS

Matt Guerrier MIN

Aaron Heilman CHC

Mike Lincoln CIN

Javier Lopez BOS

Seth McClung MIL

Brian Moehler HOU

Scott Proctor FLA

J.J. Putz NYM

Chad Qualls ARZ

Jon Rauch MIN

Arthur Rhodes CIN

David Riske MIL *

Mariano Rivera NYY

J.C. Romero PHI *

B.J. Ryan CHC

Bobby Seay DET

Scott Shields LAA

Brian Shouse TB

Justin Speier LAA

Huston Street COL

Matt Thornton CWS *

Luis Vizcaino CLE

Tyler Yates PIT

Tyler Walker SEA

Kerry Wood CLE *

[Spudboy]

His lobotomy.

 

:lol:

[example1]

If Pujols and Mauer are both actually FAs I can't imagine how the Sox would not try to sign both of them. Two generational talents available in the same year that the Sox lose Lowell and Ortiz... no prospects necessary. The timing seems pretty good.

 

If they didn't make a 20m+ run at both of them simultaneously I don't see them ever making such a run at anyone ever again. It is doubtful that either of these guys becomes a FA, honestly.

[bostonule25]

Piujols has a team option in the next years free agency, I think it's pretty obvious they pick it up

[BSN07]

I'll add my two cents here. If the Sox sign neither Bay nor Holliday it will be 2006 redux' date=' and I think the FO would actually be comfortable with that. They have tons of goodwill built over the two championships since 2007, and I think they would rather stand pat with what they have rather than overpay on a bad contract.[/quote']

I could see this and not be shocked about it. At a minimum this off season I hope the extend Beckett and Martinez.

If Pujols and Mauer are both actually FAs I can't imagine how the Sox would not try to sign both of them. Two generational talents available in the same year that the Sox lose Lowell and Ortiz... no prospects necessary. The timing seems pretty good.

 

If they didn't make a 20m+ run at both of them simultaneously I don't see them ever making such a run at anyone ever again. It is doubtful that either of these guys becomes a FA, honestly.

 

You never know though. If Pujols isn't available, I could see them going after Halladay and Mauer.

 

Honestly outside of Bay/Holliday, there isn't any long term situation I would like to see the Sox get themselves involved in. FA wise that is.

 

I also agree that they do have a solid core in place and could probably afford to move some of the farm to fill in spots of need.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not only that, but a "Slower version" of Ellsbury.

 

I wonder how he can keep making those ******** statements, get called out on it, then come back with a worse statement than the last one, and yet have the audacity to criticize other poster's posting quality.

 

Lack of logical thought much?

 

Because, typically, I am right when talking about the prospects, even though you guys like to pretend that I am not by using that table. Reddick has hit for some power in the minors, and should hit for more power than Ellsbury. I dont think his game translates to COF for a big market team. He looks like an average to potentially above average future CFer. But CF is blocked in Boston for the forseeable future with the above average Ellsbury (who I think has a chance to be a top 5 CFer if his patience returns) and I dont see Reddick taking a COF spot in a big market.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think you should give him an out, Doj.

 

He got it wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about, but he hoped nobody would actually read his post thoroughly. He has stated the Reddick = Ellsbury point in multiple places today and was just wrong about it.

 

I think their swings are very similar. I know he has some power and should develop more as his career goes on. My point is that Reddick does not currently profile as a COF in the majors, but with his total package, he could be a good CFer. But he is blocked. So, his value to the sox will be as a 4th OFer and will be more in trade than anything else. Plus, his debut in AAA was not terribly impressive and his overall line for 2009 in the minors...

 

.245/.317/.446 with 75K in 81G is a bit underwhelming.

 

Ellsbury clone? Yeah, probably not the right analogy. But he is a guy with good enough speed to make the plays in CF and more power than Ellsbury will have. But I dont see him having a future in Boston while Jacoby is still here. He wont be good enough to man LF or RF in Boston long term and he will be blocked in CF

[Dipre]

Because' date=' typically, I am right when talking about the prospects, even though you guys like to pretend that I am not by using that table. Reddick has hit for some power in the minors, and should hit for more power than Ellsbury. I dont think his game translates to COF for a big market team. He looks like an average to potentially above average future CFer. But CF is blocked in Boston for the forseeable future with the above average Ellsbury (who I think has a chance to be a top 5 CFer if his patience returns) and I dont see Reddick taking a COF spot in a big market.[/quote']

 

You'd be "typically" right if you'd stop your obvious, blatant, and annoying bias.

 

Thanks.

[jacksonianmarch]

Instead of calling me biased, debate my point. Go on, I am waiting